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So who's the savior?
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robstones
Posted 2011-08-15 3:53 PM (#526180)
Subject: So who's the savior?



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Now that the debates and everything have started, who's the savior? The country is getting ready to elect another president. Obama hasn't begun campaigning, but who's going to run against him? Who would win? Who is going to get us out of this mess?
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Mjolnir
Posted 2011-08-15 4:51 PM (#526183 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Curtis
Posted 2011-08-15 8:28 PM (#526193 - in reply to #526183)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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I had one of my usual long responses but deleted it. I just don't care enough anymore. I'll just say that I'm sick & tired of saviors. I'm sick & tired of "leaders." I'm sick & tired of federal representatives who aren't actually that but want to act like oligarchs & a modern nobility. I'm sick & tired of being told we need to sacrifice when they jet, bus & campaign around on other people's nickel when half of them are stinking effing rich to begin with.

Screw 'em all, I get nauseous at the site of most of them these days whether they have an R or a D after their name. At this point The Most Interesting Man In The World has my vote as a write-in candidate...
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Vic50
Posted 2011-08-16 7:50 AM (#526203 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: RE: So who's the savior?


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Obama is in trouble because of unemployment/economy. Of course when you look at the Republican candidates, his chances look a lot better.

I'm afraid there is no Savior. As with all great powers, after a long period of dominance, it starts to go downhill. The best we can do is slow this down.
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robstones
Posted 2011-08-16 8:08 AM (#526204 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Obviously, but who will be the President? Most people on here have a lot to say about the current, but who's better for the job?

Michele Bachmann?

Mitt Romney??

... Ron Paul.
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Vic50
Posted 2011-08-16 1:26 PM (#526216 - in reply to #526204)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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robstones - 2011-08-16 10:08 AM

Obviously, but who will be the President? Most people on here have a lot to say about the current, but who's better for the job?

Michele Bachmann?

Mitt Romney??

... Ron Paul.


Mike Murphy a republican consultant said that Michele Bachmann has a better chance of landing on Jupiter than being elected President. The nominee will probably be Romney or Perry.

In my opinion, and I know many will disagree, Obama is the man. but he has to be the leader and willing to call out the Tea party people.
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robstones
Posted 2011-08-16 1:59 PM (#526220 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Someone has to start making some noise. It's early yet, but Obama is hurtin because America is hurtin. Ron Paul I think can win this thing.. that's just me.

I like a lot of what Obama has done, it's just a shame that the country's banks, and wallstreet are so corrupt and greedy that the economy is going down like this.
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Curtis
Posted 2011-08-16 3:13 PM (#526233 - in reply to #526220)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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robstones - 2011-08-16 3:59 PM

Someone has to start making some noise. It's early yet, but Obama is hurtin because America is hurtin. Ron Paul I think can win this thing.. that's just me.

I like a lot of what Obama has done, it's just a shame that the country's banks, and wallstreet are so corrupt and greedy that the economy is going down like this.


Ron Paul can't win. As soon as he would become a "viable" candidate, his ties to anti-Semitic & neo-Nazi groups will come out.
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sark76
Posted 2011-08-16 3:22 PM (#526235 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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No one person can magically fix this, but I at least want a guy who looking out for me. Is Obama really the guy looking out for your best interests? As a middle class american there is no way.

I challenge all the upper/middle class liberals in North Jersey to come live a month in Hudson county and we'll see how liberal you really are once you get reality jammed in your teeth. You will change...just like I did.
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Vic50
Posted 2011-08-16 3:32 PM (#526236 - in reply to #526235)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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sark76 - 2011-08-16 5:22 PM

No one person can magically fix this, but I at least want a guy who looking out for me. Is Obama really the guy looking out for your best interests? As a middle class american there is no way.

I challenge all the upper/middle class liberals in North Jersey to come live a month in Hudson county and we'll see how liberal you really are once you get reality jammed in your teeth. You will change...just like I did.


Just curious - How do you get "jammed"?
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sark76
Posted 2011-08-16 3:41 PM (#526238 - in reply to #526236)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Vic50 - 2011-08-16 5:32 PM

sark76 - 2011-08-16 5:22 PM

No one person can magically fix this, but I at least want a guy who looking out for me. Is Obama really the guy looking out for your best interests? As a middle class american there is no way.

I challenge all the upper/middle class liberals in North Jersey to come live a month in Hudson county and we'll see how liberal you really are once you get reality jammed in your teeth. You will change...just like I did.


Just curious - How do you get "jammed"?


No the quote was "reality jammed in your teeth". A taste of living around what America is becoming. Yes there is liberals in Hudson county but its mainly people that enjoy how the system works for them at others expense. It's an experience that you can only get living around it, it can't be described in words. and thats not a cop-out...I literally couldn't explain it less I sit here for hours typing.
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Curtis
Posted 2011-08-16 3:44 PM (#526239 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Please explain how Wall St. & banks are "greedy" & allowed to continue corruption if the Dems are not also in on that charade? They have held 2/3 of the federal government since '06 & both legislative branches from 06-09 prior to the Republicans winning back the HOR majority last year. The legislative branch, for those of you who went to public school or may have just forgotten, is the branch that can make laws. So, if there is all this corruption going on why hasn't Congress passed a bunch of laws to try & end it? Nope, instead, one of Obama's 1st acts was to GIVE MONEY TO BANKS. Several of which initially turned down the offers but were "forced" to take it under the TARP bailout. Which, yes, Bush started but Obama continued. If a policy is so bad, why re-up. This is what I don't understand about some of you who claim to pay attention to what's going on. How can Bush's policies be bad when several of "Obama's" policies are nothing but Bush policies on steroids (i.e. the last stimulus & the TARP bailouts) or the continuation of Bush policies (military incursions into Libya & Yemen)?

Furthermore, why have the Dems & Congress not passed an actual federal budget in nearly 2 years (& especially in 09 when Dems still controlled all 3 branches of the federal government)? You don't need super majorities for budget amendments so possible filibuster arguments are off base.
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Curtis
Posted 2011-08-16 3:47 PM (#526240 - in reply to #526235)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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sark76 - 2011-08-16 5:22 PM

No one person can magically fix this, but I at least want a guy who looking out for me. Is Obama really the guy looking out for your best interests? As a middle class american there is no way.

I challenge all the upper/middle class liberals in North Jersey to come live a month in Hudson county and we'll see how liberal you really are once you get reality jammed in your teeth. You will change...just like I did.


Exactly. No one person will fix this. No group of current "leaders" can fix this. It will take a cultural & societal paradigm shift & get in different sorts of people into positions of power than currently hold federal positions. They're basically all bought & sold by/to somebody by the time they get to DC. Even Obama's grassroots upswelling a few yrs ago wasn't really all that grassroots when you dig into it.
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Stanley
Posted 2011-08-17 11:39 AM (#526262 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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I do not agree with Libertarianism in it's totality although I do lean that direction on many issues, so I'd vote for Ron Paul. I would not expect him to be able to implement much but it would shake up a system that needs it. Savior, no but possibly the start of a 3 or more party system?
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robstones
Posted 2011-08-17 5:15 PM (#526277 - in reply to #526233)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Curtis - 2011-08-16 5:13 PM

robstones - 2011-08-16 3:59 PM

Someone has to start making some noise. It's early yet, but Obama is hurtin because America is hurtin. Ron Paul I think can win this thing.. that's just me.

I like a lot of what Obama has done, it's just a shame that the country's banks, and wallstreet are so corrupt and greedy that the economy is going down like this.


Ron Paul can't win. As soon as he would become a "viable" candidate, his ties to anti-Semitic & neo-Nazi groups will come out.


What ties to neo nazi groups and anti semitism? The fact that he has supporters in groups doesn't mean that he is part of the group
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robstones
Posted 2011-08-17 5:20 PM (#526278 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Even if Ron Paul got elected his ideals wouldn't get approved by congress.

The country is so divided politically that no matter who the next president is the guys in the opposing party won't like him/her. Till the polarization ends or at least lessens the country will continue to fall.

Is there a guy that the GOP has that can lead?
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Curtis
Posted 2011-08-17 5:52 PM (#526279 - in reply to #526277)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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robstones - 2011-08-17 7:15 PM

Curtis - 2011-08-16 5:13 PM

robstones - 2011-08-16 3:59 PM

Someone has to start making some noise. It's early yet, but Obama is hurtin because America is hurtin. Ron Paul I think can win this thing.. that's just me.

I like a lot of what Obama has done, it's just a shame that the country's banks, and wallstreet are so corrupt and greedy that the economy is going down like this.


Ron Paul can't win. As soon as he would become a "viable" candidate, his ties to anti-Semitic & neo-Nazi groups will come out.


What ties to neo nazi groups and anti semitism? The fact that he has supporters in groups doesn't mean that he is part of the group


http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_it...

Rob, you're not a noob. You don't think any association with these type of groups will throw up red flags & look bad to groups like independents, Jewish voting blocs, etc.? Please.
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pack attack
Posted 2011-08-17 7:59 PM (#526283 - in reply to #526239)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Curtis - 2011-08-16 5:44 PM

Please explain how Wall St. & banks are "greedy" & allowed to continue corruption if the Dems are not also in on that charade? They have held 2/3 of the federal government since '06 & both legislative branches from 06-09 prior to the Republicans winning back the HOR majority last year. The legislative branch, for those of you who went to public school or may have just forgotten, is the branch that can make laws. So, if there is all this corruption going on why hasn't Congress passed a bunch of laws to try & end it? Nope, instead, one of Obama's 1st acts was to GIVE MONEY TO BANKS. Several of which initially turned down the offers but were "forced" to take it under the TARP bailout. Which, yes, Bush started but Obama continued. If a policy is so bad, why re-up. This is what I don't understand about some of you who claim to pay attention to what's going on. How can Bush's policies be bad when several of "Obama's" policies are nothing but Bush policies on steroids (i.e. the last stimulus & the TARP bailouts) or the continuation of Bush policies (military incursions into Libya & Yemen)?

Furthermore, why have the Dems & Congress not passed an actual federal budget in nearly 2 years (& especially in 09 when Dems still controlled all 3 branches of the federal government)? You don't need super majorities for budget amendments so possible filibuster arguments are off base.


The greedy ones are the government -- they keep confiscating more money; spend more then they have already confiscated -- and have made plans to keep taking more money.

We knew this was going to happen. More taxes, more regulations -- and people wonder where the jobs are? and why the economy continues to tank?

Stop the insanity, and let people and businesses alone. Reduce the taxes; reduce the regulation; reduce the government trying to make these fake green jobs -- and the enconomy will come racing back.
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Vic50
Posted 2011-08-18 9:10 AM (#526309 - in reply to #526283)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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pack attack - 2011-08-17 9:59 PM

Curtis - 2011-08-16 5:44 PM

Please explain how Wall St. & banks are "greedy" & allowed to continue corruption if the Dems are not also in on that charade? They have held 2/3 of the federal government since '06 & both legislative branches from 06-09 prior to the Republicans winning back the HOR majority last year. The legislative branch, for those of you who went to public school or may have just forgotten, is the branch that can make laws. So, if there is all this corruption going on why hasn't Congress passed a bunch of laws to try & end it? Nope, instead, one of Obama's 1st acts was to GIVE MONEY TO BANKS. Several of which initially turned down the offers but were "forced" to take it under the TARP bailout. Which, yes, Bush started but Obama continued. If a policy is so bad, why re-up. This is what I don't understand about some of you who claim to pay attention to what's going on. How can Bush's policies be bad when several of "Obama's" policies are nothing but Bush policies on steroids (i.e. the last stimulus & the TARP bailouts) or the continuation of Bush policies (military incursions into Libya & Yemen)?

Furthermore, why have the Dems & Congress not passed an actual federal budget in nearly 2 years (& especially in 09 when Dems still controlled all 3 branches of the federal government)? You don't need super majorities for budget amendments so possible filibuster arguments are off base.


The greedy ones are the government -- they keep confiscating more money; spend more then they have already confiscated -- and have made plans to keep taking more money.

We knew this was going to happen. More taxes, more regulations -- and people wonder where the jobs are? and why the economy continues to tank?

Stop the insanity, and let people and businesses alone. Reduce the taxes; reduce the regulation; reduce the government trying to make these fake green jobs -- and the enconomy will come racing back.


I'll pass on -taxes and green jobs.
But about government regulations. Businesses solely care about making as much profits as possible. Do you want no regulations? Imagine if there was no minimum wage, work safety regulations, and anti discrimination government regs.

How about no regulations on banks and financial companies. The 2008 Wall Street debacle would be small time as opposed to what could happen How would you like to deal with the bank if there were no regs.

Do you want the Hudson river to go back to the cesspool it was before government regulated it.

Businesses are making record profits now and are not hiring American workers.

I think it's time people just stop repeating the phrase that deregulating businesses creates new jobs, and consider if it is really true.
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Curtis
Posted 2011-08-18 5:06 PM (#526367 - in reply to #526309)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Yes what about Wall St. in 2008? The same Wall St. that already has a supposedly tough SEC regulatory commission. The same commission that either looked the other way or was in complicity with what Wall St. did. Or worse, was completely incompetent with their own regulations' enforcement. The same SEC that had people sit on it's regulatory commission(s) that worked at those same banks like Morgan-Stanley, Goldman-Saks, The Federal Reserve, etc.. The same SEC that has contacts & cronies that worked at the same banks in the government at the Treasury Dept.

When you put criminals in charge of regulations, increased regulations are nothing more than a stick to beat the head of serfs with.

As the joke goes- Bernie Madoff's real crime was that he ripped off rich people. If he would've ripped off poor people, he'd have a cabinet position. Just like the Fed Reserve & Goldman-Saks help rip everybody off with stuff like derivatives & quantitative easing & induced market fluctuations & what happens? They all turn around & end up on the SEC eventually or in the Treasury Dept. in charge of regulations and/or policy.

Stanley has done a lot of research on the Fed Reserve & their shenanigans. He could probably fill you in better about some of it.
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NYPD113th
Posted 2011-08-19 8:46 AM (#526426 - in reply to #526220)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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robstones - 2011-08-16 3:59 PM



I like a lot of what Obama has done, .



Of course you do, you're a douchebag that hates America.


http://www.bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view.bg?articleid=13...

Remember how you ripped W for all his time spent in Texas while President. Barry Hussein has spent more time away from the White House in less than 4 years than W did in 8. Let's see you spin this one you piece of shyt.

Edited by NYPD113th 2011-08-19 8:47 AM
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Stanley
Posted 2011-08-19 9:53 AM (#526442 - in reply to #526367)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Curtis - 2011-08-18 7:06 PM
Stanley has done a lot of research on the Fed Reserve & their shenanigans. He could probably fill you in better about some of it.


I'll update the Fed thread I made for those interested.
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robstones
Posted 2011-08-19 5:22 PM (#526526 - in reply to #526279)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Curtis - 2011-08-17 7:52 PM

robstones - 2011-08-17 7:15 PM

Curtis - 2011-08-16 5:13 PM

robstones - 2011-08-16 3:59 PM

Someone has to start making some noise. It's early yet, but Obama is hurtin because America is hurtin. Ron Paul I think can win this thing.. that's just me.

I like a lot of what Obama has done, it's just a shame that the country's banks, and wallstreet are so corrupt and greedy that the economy is going down like this.


Ron Paul can't win. As soon as he would become a "viable" candidate, his ties to anti-Semitic & neo-Nazi groups will come out.


What ties to neo nazi groups and anti semitism? The fact that he has supporters in groups doesn't mean that he is part of the group


http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_it...

Rob, you're not a noob. You don't think any association with these type of groups will throw up red flags & look bad to groups like independents, Jewish voting blocs, etc.? Please.


Red flags, sure... you can look at any candidate and find some sort of mud to sling, but I don't think being supported by someone should be a determination of fit for the job as much as actual stances on issues. I could understand if he WAS a neo nazi or part of some extremist group, but to merely be supported by people doesn't make or break you.

He's also supported by real americans.

Idk if he'll get the nod, but who else is there? Perry?
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robstones
Posted 2011-08-19 5:32 PM (#526527 - in reply to #526426)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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NYPD113th - 2011-08-19 10:46 AM

robstones - 2011-08-16 3:59 PM



I like a lot of what Obama has done, .



Of course you do, you're a douchebag that hates America.


http://www.bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view.bg?articleid=13...

Remember how you ripped W for all his time spent in Texas while President. Barry Hussein has spent more time away from the White House in less than 4 years than W did in 8. Let's see you spin this one you piece of shyt.


1) We have an Obama thread.

2) You're wrong http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/19/2366609/a-look-at-obamas-vaca...

3 Who's your pick for President, Romney? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS5z1T1pDrg

Any more brain busters?
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Vic50
Posted 2011-08-22 8:14 AM (#526679 - in reply to #526527)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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robstones - 2011-08-19 7:32 PM

NYPD113th - 2011-08-19 10:46 AM

robstones - 2011-08-16 3:59 PM



I like a lot of what Obama has done, .



Of course you do, you're a douchebag that hates America.


http://www.bostonherald.com/track/inside_track/view.bg?articleid=13...

Remember how you ripped W for all his time spent in Texas while President. Barry Hussein has spent more time away from the White House in less than 4 years than W did in 8. Let's see you spin this one you piece of shyt.


1) We have an Obama thread.

2) You're wrong http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/19/2366609/a-look-at-obamas-vaca...

3 Who's your pick for President, Romney? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS5z1T1pDrg

Any more brain busters?


Thanks for providing the real facts.

Actually, I think posters like our friend helps Obama, because fair minded people see that a lot of the criticism against him comes from name calling no-nothing bigots. Sure there are intelligent people who oppose some of his policies, but it seems like there is much more of the name calling crowd who can't stand the fact that Obama was elected President in " their country"
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Curtis
Posted 2011-08-22 10:20 PM (#526799 - in reply to #526526)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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robstones - 2011-08-19 7:22 PM

Curtis - 2011-08-17 7:52 PM

robstones - 2011-08-17 7:15 PM

Curtis - 2011-08-16 5:13 PM

robstones - 2011-08-16 3:59 PM

Someone has to start making some noise. It's early yet, but Obama is hurtin because America is hurtin. Ron Paul I think can win this thing.. that's just me.

I like a lot of what Obama has done, it's just a shame that the country's banks, and wallstreet are so corrupt and greedy that the economy is going down like this.


Ron Paul can't win. As soon as he would become a "viable" candidate, his ties to anti-Semitic & neo-Nazi groups will come out.


What ties to neo nazi groups and anti semitism? The fact that he has supporters in groups doesn't mean that he is part of the group


http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_it...

Rob, you're not a noob. You don't think any association with these type of groups will throw up red flags & look bad to groups like independents, Jewish voting blocs, etc.? Please.


Red flags, sure... you can look at any candidate and find some sort of mud to sling, but I don't think being supported by someone should be a determination of fit for the job as much as actual stances on issues. I could understand if he WAS a neo nazi or part of some extremist group, but to merely be supported by people doesn't make or break you.

He's also supported by real americans.

Idk if he'll get the nod, but who else is there? Perry?


And I understand what you're saying, Rob, but I don't think I have to tell you how easy it would be to make political hay out of having ties to racist groups, either real or imagined, when running against a black candidate for a party that already always has to combat false charges of racism or have to deal with the counter-racism of black conservatives & Republicans not being "real blacks" despite historical facts of far more overt racism coming from the Democrat party (KKK, Dixiecrats, Jim Crow laws, Southern Democrats trying to filibuster the Civil Rights Bill, etc.). Not saying racism doesn't exist on the right, but the Democrats went so far as to actually canonize it as legislation in the South. They would only have to be used as campaign material much of which is already exaggerated or outright lies.

To answer the last question, I have no clue at this point who would be a viable candidate for Republicans. Like most candidates these days, most are either just political re-treads or are political "creations." Or are too "religious" or too something, i.e. conservative, right wing, non-centrist, whatever. Pick an excuse.

Most level-headed Republicans are too young or "ethnic" for national groups right now. People like Bobby Jindal or Marco Rubio would be decent candidates if it was just about merit or "pedigree" for the lack of a better word. But most people's recollection of Jindal was the awful tv speech response (where he was badly "coached" on delivery; but trust me, I've met the man personally, he's freaking smart as Hell) & it isn't even sure if Rubio qualifies to run for President. So, their youth & their ethnicity would likely derail their bids by the country club Republicans.

Romney amounts to a RINO & the whole Mormon thing will eventually sink him again, IMO (though he likely would have having backing by businesses [despite being for universal healthcare] & moderates). Perry would have to answer questions of government funds taken as governor of Texas which contradicts his campaign rhetoric. Although, some people may see him as another Reagan since he's a "reformed" Democrat, like Reagan referred to himself as, who once even ran Al Gore's campaign in the state of Texas. Palin (who I personally don't think will even run) & Bachmann would/will eventually lose out b/c of their gender from once again, the country club Republicans. A lot of people also like Paul Ryan from Indiana but he's already stated he isn't going to enter the race at any time (though obviously that could change since that's just a verbal statement).

But, I think some polls are forgetting the fact that at this stage a viable candidate isn't necessarily needed right now (right now that has more to do with political writers & journalists having something to write about or someone to attack, prop up, etc.) as Obama at the same stage was nothing more than an interesting story & the consensus was that he'd eventually lose out to Hillary or Kerry if we recall.

Or, the whole "Anybody But Bush" phenomenon could swing back the other way as well. If there's enough people who don't like Obama's performance on the economy you may get enough of a "Anybody But Obama" movement too that may take whomever does end up being the Republican nominee across the finish line but going against George Soros money (yeah, yeah, yeah, the 1st campaign was funded through the grassroots; riiiiiiiiiiiiiight [over-exaggerated wink]) that would still take some doing.

I personally don't have much faith though in either party anymore. The more I follow contemporary politics, the more it seems to be not a Right v Left thing but a Right & Left of the same/similar political machine. One sells us out to businesses, the other to activist groups & both sell us out to bankers & international interests.

Sorry, I kind of went off on tangents like I do but you get the point(s). I've lived in Louisiana, Florida & now Alaska. In these places (so I'm assuming it's the same pretty much everywhere) people seem to accept differing levels of corruption , cronyism, etc. (and we can see it readily in Chicago, California, Texas, Missouri, D.C., New York, etc.) as long as it's their sides' or it benefits them individually.

Edited by Curtis 2011-08-22 10:21 PM
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Vic50
Posted 2011-08-23 6:26 AM (#526809 - in reply to #526799)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Curtis - 2011-08-23 12:20 AM

robstones - 2011-08-19 7:22 PM

Curtis - 2011-08-17 7:52 PM

robstones - 2011-08-17 7:15 PM

Curtis - 2011-08-16 5:13 PM

robstones - 2011-08-16 3:59 PM

Someone has to start making some noise. It's early yet, but Obama is hurtin because America is hurtin. Ron Paul I think can win this thing.. that's just me.

I like a lot of what Obama has done, it's just a shame that the country's banks, and wallstreet are so corrupt and greedy that the economy is going down like this.


Ron Paul can't win. As soon as he would become a "viable" candidate, his ties to anti-Semitic & neo-Nazi groups will come out.


What ties to neo nazi groups and anti semitism? The fact that he has supporters in groups doesn't mean that he is part of the group


http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/11/the_ron_paul_campaign_and_it...

Rob, you're not a noob. You don't think any association with these type of groups will throw up red flags & look bad to groups like independents, Jewish voting blocs, etc.? Please.


Red flags, sure... you can look at any candidate and find some sort of mud to sling, but I don't think being supported by someone should be a determination of fit for the job as much as actual stances on issues. I could understand if he WAS a neo nazi or part of some extremist group, but to merely be supported by people doesn't make or break you.

He's also supported by real americans.

Idk if he'll get the nod, but who else is there? Perry?


And I understand what you're saying, Rob, but I don't think I have to tell you how easy it would be to make political hay out of having ties to racist groups, either real or imagined, when running against a black candidate for a party that already always has to combat false charges of racism or have to deal with the counter-racism of black conservatives & Republicans not being "real blacks" despite historical facts of far more overt racism coming from the Democrat party (KKK, Dixiecrats, Jim Crow laws, Southern Democrats trying to filibuster the Civil Rights Bill, etc.). Not saying racism doesn't exist on the right, but the Democrats went so far as to actually canonize it as legislation in the South. They would only have to be used as campaign material much of which is already exaggerated or outright lies.

To answer the last question, I have no clue at this point who would be a viable candidate for Republicans. Like most candidates these days, most are either just political re-treads or are political "creations." Or are too "religious" or too something, i.e. conservative, right wing, non-centrist, whatever. Pick an excuse.

Most level-headed Republicans are too young or "ethnic" for national groups right now. People like Bobby Jindal or Marco Rubio would be decent candidates if it was just about merit or "pedigree" for the lack of a better word. But most people's recollection of Jindal was the awful tv speech response (where he was badly "coached" on delivery; but trust me, I've met the man personally, he's freaking smart as Hell) & it isn't even sure if Rubio qualifies to run for President. So, their youth & their ethnicity would likely derail their bids by the country club Republicans.

Romney amounts to a RINO & the whole Mormon thing will eventually sink him again, IMO (though he likely would have having backing by businesses [despite being for universal healthcare] & moderates). Perry would have to answer questions of government funds taken as governor of Texas which contradicts his campaign rhetoric. Although, some people may see him as another Reagan since he's a "reformed" Democrat, like Reagan referred to himself as, who once even ran Al Gore's campaign in the state of Texas. Palin (who I personally don't think will even run) & Bachmann would/will eventually lose out b/c of their gender from once again, the country club Republicans. A lot of people also like Paul Ryan from Indiana but he's already stated he isn't going to enter the race at any time (though obviously that could change since that's just a verbal statement).

But, I think some polls are forgetting the fact that at this stage a viable candidate isn't necessarily needed right now (right now that has more to do with political writers & journalists having something to write about or someone to attack, prop up, etc.) as Obama at the same stage was nothing more than an interesting story & the consensus was that he'd eventually lose out to Hillary or Kerry if we recall.

Or, the whole "Anybody But Bush" phenomenon could swing back the other way as well. If there's enough people who don't like Obama's performance on the economy you may get enough of a "Anybody But Obama" movement too that may take whomever does end up being the Republican nominee across the finish line but going against George Soros money (yeah, yeah, yeah, the 1st campaign was funded through the grassroots; riiiiiiiiiiiiiight [over-exaggerated wink]) that would still take some doing.

I personally don't have much faith though in either party anymore. The more I follow contemporary politics, the more it seems to be not a Right v Left thing but a Right & Left of the same/similar political machine. One sells us out to businesses, the other to activist groups & both sell us out to bankers & international interests.

Sorry, I kind of went off on tangents like I do but you get the point(s). I've lived in Louisiana, Florida & now Alaska. In these places (so I'm assuming it's the same pretty much everywhere) people seem to accept differing levels of corruption , cronyism, etc. (and we can see it readily in Chicago, California, Texas, Missouri, D.C., New York, etc.) as long as it's their sides' or it benefits them individually.


I may not agree with all your points, but this is an excellent well thought out analysis of the political landscape.
We need more of this type of talk, rather then the snide name calling garbage.
Please continue to post your thoughts.
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Stanley
Posted 2011-08-23 7:54 AM (#526818 - in reply to #526799)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Curtis - 2011-08-23 12:20 AM
I personally don't have much faith though in either party anymore. The more I follow contemporary politics, the more it seems to be not a Right v Left thing but a Right & Left of the same/similar political machine. One sells us out to businesses, the other to activist groups & both sell us out to bankers & international interests.


This is pretty much how I feel. It's no longer even about being partisan. Neither side has the moral fortitude to do what's right for the country. Those who do can never be put in an electable position as they will never be financed by the powers that really be.
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robstones
Posted 2011-08-23 9:13 AM (#526849 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Piers Morgan did a good interview with Jon Huntsman last night
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2011-08-26 11:06 AM (#527357 - in reply to #526193)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Curtis - 2011-08-15 10:28 PM

I had one of my usual long responses but deleted it. I just don't care enough anymore. I'll just say that I'm sick & tired of saviors. I'm sick & tired of "leaders." I'm sick & tired of federal representatives who aren't actually that but want to act like oligarchs & a modern nobility. I'm sick & tired of being told we need to sacrifice when they jet, bus & campaign around on other people's nickel when half of them are stinking effing rich to begin with.

Screw 'em all, I get nauseous at the site of most of them these days whether they have an R or a D after their name. At this point The Most Interesting Man In The World has my vote as a write-in candidate...



Sounds like the lyrics to a Bad Religion song


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Coachrd
Posted 2011-08-26 1:00 PM (#527366 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Chris Christie
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2011-08-26 1:32 PM (#527370 - in reply to #526283)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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pack attack - 2011-08-17 9:59 PM

Curtis - 2011-08-16 5:44 PM

Please explain how Wall St. & banks are "greedy" & allowed to continue corruption if the Dems are not also in on that charade? They have held 2/3 of the federal government since '06 & both legislative branches from 06-09 prior to the Republicans winning back the HOR majority last year. The legislative branch, for those of you who went to public school or may have just forgotten, is the branch that can make laws. So, if there is all this corruption going on why hasn't Congress passed a bunch of laws to try & end it? Nope, instead, one of Obama's 1st acts was to GIVE MONEY TO BANKS. Several of which initially turned down the offers but were "forced" to take it under the TARP bailout. Which, yes, Bush started but Obama continued. If a policy is so bad, why re-up. This is what I don't understand about some of you who claim to pay attention to what's going on. How can Bush's policies be bad when several of "Obama's" policies are nothing but Bush policies on steroids (i.e. the last stimulus & the TARP bailouts) or the continuation of Bush policies (military incursions into Libya & Yemen)?

Furthermore, why have the Dems & Congress not passed an actual federal budget in nearly 2 years (& especially in 09 when Dems still controlled all 3 branches of the federal government)? You don't need super majorities for budget amendments so possible filibuster arguments are off base.


The greedy ones are the government -- they keep confiscating more money; spend more then they have already confiscated -- and have made plans to keep taking more money.

We knew this was going to happen. More taxes, more regulations -- and people wonder where the jobs are? and why the economy continues to tank?

Stop the insanity, and let people and businesses alone. Reduce the taxes; reduce the regulation; reduce the government trying to make these fake green jobs -- and the enconomy will come racing back.


What businesses are you talking about? The ones that former CEO's, VP's & Chairmen are now Senators and Congressmen.. and visa-versa? The ones that outsource American jobs and build tax shelters? The business's that are to blind to see their very own CEO's are robbing everyone's pension plans? The Business's that hire illegal's? The 3 or 4 business that control all the food manufactured in America and force farmers from growing food, and growing only their seed? The business's that hinder technology for self enlightened reasons? The Business that controls the media and controls your every thought? The Business that steel from the poor and give it to the rich?

The list goes on and on... I don't trust business or the Government ANYMORE!!!! because they're the same people... The fact that Business's make themselves the victims and corrupt politicians to have people vote against their own rights, by using religion, fear, racism, taxes, gays, the poor, city workers... just shows how stupid Americans really are... It's a scam... have Americans fight against each other on trivial things so they can run away with all the money... MONEY!!! GREED and POWER!!!!

The crumbs falling off the rich table hasn't worked and won't work.... because their corrupt and greedy and will rob and steal and cheat every dollar they can...

You wanna see the economy grow... Give tax breaks "ONLY" to American company's, who manufacture in America and create Americans jobs only...put a stop to the ridicules one sided trade agreement we have with China.... and do away with lobbying.. and make it illegal for politicians to have any former connections with major corporations... and illegal to accept a job from a oil company, insurance company, military war complex company, etc etc etc once out of office... make it illegal for politicians to take any finical campaign money from any corporation... each candidate should only be allowed to raise so much campaign money to run... then they're all capped off at the same amount so it stops the richest candidate from having the upper hand... Richest candidate means he made more crooked promises than the next.... this will also shrink the Government.

Greedy Businesses have taken over and make it appear that city teachers, policemen, fireman, postal workers and community workers are the bad guys. The rules won't change because they make the rules, and we keep on voting for these fools.












Edited by Andy Bathgate 2011-08-26 4:28 PM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2011-08-26 1:48 PM (#527371 - in reply to #526799)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Curtis - 2011-08-23 12:20 AM


Sorry, I kind of went off on tangents like I do but you get the point(s). I've lived in Louisiana, Florida & now Alaska. In these places (so I'm assuming it's the same pretty much everywhere) people seem to accept differing levels of corruption , cronyism, etc. (and we can see it readily in Chicago, California, Texas, Missouri, D.C., New York, etc.) as long as it's their sides' or it benefits them individually.


BINGO!!!!

Welcome to the Machine...

Only problem is, it never quit works out where it benefits them (the voter) individually... Unless you're the beneficiary of the corruption and or cronyism...


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Vic50
Posted 2011-08-26 2:28 PM (#527376 - in reply to #527370)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Andy Bathgate - 2011-08-26 3:32 PM

The list goes on and on... I don't trust business or the Government ANYMORE!!!! because they're the same people... The fact that Business's make themselves the victims and corrupt politicians to have people vote against their own rights, by using religion, fear, racism, taxes, gays, the poor, city workers... just shows how stupid Americans really are... It's a scam... have Americans fight against each other on trivial things so they can run away with all the money... MONEY!!! GREED and POWER!!!!

The crumbs falling of the rich table hasn't worked and won't work.... because their corrupt and greedy and will rob and steel and cheat every dollar they can...

You wanna see the economy grow... Give tax breaks "ONLY" to American company's, who manufacture in America and create Americans jobs only...put a stop to the ridicules one sided trade agreement we have with China.... and do away with lobbying.. and make it illegal for politicians to have any former connections with major corporations... and illegal to accept a job from a oil company, insurance company, military war complex company, etc etc etc once out of office... make it illegal for politicians to take any finical campaign money from any corporation... each candidate should only be allowed to raise so much campaign money to run... then they're all capped off at the same amount so it stops the richest candidate from having the upper hand... Richest candidate means he made more crooked promises than the next.... this will also shrink the Government.

Greedy Businesses have taken over and make it appear that city teachers, policemen, fireman, postal workers and community workers are the bad guys. The rules won't change because they make the rules, and we keep on voting for these fools.











You hit it out of the park.

This is the crux of the problem in this country- the constant drumbeat of " leave business alone, reduce their taxes they are your friend. In truth, this is a high pile of BS
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2011-08-26 4:18 PM (#527378 - in reply to #527376)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17717
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Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Vic50 - 2011-08-26 4:28 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2011-08-26 3:32 PM

The list goes on and on... I don't trust business or the Government ANYMORE!!!! because they're the same people... The fact that Business's make themselves the victims and corrupt politicians to have people vote against their own rights, by using religion, fear, racism, taxes, gays, the poor, city workers... just shows how stupid Americans really are... It's a scam... have Americans fight against each other on trivial things so they can run away with all the money... MONEY!!! GREED and POWER!!!!

The crumbs falling of the rich table hasn't worked and won't work.... because their corrupt and greedy and will rob and steel and cheat every dollar they can...

You wanna see the economy grow... Give tax breaks "ONLY" to American company's, who manufacture in America and create Americans jobs only...put a stop to the ridicules one sided trade agreement we have with China.... and do away with lobbying.. and make it illegal for politicians to have any former connections with major corporations... and illegal to accept a job from a oil company, insurance company, military war complex company, etc etc etc once out of office... make it illegal for politicians to take any finical campaign money from any corporation... each candidate should only be allowed to raise so much campaign money to run... then they're all capped off at the same amount so it stops the richest candidate from having the upper hand... Richest candidate means he made more crooked promises than the next.... this will also shrink the Government.

Greedy Businesses have taken over and make it appear that city teachers, policemen, fireman, postal workers and community workers are the bad guys. The rules won't change because they make the rules, and we keep on voting for these fools.











You hit it out of the park.

This is the crux of the problem in this country- the constant drumbeat of " leave business alone, reduce their taxes they are your friend. In truth, this is a high pile of BS


How much rope do we have to give big business until people realize they don't give a shiiit about people? They say the Government shouldn't be trusted.... yeah... because Big Business is the Goverment... One party may pull it this way the other that way.... but Obama, Bush, Clinton, Regan ALL are guilty of taking money and making promises to Big Business.... Obama takes money from Shell... Bush from Exon,,, Clinton takes from Proctor & Gamble,,, Regan from Johnson & Johnson.... (example) and The GOP has been corrupted to the point where they only have religious freaks as candidates, the smart Fiscal people are to "middle" for the rip roaring Corporately run Tea Party...


so there is NO savior!!!







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