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So who's the savior?
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-05 5:13 PM (#579703 - in reply to #579692)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 4:57 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 4:22 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 3:24 PM

Andy, maybe we are thinking in different dimensions, but I just don't get you. First you say we need to protect illegal immigrants since they work hard and sleep under the car..etc. And then you say that business pigs hire them. What do you suggest, we give them no work and let them starve? Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.


Immigrants from South of our border would not come if they didn't have millions of illegal jobs waiting for them... looking for slave laborers... Poor, and middle class do not hire illegals.... 99% of the population do not hire illegals.

But there are jobs waiting for them... So as a Government... Local or Federal... how do you clean this mess up now? after years and years illegal hiring?

So your wrong... First I say don't hire them and that's where the problem begins.... then I say I have no idea how to solve the next problem (Many experts debate this everyday... I certainly don't have an answer)... except for make them become citizens or leave... You make it sound like Business Pigs hire them out of the kindness of their hearts... it's called slave labor... Again... I've owned my own company for 30 years and NEVER hired an illegal... I've had 1000's of people working for me... even had nanny's and landscapers and house cleaners... and started building homes during the boom... and I never hired an illegal.

Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.

Closing the border is not going to be easy... too many miles.... Walls have never done anything....The problem is hiring them to start with (with illegal intentions). Build a wall (LAWS) in Business lobby's and warehouses... Make the people hiring them enroll them for green cards... Here in North Carolina, there was a report that said tens of thousands of illegals left the state when the housing slowed... where did they go... home or where the jobs are.







Job is not the only reason they may come to US. They may come for health care too. Hospital will serve them, it has too. Also, forget about work for a second, many of them even get food stems..etc, so work is not the only incentive to come here. Still better than back home, even living in the shelter, probably better. Again, that brings the question whether the government should enforce existing laws or not? Why the government doesn't go after businesses that hire illegals? It is not like it is a secret, it is right there in the open. For crying out loud, why does the government allow many illegals to vote? Also, not only business higher them. Many private people do as well for babysitters, cleaning personal..etc. By your definition it means that a huge % of population are pigs.



Job is 99.9999999 % of the reason why they come here... I lived in Castle Park San Diego... and trust me... only illegal Mexicans going to the hospital were injured going across the border.... Your facts are way off... as soon as their caught injured, they patch them up and send them home. I don't think Illegals with Cancer or major health problems are crossing the border just to walk into a hospital... they'd be sent home anyway.

The Government allows Mexicans to work illegally because the Government is run and lobbied by Big Business PIG$!!! 35 years of Trickle down economics has destroyed much... Remember!!! The GOP Government has been in charge a lot more over the last 40 years than the Dems.

Many Private people do not hire illegals... 98% of the total population do not hire illegals to do anything... Only a percentage of rich-well off people hire illegals,,, and yes they're PIG$ because they want slave labor instead of hiring a citizen or somebody with working papers.

A percentage of the 1% are PIG$... Anyone who outsources, manufacturers over seas, monopolizes, laborizes, hire's illegals as cheap labor... anything costing American jobs, avoid paying taxes, Health or using money to corrupt the Government is a PIG in my BOOK!

You're whole voting thing is so ridicules I'm not going to bother with it.

Big Business and those looking for free labor caused this illegal problem... like they did 7 generations ago when they brought thousand of ship loads of Africans here as slaves... Christians justifying slavery!




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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-05 5:30 PM (#579704 - in reply to #579702)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 6:41 PM

Vic50 - 2012-10-05 5:16 PM

where do you get government allows many illegals to vote? If that happened the 2 year investigation of potential illegal votes conducted by the Republican party would have caught this and they would be screaming "holy hell"


Let me break the news to you, not only illegals vote, even dead people are voting. Reps are screaming about it non stop. Dems will do anything to continue this. If you just mention about having a personal ID at the voting place and you never hear the end of it. Yeah I know, that will prevent many Dems to vote, because they have no ID, so don't throw this at me.

I just don't get how you supposed get a legal job if you have no ID? I guess you don't need neither these days. On another thought, if you have no job or public assistance how do you survive? Because if you have some type of public assistance, you must have an ID to apply or get your money/food stamps at the cash place. So how about some ID check when voting?


Both sides are guilty of screwing with votes... been going on forever... Irish were used and given citizen ship easier if they voted one way or another. Every nationality was recruited or pitched at the docks when they landed.

But at the end of the day... your vote doesn't matter in 75% of the states because of the electoral college vote.... Take New York... your vote don't matter, but here in North Carolina it matters.. or Ohio, Florida and a few more states... how is that fair to you.... But it's saving the GOP party... which may not be a good thing... if every body vote counted... the majority of the people will have a say... not just some in some states....

The GOP has a big problem that is ever growing... their appeal to voters is shrinking... The country dynamics are changing.... The GOP message is getting lost with religious crazy's, in a world that is growing more indifferent to religion... White Boy only club is not working.....the country is growing more ethnic and mixed... and this good old boy system will be a thing of the past.... they need to cheat to get votes.






Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-10-05 5:34 PM
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-05 5:38 PM (#579705 - in reply to #579703)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 7:13 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 4:57 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 4:22 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 3:24 PM

Andy, maybe we are thinking in different dimensions, but I just don't get you. First you say we need to protect illegal immigrants since they work hard and sleep under the car..etc. And then you say that business pigs hire them. What do you suggest, we give them no work and let them starve? Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.


Immigrants from South of our border would not come if they didn't have millions of illegal jobs waiting for them... looking for slave laborers... Poor, and middle class do not hire illegals.... 99% of the population do not hire illegals.

But there are jobs waiting for them... So as a Government... Local or Federal... how do you clean this mess up now? after years and years illegal hiring?

So your wrong... First I say don't hire them and that's where the problem begins.... then I say I have no idea how to solve the next problem (Many experts debate this everyday... I certainly don't have an answer)... except for make them become citizens or leave... You make it sound like Business Pigs hire them out of the kindness of their hearts... it's called slave labor... Again... I've owned my own company for 30 years and NEVER hired an illegal... I've had 1000's of people working for me... even had nanny's and landscapers and house cleaners... and started building homes during the boom... and I never hired an illegal.

Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.

Closing the border is not going to be easy... too many miles.... Walls have never done anything....The problem is hiring them to start with (with illegal intentions). Build a wall (LAWS) in Business lobby's and warehouses... Make the people hiring them enroll them for green cards... Here in North Carolina, there was a report that said tens of thousands of illegals left the state when the housing slowed... where did they go... home or where the jobs are.







Job is not the only reason they may come to US. They may come for health care too. Hospital will serve them, it has too. Also, forget about work for a second, many of them even get food stems..etc, so work is not the only incentive to come here. Still better than back home, even living in the shelter, probably better. Again, that brings the question whether the government should enforce existing laws or not? Why the government doesn't go after businesses that hire illegals? It is not like it is a secret, it is right there in the open. For crying out loud, why does the government allow many illegals to vote? Also, not only business higher them. Many private people do as well for babysitters, cleaning personal..etc. By your definition it means that a huge % of population are pigs.



Job is 99.9999999 % of the reason why they come here... I lived in Castle Park San Diego... and trust me... only illegal Mexicans going to the hospital were injured going across the border.... Your facts are way off... as soon as their caught injured, they patch them up and send them home. I don't think Illegals with Cancer or major health problems are crossing the border just to walk into a hospital... they'd be sent home anyway.

The Government allows Mexicans to work illegally because the Government is run and lobbied by Big Business PIG$!!! 35 years of Trickle down economics has destroyed much... Remember!!! The GOP Government has been in charge a lot more over the last 40 years than the Dems.

Many Private people do not hire illegals... 98% of the total population do not hire illegals to do anything... Only a percentage of rich-well off people hire illegals,,, and yes they're PIG$ because they want slave labor instead of hiring a citizen or somebody with working papers.

A percentage of the 1% are PIG$... Anyone who outsources, manufacturers over seas, monopolizes, laborizes, hire's illegals as cheap labor... anything costing American jobs, avoid paying taxes, Health or using money to corrupt the Government is a PIG in my BOOK!

You're whole voting thing is so ridicules I'm not going to bother with it.

Big Business and those looking for free labor caused this illegal problem... like they did 7 generations ago when they brought thousand of ship loads of Africans here as slaves... Christians justifying slavery!






So according to you the government is run by big business pigs and yet you want even more government. Why?

I bet they didn't show you in the liberal media how our President agreed with China and GE to manufacture jet Engines in China. And during the State of the Union address GE CEO was setting right next to Presidents wife. Or how a huge % of GM is outsourced out of US, which is by the way is mostly owned by the Government. Or how you force business overseas because of Unions, taxes, regulations, trade agreements. This is not communism, business do what they can in order to survive. So I do agree with you in a sense, but you shouldn't separate some pigs from others.
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-05 5:51 PM (#579706 - in reply to #579705)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 7:38 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 7:13 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 4:57 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 4:22 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 3:24 PM

Andy, maybe we are thinking in different dimensions, but I just don't get you. First you say we need to protect illegal immigrants since they work hard and sleep under the car..etc. And then you say that business pigs hire them. What do you suggest, we give them no work and let them starve? Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.


Immigrants from South of our border would not come if they didn't have millions of illegal jobs waiting for them... looking for slave laborers... Poor, and middle class do not hire illegals.... 99% of the population do not hire illegals.

But there are jobs waiting for them... So as a Government... Local or Federal... how do you clean this mess up now? after years and years illegal hiring?

So your wrong... First I say don't hire them and that's where the problem begins.... then I say I have no idea how to solve the next problem (Many experts debate this everyday... I certainly don't have an answer)... except for make them become citizens or leave... You make it sound like Business Pigs hire them out of the kindness of their hearts... it's called slave labor... Again... I've owned my own company for 30 years and NEVER hired an illegal... I've had 1000's of people working for me... even had nanny's and landscapers and house cleaners... and started building homes during the boom... and I never hired an illegal.

Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.

Closing the border is not going to be easy... too many miles.... Walls have never done anything....The problem is hiring them to start with (with illegal intentions). Build a wall (LAWS) in Business lobby's and warehouses... Make the people hiring them enroll them for green cards... Here in North Carolina, there was a report that said tens of thousands of illegals left the state when the housing slowed... where did they go... home or where the jobs are.







Job is not the only reason they may come to US. They may come for health care too. Hospital will serve them, it has too. Also, forget about work for a second, many of them even get food stems..etc, so work is not the only incentive to come here. Still better than back home, even living in the shelter, probably better. Again, that brings the question whether the government should enforce existing laws or not? Why the government doesn't go after businesses that hire illegals? It is not like it is a secret, it is right there in the open. For crying out loud, why does the government allow many illegals to vote? Also, not only business higher them. Many private people do as well for babysitters, cleaning personal..etc. By your definition it means that a huge % of population are pigs.



Job is 99.9999999 % of the reason why they come here... I lived in Castle Park San Diego... and trust me... only illegal Mexicans going to the hospital were injured going across the border.... Your facts are way off... as soon as their caught injured, they patch them up and send them home. I don't think Illegals with Cancer or major health problems are crossing the border just to walk into a hospital... they'd be sent home anyway.

The Government allows Mexicans to work illegally because the Government is run and lobbied by Big Business PIG$!!! 35 years of Trickle down economics has destroyed much... Remember!!! The GOP Government has been in charge a lot more over the last 40 years than the Dems.

Many Private people do not hire illegals... 98% of the total population do not hire illegals to do anything... Only a percentage of rich-well off people hire illegals,,, and yes they're PIG$ because they want slave labor instead of hiring a citizen or somebody with working papers.

A percentage of the 1% are PIG$... Anyone who outsources, manufacturers over seas, monopolizes, laborizes, hire's illegals as cheap labor... anything costing American jobs, avoid paying taxes, Health or using money to corrupt the Government is a PIG in my BOOK!

You're whole voting thing is so ridicules I'm not going to bother with it.

Big Business and those looking for free labor caused this illegal problem... like they did 7 generations ago when they brought thousand of ship loads of Africans here as slaves... Christians justifying slavery!






So according to you the government is run by big business pigs and yet you want even more government. Why?

I bet they didn't show you in the liberal media how our President agreed with China and GE to manufacture jet Engines in China. And during the State of the Union address GE CEO was setting right next to Presidents wife. Or how a huge % of GM is outsourced out of US, which is by the way is mostly owned by the Government. Or how you force business overseas because of Unions, taxes, regulations, trade agreements. This is not communism, business do what they can in order to survive. So I do agree with you in a sense, but you shouldn't separate some pigs from others.


Both parties are rotten to the core.... They both fight over BS... and vote together to crush American Middle class and small business... Sorry if I'm sounding more one sided than I actually am....

And dude.. i'm not campaigning here... so your statement of me wanting more government is complete horse crap... I just state the facts.., the fact is the bigger, and more Big Business takes over the government... and crushes workers rights, the bigger the Government gets for both sides... you want a small Government, then Big Business has to have less influence... Big Business like the Koch brothers who are presently controlling and financing the GOP..... so they can pollute where they want.














Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-10-05 6:00 PM
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Vic50
Posted 2012-10-05 7:57 PM (#579725 - in reply to #579705)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


MVP

Posts: 5794
5000
Location: Manhattan
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 7:38 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 7:13 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 4:57 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 4:22 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 3:24 PM

Andy, maybe we are thinking in different dimensions, but I just don't get you. First you say we need to protect illegal immigrants since they work hard and sleep under the car..etc. And then you say that business pigs hire them. What do you suggest, we give them no work and let them starve? Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.


Immigrants from South of our border would not come if they didn't have millions of illegal jobs waiting for them... looking for slave laborers... Poor, and middle class do not hire illegals.... 99% of the population do not hire illegals.

But there are jobs waiting for them... So as a Government... Local or Federal... how do you clean this mess up now? after years and years illegal hiring?

So your wrong... First I say don't hire them and that's where the problem begins.... then I say I have no idea how to solve the next problem (Many experts debate this everyday... I certainly don't have an answer)... except for make them become citizens or leave... You make it sound like Business Pigs hire them out of the kindness of their hearts... it's called slave labor... Again... I've owned my own company for 30 years and NEVER hired an illegal... I've had 1000's of people working for me... even had nanny's and landscapers and house cleaners... and started building homes during the boom... and I never hired an illegal.

Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.

Closing the border is not going to be easy... too many miles.... Walls have never done anything....The problem is hiring them to start with (with illegal intentions). Build a wall (LAWS) in Business lobby's and warehouses... Make the people hiring them enroll them for green cards... Here in North Carolina, there was a report that said tens of thousands of illegals left the state when the housing slowed... where did they go... home or where the jobs are.







Job is not the only reason they may come to US. They may come for health care too. Hospital will serve them, it has too. Also, forget about work for a second, many of them even get food stems..etc, so work is not the only incentive to come here. Still better than back home, even living in the shelter, probably better. Again, that brings the question whether the government should enforce existing laws or not? Why the government doesn't go after businesses that hire illegals? It is not like it is a secret, it is right there in the open. For crying out loud, why does the government allow many illegals to vote? Also, not only business higher them. Many private people do as well for babysitters, cleaning personal..etc. By your definition it means that a huge % of population are pigs.



Job is 99.9999999 % of the reason why they come here... I lived in Castle Park San Diego... and trust me... only illegal Mexicans going to the hospital were injured going across the border.... Your facts are way off... as soon as their caught injured, they patch them up and send them home. I don't think Illegals with Cancer or major health problems are crossing the border just to walk into a hospital... they'd be sent home anyway.

The Government allows Mexicans to work illegally because the Government is run and lobbied by Big Business PIG$!!! 35 years of Trickle down economics has destroyed much... Remember!!! The GOP Government has been in charge a lot more over the last 40 years than the Dems.

Many Private people do not hire illegals... 98% of the total population do not hire illegals to do anything... Only a percentage of rich-well off people hire illegals,,, and yes they're PIG$ because they want slave labor instead of hiring a citizen or somebody with working papers.

A percentage of the 1% are PIG$... Anyone who outsources, manufacturers over seas, monopolizes, laborizes, hire's illegals as cheap labor... anything costing American jobs, avoid paying taxes, Health or using money to corrupt the Government is a PIG in my BOOK!

You're whole voting thing is so ridicules I'm not going to bother with it.

Big Business and those looking for free labor caused this illegal problem... like they did 7 generations ago when they brought thousand of ship loads of Africans here as slaves... Christians justifying slavery!






So according to you the government is run by big business pigs and yet you want even more government. Why?

I bet they didn't show you in the liberal media how our President agreed with China and GE to manufacture jet Engines in China. And during the State of the Union address GE CEO was setting right next to Presidents wife. Or how a huge % of GM is outsourced out of US, which is by the way is mostly owned by the Government. Or how you force business overseas because of Unions, taxes, regulations, trade agreements. This is not communism, business do what they can in order to survive. So I do agree with you in a sense, but you shouldn't separate some pigs from others.


Since the government saved GM in 2009, the number of GM USA auto jobs have increased. As GM has paid some of the loans, the % of Government ownership has decrewase sibnificantly.
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Vic50
Posted 2012-10-05 8:12 PM (#579727 - in reply to #579702)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


MVP

Posts: 5794
5000
Location: Manhattan
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 6:41 PM

Vic50 - 2012-10-05 5:16 PM

where do you get government allows many illegals to vote? If that happened the 2 year investigation of potential illegal votes conducted by the Republican party would have caught this and they would be screaming "holy hell"


Let me break the news to you, not only illegals vote, even dead people are voting. Reps are screaming about it non stop. Dems will do anything to continue this. If you just mention about having a personal ID at the voting place and you never hear the end of it. Yeah I know, that will prevent many Dems to vote, because they have no ID, so don't throw this at me.

I just don't get how you supposed get a legal job if you have no ID? I guess you don't need neither these days. On another thought, if you have no job or public assistance how do you survive? Because if you have some type of public assistance, you must have an ID to apply or get your money/food stamps at the cash place. So how about some ID check when voting?


Republicans have stopped discussing actual voting fraud. Several years ago the Republican party comissioned a study of votes cast in all states in a 10 year period. They hired a large number of law firms to conduct the research. The study lasted 2 years. Their report concluded that of all the votes cast in the country during this period they FOUND 350 suspect votes. That averages 35 a year, divide that by 50 states. Average less than 1 vote per year, per state.

Despite this, in a number of Republican controlled states they have gotten stringent ID voting requirements. The requirements are much more than required to obtain a job, public assistance, etc.

During a court hearing regarding the PA voting legislation, the Judge asked the Republican Secretary of State how many suspect votes were cast in recent elections. His answer, under oath, was zero

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Vic50
Posted 2012-10-05 8:26 PM (#579728 - in reply to #579706)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


MVP

Posts: 5794
5000
Location: Manhattan
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 7:51 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 7:38 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 7:13 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 4:57 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-05 4:22 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-05 3:24 PM

Andy, maybe we are thinking in different dimensions, but I just don't get you. First you say we need to protect illegal immigrants since they work hard and sleep under the car..etc. And then you say that business pigs hire them. What do you suggest, we give them no work and let them starve? Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.


Immigrants from South of our border would not come if they didn't have millions of illegal jobs waiting for them... looking for slave laborers... Poor, and middle class do not hire illegals.... 99% of the population do not hire illegals.

But there are jobs waiting for them... So as a Government... Local or Federal... how do you clean this mess up now? after years and years illegal hiring?

So your wrong... First I say don't hire them and that's where the problem begins.... then I say I have no idea how to solve the next problem (Many experts debate this everyday... I certainly don't have an answer)... except for make them become citizens or leave... You make it sound like Business Pigs hire them out of the kindness of their hearts... it's called slave labor... Again... I've owned my own company for 30 years and NEVER hired an illegal... I've had 1000's of people working for me... even had nanny's and landscapers and house cleaners... and started building homes during the boom... and I never hired an illegal.

Unless you close the border, people will come to US for better life regardless.

Closing the border is not going to be easy... too many miles.... Walls have never done anything....The problem is hiring them to start with (with illegal intentions). Build a wall (LAWS) in Business lobby's and warehouses... Make the people hiring them enroll them for green cards... Here in North Carolina, there was a report that said tens of thousands of illegals left the state when the housing slowed... where did they go... home or where the jobs are.







Job is not the only reason they may come to US. They may come for health care too. Hospital will serve them, it has too. Also, forget about work for a second, many of them even get food stems..etc, so work is not the only incentive to come here. Still better than back home, even living in the shelter, probably better. Again, that brings the question whether the government should enforce existing laws or not? Why the government doesn't go after businesses that hire illegals? It is not like it is a secret, it is right there in the open. For crying out loud, why does the government allow many illegals to vote? Also, not only business higher them. Many private people do as well for babysitters, cleaning personal..etc. By your definition it means that a huge % of population are pigs.



Job is 99.9999999 % of the reason why they come here... I lived in Castle Park San Diego... and trust me... only illegal Mexicans going to the hospital were injured going across the border.... Your facts are way off... as soon as their caught injured, they patch them up and send them home. I don't think Illegals with Cancer or major health problems are crossing the border just to walk into a hospital... they'd be sent home anyway.

The Government allows Mexicans to work illegally because the Government is run and lobbied by Big Business PIG$!!! 35 years of Trickle down economics has destroyed much... Remember!!! The GOP Government has been in charge a lot more over the last 40 years than the Dems.

Many Private people do not hire illegals... 98% of the total population do not hire illegals to do anything... Only a percentage of rich-well off people hire illegals,,, and yes they're PIG$ because they want slave labor instead of hiring a citizen or somebody with working papers.

A percentage of the 1% are PIG$... Anyone who outsources, manufacturers over seas, monopolizes, laborizes, hire's illegals as cheap labor... anything costing American jobs, avoid paying taxes, Health or using money to corrupt the Government is a PIG in my BOOK!

You're whole voting thing is so ridicules I'm not going to bother with it.

Big Business and those looking for free labor caused this illegal problem... like they did 7 generations ago when they brought thousand of ship loads of Africans here as slaves... Christians justifying slavery!






So according to you the government is run by big business pigs and yet you want even more government. Why?

I bet they didn't show you in the liberal media how our President agreed with China and GE to manufacture jet Engines in China. And during the State of the Union address GE CEO was setting right next to Presidents wife. Or how a huge % of GM is outsourced out of US, which is by the way is mostly owned by the Government. Or how you force business overseas because of Unions, taxes, regulations, trade agreements. This is not communism, business do what they can in order to survive. So I do agree with you in a sense, but you shouldn't separate some pigs from others.


Both parties are rotten to the core.... They both fight over BS... and vote together to crush American Middle class and small business... Sorry if I'm sounding more one sided than I actually am....

And dude.. i'm not campaigning here... so your statement of me wanting more government is complete horse crap... I just state the facts.., the fact is the bigger, and more Big Business takes over the government... and crushes workers rights, the bigger the Government gets for both sides... you want a small Government, then Big Business has to have less influence... Big Business like the Koch brothers who are presently controlling and financing the GOP..... so they can pollute where they want.














Speaking of pollution.. Today Jack Welch, former CEO of GE, and certainly a charter member of the 1%, went on a moronic rant about the unemployment rate, accusing the chicago mafia of fixing the number.

Later, I learned why. He hates Democrats because Clinton/Gore stopped GE from turning the Hudson River into a complete toxic wasteland. They were already halfway there. and worse, they had to pay for some of the cleanup

He's in his eighties now, but still can fathom how someone could stop his cash cow company from one of the most pollution destructions in our nations history
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-06 10:23 AM (#579738 - in reply to #579728)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Maybe Jack Welch is convinced the numbers are fixed because that's the ethics of these big corporations.... Don't trust the Government.... Must be the Mafia..... But like the Koch Brothers and every other Toxic company, they hate regulations more than they hate taxes.... They justify the right to dump illegal toxins & waste anywhere they want... and spend billions of dollars trying to convince the populous, Government is bad... to big.... communist...

Government (The Law of, by, for the people) will never be small, when you have crooks constantly, dumping illegal waste, treat employees like slaves, use cancer causing chemicals on - in everyday consumer products, crush small business..... etc etc etc.... Government is the police, the bigger and richer and more dangerous the criminals the more police you need... What I hate about the Government...the people we voted in... is they've given these companies the laws to get away with a lot of the job and financial problems of today.

We all hate Big Government and stupid spending... But worse is the influence of Big Corporate Pigs in the Government... destroying it from within.





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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-08 8:26 AM (#579761 - in reply to #579738)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-06 12:23 PM

Maybe Jack Welch is convinced the numbers are fixed because that's the ethics of these big corporations.... Don't trust the Government.... Must be the Mafia..... But like the Koch Brothers and every other Toxic company, they hate regulations more than they hate taxes.... They justify the right to dump illegal toxins & waste anywhere they want... and spend billions of dollars trying to convince the populous, Government is bad... to big.... communist...

Government (The Law of, by, for the people) will never be small, when you have crooks constantly, dumping illegal waste, treat employees like slaves, use cancer causing chemicals on - in everyday consumer products, crush small business..... etc etc etc.... Government is the police, the bigger and richer and more dangerous the criminals the more police you need... What I hate about the Government...the people we voted in... is they've given these companies the laws to get away with a lot of the job and financial problems of today.

We all hate Big Government and stupid spending... But worse is the influence of Big Corporate Pigs in the Government... destroying it from within.



By law, companies can't merge by themselves and become so big, without government permission. Why does the government allow that? It is getting crazy these days, companies merge and become kind of mini governments. If failed it drags all of us down. It also kills competition. At this point we have so little choice. For example, there aren't that many banks you can go to anymore, or there is only a few airlines left in US compare to what it used to be.

Now, I do agree with you that the government should have certain regulations over companies. Why? Because the reason communism didn't work is because people by nature can't do what's right without incentive or strict control. Same thing here, people will do whatever is good for them, regardless if that pollutes the environment..etc. But that's not because they are rich. That's just because it is a humans nature. Of course it is not 100% true, but there is a huge % IMO.

While the government should protect, it shouldn't get too big. What private sector can do, the government will do 10 times more expensive and much less efficient. It is also very disorganized, because many people who work for the government, just don't give a sh*t. They know they can get away with stuff and keep their job and benefits. A great example of it is how the government sent Sep11 terrorist new visas after the Sep11 attacks.

Edited by Want the Cup? 2012-10-08 8:33 AM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-08 9:13 AM (#579765 - in reply to #579761)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 10:26 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-06 12:23 PM

Maybe Jack Welch is convinced the numbers are fixed because that's the ethics of these big corporations.... Don't trust the Government.... Must be the Mafia..... But like the Koch Brothers and every other Toxic company, they hate regulations more than they hate taxes.... They justify the right to dump illegal toxins & waste anywhere they want... and spend billions of dollars trying to convince the populous, Government is bad... to big.... communist...

Government (The Law of, by, for the people) will never be small, when you have crooks constantly, dumping illegal waste, treat employees like slaves, use cancer causing chemicals on - in everyday consumer products, crush small business..... etc etc etc.... Government is the police, the bigger and richer and more dangerous the criminals the more police you need... What I hate about the Government...the people we voted in... is they've given these companies the laws to get away with a lot of the job and financial problems of today.

We all hate Big Government and stupid spending... But worse is the influence of Big Corporate Pigs in the Government... destroying it from within.



By law, companies can't merge by themselves and become so big, without government permission. Why does the government allow that? It is getting crazy these days, companies merge and become kind of mini governments. If failed it drags all of us down. It also kills competition. At this point we have so little choice. For example, there aren't that many banks you can go to anymore, or there is only a few airlines left in US compare to what it used to be.

Now, I do agree with you that the government should have certain regulations over companies. Why? Because the reason communism didn't work is because people by nature can't do what's right without incentive or strict control. Same thing here, people will do whatever is good for them, regardless if that pollutes the environment..etc. But that's not because they are rich. That's just because it is a humans nature. Of course it is not 100% true, but there is a huge % IMO.

While the government should protect, it shouldn't get too big. What private sector can do, the government will do 10 times more expensive and much less efficient. It is also very disorganized, because many people who work for the government, just don't give a sh*t. They know they can get away with stuff and keep their job and benefits. A great example of it is how the government sent Sep11 terrorist new visas after the Sep11 attacks.


Good Points...

The Government is broken in some aspects... Doesn't mean it needs to be privatize... I disagree private sector independent company's do it best... 93% of all business's fail in their first 3 years... That's not a made up number. Why not just fix some of the problems within the government... Hey... Motor vehicles is great these days 15 -20 years ago they were horrible.

Business has been given the opportunity to prove itself in many industries that were once Government run and have failed miserably... You can't trust a Business person to help people who can't help themselves... the old, young, sick or dieing.... That's why we Vote in citizens to run (and or create laws) , protect those laws... that protect us from each other, foreign enemies and corporate swine.

You wonder how companies have been able to merge, become so big and crush small business owners? Trickle Down economics... Regulate and tax them less and the economy was supposed to help the little guys.... all it did was allow PIG$ to get bigger.

Have you been around really Rich people...? Get close to their country clubs? Old money.... Confederate ancestor OLD Money? Rich... entitlement, it's an ideology... and they hate the Government (Law-Of-By-For the people) thoroughly.

It's become so negative to protect or support or route for Government (Laws) these days... When nothing is perfect... My house your house, my business your business... I trust the hope of a Government, for-by-of the people, than I trust the Koch brothers and their Jihad against laws and regulations.





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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-08 9:46 AM (#579766 - in reply to #579765)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 11:13 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 10:26 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-06 12:23 PM

Maybe Jack Welch is convinced the numbers are fixed because that's the ethics of these big corporations.... Don't trust the Government.... Must be the Mafia..... But like the Koch Brothers and every other Toxic company, they hate regulations more than they hate taxes.... They justify the right to dump illegal toxins & waste anywhere they want... and spend billions of dollars trying to convince the populous, Government is bad... to big.... communist...

Government (The Law of, by, for the people) will never be small, when you have crooks constantly, dumping illegal waste, treat employees like slaves, use cancer causing chemicals on - in everyday consumer products, crush small business..... etc etc etc.... Government is the police, the bigger and richer and more dangerous the criminals the more police you need... What I hate about the Government...the people we voted in... is they've given these companies the laws to get away with a lot of the job and financial problems of today.

We all hate Big Government and stupid spending... But worse is the influence of Big Corporate Pigs in the Government... destroying it from within.



By law, companies can't merge by themselves and become so big, without government permission. Why does the government allow that? It is getting crazy these days, companies merge and become kind of mini governments. If failed it drags all of us down. It also kills competition. At this point we have so little choice. For example, there aren't that many banks you can go to anymore, or there is only a few airlines left in US compare to what it used to be.

Now, I do agree with you that the government should have certain regulations over companies. Why? Because the reason communism didn't work is because people by nature can't do what's right without incentive or strict control. Same thing here, people will do whatever is good for them, regardless if that pollutes the environment..etc. But that's not because they are rich. That's just because it is a humans nature. Of course it is not 100% true, but there is a huge % IMO.

While the government should protect, it shouldn't get too big. What private sector can do, the government will do 10 times more expensive and much less efficient. It is also very disorganized, because many people who work for the government, just don't give a sh*t. They know they can get away with stuff and keep their job and benefits. A great example of it is how the government sent Sep11 terrorist new visas after the Sep11 attacks.


Good Points...

The Government is broken in some aspects... Doesn't mean it needs to be privatize... I disagree private sector independent company's do it best... 93% of all business's fail in their first 3 years... That's not a made up number. Why not just fix some of the problems within the government... Hey... Motor vehicles is great these days 15 -20 years ago they were horrible.

Business has been given the opportunity to prove itself in many industries that were once Government run and have failed miserably... You can't trust a Business person to help people who can't help themselves... the old, young, sick or dieing.... That's why we Vote in citizens to run (and or create laws) , protect those laws... that protect us from each other, foreign enemies and corporate swine.

You wonder how companies have been able to merge, become so big and crush small business owners? Trickle Down economics... Regulate and tax them less and the economy was supposed to help the little guys.... all it did was allow PIG$ to get bigger.

Have you been around really Rich people...? Get close to their country clubs? Old money.... Confederate ancestor OLD Money? Rich... entitlement, it's an ideology... and they hate the Government (Law-Of-By-For the people) thoroughly.

It's become so negative to protect or support or route for Government (Laws) these days... When nothing is perfect... My house your house, my business your business... I trust the hope of a Government, for-by-of the people, than I trust the Koch brothers and their Jihad against laws and regulations.




Check this link out. This is a great example of what the private sector can do VS in this case NASA that spends billions of dollars of our money, and also begs Russians for the space lift. Not saying it is as good as NASA yet, but it is a step into affordable space travel. More companies are joying this as well. I'm almost sure that the budget for this in the future will many times smaller than of NASA.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/07/us/spacex-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn...
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-08 9:58 AM (#579767 - in reply to #579766)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 11:46 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 11:13 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 10:26 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-06 12:23 PM

Maybe Jack Welch is convinced the numbers are fixed because that's the ethics of these big corporations.... Don't trust the Government.... Must be the Mafia..... But like the Koch Brothers and every other Toxic company, they hate regulations more than they hate taxes.... They justify the right to dump illegal toxins & waste anywhere they want... and spend billions of dollars trying to convince the populous, Government is bad... to big.... communist...

Government (The Law of, by, for the people) will never be small, when you have crooks constantly, dumping illegal waste, treat employees like slaves, use cancer causing chemicals on - in everyday consumer products, crush small business..... etc etc etc.... Government is the police, the bigger and richer and more dangerous the criminals the more police you need... What I hate about the Government...the people we voted in... is they've given these companies the laws to get away with a lot of the job and financial problems of today.

We all hate Big Government and stupid spending... But worse is the influence of Big Corporate Pigs in the Government... destroying it from within.



By law, companies can't merge by themselves and become so big, without government permission. Why does the government allow that? It is getting crazy these days, companies merge and become kind of mini governments. If failed it drags all of us down. It also kills competition. At this point we have so little choice. For example, there aren't that many banks you can go to anymore, or there is only a few airlines left in US compare to what it used to be.

Now, I do agree with you that the government should have certain regulations over companies. Why? Because the reason communism didn't work is because people by nature can't do what's right without incentive or strict control. Same thing here, people will do whatever is good for them, regardless if that pollutes the environment..etc. But that's not because they are rich. That's just because it is a humans nature. Of course it is not 100% true, but there is a huge % IMO.

While the government should protect, it shouldn't get too big. What private sector can do, the government will do 10 times more expensive and much less efficient. It is also very disorganized, because many people who work for the government, just don't give a sh*t. They know they can get away with stuff and keep their job and benefits. A great example of it is how the government sent Sep11 terrorist new visas after the Sep11 attacks.


Good Points...

The Government is broken in some aspects... Doesn't mean it needs to be privatize... I disagree private sector independent company's do it best... 93% of all business's fail in their first 3 years... That's not a made up number. Why not just fix some of the problems within the government... Hey... Motor vehicles is great these days 15 -20 years ago they were horrible.

Business has been given the opportunity to prove itself in many industries that were once Government run and have failed miserably... You can't trust a Business person to help people who can't help themselves... the old, young, sick or dieing.... That's why we Vote in citizens to run (and or create laws) , protect those laws... that protect us from each other, foreign enemies and corporate swine.

You wonder how companies have been able to merge, become so big and crush small business owners? Trickle Down economics... Regulate and tax them less and the economy was supposed to help the little guys.... all it did was allow PIG$ to get bigger.

Have you been around really Rich people...? Get close to their country clubs? Old money.... Confederate ancestor OLD Money? Rich... entitlement, it's an ideology... and they hate the Government (Law-Of-By-For the people) thoroughly.

It's become so negative to protect or support or route for Government (Laws) these days... When nothing is perfect... My house your house, my business your business... I trust the hope of a Government, for-by-of the people, than I trust the Koch brothers and their Jihad against laws and regulations.




Check this link out. This is a great example of what the private sector can do VS in this case NASA that spends billions of dollars of our money, and also begs Russians for the space lift. Not saying it is as good as NASA yet, but it is a step into affordable space travel. More companies are joying this as well. I'm almost sure that the budget for this in the future will many times smaller than of NASA.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/07/us/spacex-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn...


Well.. This is one sector I think should be Private.... and one day will be better than NASA.

I believe Private Sector can help with certain things, also the Government needs to be more efficient in others. That's what the GOP used to be until they became just as guilty as the Libs and their big untidy Government....





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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-08 10:03 AM (#579768 - in reply to #579767)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 11:58 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 11:46 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 11:13 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 10:26 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-06 12:23 PM

Maybe Jack Welch is convinced the numbers are fixed because that's the ethics of these big corporations.... Don't trust the Government.... Must be the Mafia..... But like the Koch Brothers and every other Toxic company, they hate regulations more than they hate taxes.... They justify the right to dump illegal toxins & waste anywhere they want... and spend billions of dollars trying to convince the populous, Government is bad... to big.... communist...

Government (The Law of, by, for the people) will never be small, when you have crooks constantly, dumping illegal waste, treat employees like slaves, use cancer causing chemicals on - in everyday consumer products, crush small business..... etc etc etc.... Government is the police, the bigger and richer and more dangerous the criminals the more police you need... What I hate about the Government...the people we voted in... is they've given these companies the laws to get away with a lot of the job and financial problems of today.

We all hate Big Government and stupid spending... But worse is the influence of Big Corporate Pigs in the Government... destroying it from within.



By law, companies can't merge by themselves and become so big, without government permission. Why does the government allow that? It is getting crazy these days, companies merge and become kind of mini governments. If failed it drags all of us down. It also kills competition. At this point we have so little choice. For example, there aren't that many banks you can go to anymore, or there is only a few airlines left in US compare to what it used to be.

Now, I do agree with you that the government should have certain regulations over companies. Why? Because the reason communism didn't work is because people by nature can't do what's right without incentive or strict control. Same thing here, people will do whatever is good for them, regardless if that pollutes the environment..etc. But that's not because they are rich. That's just because it is a humans nature. Of course it is not 100% true, but there is a huge % IMO.

While the government should protect, it shouldn't get too big. What private sector can do, the government will do 10 times more expensive and much less efficient. It is also very disorganized, because many people who work for the government, just don't give a sh*t. They know they can get away with stuff and keep their job and benefits. A great example of it is how the government sent Sep11 terrorist new visas after the Sep11 attacks.


Good Points...

The Government is broken in some aspects... Doesn't mean it needs to be privatize... I disagree private sector independent company's do it best... 93% of all business's fail in their first 3 years... That's not a made up number. Why not just fix some of the problems within the government... Hey... Motor vehicles is great these days 15 -20 years ago they were horrible.

Business has been given the opportunity to prove itself in many industries that were once Government run and have failed miserably... You can't trust a Business person to help people who can't help themselves... the old, young, sick or dieing.... That's why we Vote in citizens to run (and or create laws) , protect those laws... that protect us from each other, foreign enemies and corporate swine.

You wonder how companies have been able to merge, become so big and crush small business owners? Trickle Down economics... Regulate and tax them less and the economy was supposed to help the little guys.... all it did was allow PIG$ to get bigger.

Have you been around really Rich people...? Get close to their country clubs? Old money.... Confederate ancestor OLD Money? Rich... entitlement, it's an ideology... and they hate the Government (Law-Of-By-For the people) thoroughly.

It's become so negative to protect or support or route for Government (Laws) these days... When nothing is perfect... My house your house, my business your business... I trust the hope of a Government, for-by-of the people, than I trust the Koch brothers and their Jihad against laws and regulations.




Check this link out. This is a great example of what the private sector can do VS in this case NASA that spends billions of dollars of our money, and also begs Russians for the space lift. Not saying it is as good as NASA yet, but it is a step into affordable space travel. More companies are joying this as well. I'm almost sure that the budget for this in the future will many times smaller than of NASA.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/07/us/spacex-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn...


Well.. This is one sector I think should be Private.... and one day will be better than NASA.

I believe Private Sector can help with certain things, also the Government needs to be more efficient in others. That's what the GOP used to be until they became just as guilty as the Libs and their big untidy Government....




In what sectors do you think the government should be in and be better than private sector, besides things like laws and regulations?

Edited by Want the Cup? 2012-10-08 10:04 AM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-08 11:23 AM (#579769 - in reply to #579768)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 12:03 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 11:58 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 11:46 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 11:13 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 10:26 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-06 12:23 PM

Maybe Jack Welch is convinced the numbers are fixed because that's the ethics of these big corporations.... Don't trust the Government.... Must be the Mafia..... But like the Koch Brothers and every other Toxic company, they hate regulations more than they hate taxes.... They justify the right to dump illegal toxins & waste anywhere they want... and spend billions of dollars trying to convince the populous, Government is bad... to big.... communist...

Government (The Law of, by, for the people) will never be small, when you have crooks constantly, dumping illegal waste, treat employees like slaves, use cancer causing chemicals on - in everyday consumer products, crush small business..... etc etc etc.... Government is the police, the bigger and richer and more dangerous the criminals the more police you need... What I hate about the Government...the people we voted in... is they've given these companies the laws to get away with a lot of the job and financial problems of today.

We all hate Big Government and stupid spending... But worse is the influence of Big Corporate Pigs in the Government... destroying it from within.



By law, companies can't merge by themselves and become so big, without government permission. Why does the government allow that? It is getting crazy these days, companies merge and become kind of mini governments. If failed it drags all of us down. It also kills competition. At this point we have so little choice. For example, there aren't that many banks you can go to anymore, or there is only a few airlines left in US compare to what it used to be.

Now, I do agree with you that the government should have certain regulations over companies. Why? Because the reason communism didn't work is because people by nature can't do what's right without incentive or strict control. Same thing here, people will do whatever is good for them, regardless if that pollutes the environment..etc. But that's not because they are rich. That's just because it is a humans nature. Of course it is not 100% true, but there is a huge % IMO.

While the government should protect, it shouldn't get too big. What private sector can do, the government will do 10 times more expensive and much less efficient. It is also very disorganized, because many people who work for the government, just don't give a sh*t. They know they can get away with stuff and keep their job and benefits. A great example of it is how the government sent Sep11 terrorist new visas after the Sep11 attacks.


Good Points...

The Government is broken in some aspects... Doesn't mean it needs to be privatize... I disagree private sector independent company's do it best... 93% of all business's fail in their first 3 years... That's not a made up number. Why not just fix some of the problems within the government... Hey... Motor vehicles is great these days 15 -20 years ago they were horrible.

Business has been given the opportunity to prove itself in many industries that were once Government run and have failed miserably... You can't trust a Business person to help people who can't help themselves... the old, young, sick or dieing.... That's why we Vote in citizens to run (and or create laws) , protect those laws... that protect us from each other, foreign enemies and corporate swine.

You wonder how companies have been able to merge, become so big and crush small business owners? Trickle Down economics... Regulate and tax them less and the economy was supposed to help the little guys.... all it did was allow PIG$ to get bigger.

Have you been around really Rich people...? Get close to their country clubs? Old money.... Confederate ancestor OLD Money? Rich... entitlement, it's an ideology... and they hate the Government (Law-Of-By-For the people) thoroughly.

It's become so negative to protect or support or route for Government (Laws) these days... When nothing is perfect... My house your house, my business your business... I trust the hope of a Government, for-by-of the people, than I trust the Koch brothers and their Jihad against laws and regulations.




Check this link out. This is a great example of what the private sector can do VS in this case NASA that spends billions of dollars of our money, and also begs Russians for the space lift. Not saying it is as good as NASA yet, but it is a step into affordable space travel. More companies are joying this as well. I'm almost sure that the budget for this in the future will many times smaller than of NASA.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/07/us/spacex-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn...


Well.. This is one sector I think should be Private.... and one day will be better than NASA.

I believe Private Sector can help with certain things, also the Government needs to be more efficient in others. That's what the GOP used to be until they became just as guilty as the Libs and their big untidy Government....




In what sectors do you think the government should be in and be better than private sector, besides things like laws and regulations?



Anything that has to do with the welfare of people who can not help themselves... which can become you or me or family or friends, at anytime of our lives....when they get old or sick or for reasons out of our control unable to take care of ourselves..... like injured in war. Rich people lobbying for control of these sectors, will never understand how it is, not to have a safety blanket.... again, goes back to the extremely rich and their beliefs and ideology's.... SCREW THE POOR AND NEEDY!!!!!

It's a disgrace that a business will take a home from someone, because they became ill... and paid insurance for their whole lives, just to get screwed by "Private Sector" for some unseen hidden amendment in a 700 page insurance agreement.

A Private Sector will get the best lawyers to write the most confusing contracts... and people say to themselves... well, this should be legal... The government wouldn't allow companies to screw me at my age or situation.

Private Sector will always figure out a way to come out on the winning end because they can afford to legally do so.... and the only real ethic is profit and coming out on the winning end even if wrong. They want the business, but don't want to be held accountable for anything.

Like... Forced Arbitration..... Another beauty by your wonderful Private Sector... Most all contracts now have a clause for "forced arbitration" meaning... the employee or consumer is bound to an in-house arbitrator while they can still use a court of law on you... once you sign a contract (Doctors office, hospital visit, a new job, joining a gym... applying for a credit card etc etc etc).. in small print on the very last page your signing away your rights to take them to court and disputes must be settle with their Arbitrator....

Forced arbitration severely limits you on options for resolving a dispute with malpractice, human rights, consumer rights etc etc etc.... Forced arbitration also does not follow a clear understandable set of rules and laws required by litigation in the court system... like a fair judge..... and Forced arbitration cost more than taking a case to court....

In other words, the Private Sector has figured out a way how to screw Americans from the most American right, the right to take a dispute to litigation in a Government court of Law.

Private Sector may be cheaper and or more efficient (not always).... but they are definitely not for, of, by the people... and will always find another loophole in the laws, and the Government will need to study it and pass a law, then another loop-hole on how to ram a pole up our asses will come out, and the Government will need another 2 years to pass a regulation that did major damage before it was stopped....

Private Sector is like a virus, always looking for a way to get past the immune system. I just don't understand all this trust and love for Private Sector... it's simply propaganda spread by ......Private Sector.... I believe and support small American business... not Giant "Private Sector" companies (with international influence) that have more profit and power than most countries.









Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-10-08 12:27 PM
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-08 12:25 PM (#579772 - in reply to #579769)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 1:23 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 12:03 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 11:58 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 11:46 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 11:13 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 10:26 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-06 12:23 PM

Maybe Jack Welch is convinced the numbers are fixed because that's the ethics of these big corporations.... Don't trust the Government.... Must be the Mafia..... But like the Koch Brothers and every other Toxic company, they hate regulations more than they hate taxes.... They justify the right to dump illegal toxins & waste anywhere they want... and spend billions of dollars trying to convince the populous, Government is bad... to big.... communist...

Government (The Law of, by, for the people) will never be small, when you have crooks constantly, dumping illegal waste, treat employees like slaves, use cancer causing chemicals on - in everyday consumer products, crush small business..... etc etc etc.... Government is the police, the bigger and richer and more dangerous the criminals the more police you need... What I hate about the Government...the people we voted in... is they've given these companies the laws to get away with a lot of the job and financial problems of today.

We all hate Big Government and stupid spending... But worse is the influence of Big Corporate Pigs in the Government... destroying it from within.



By law, companies can't merge by themselves and become so big, without government permission. Why does the government allow that? It is getting crazy these days, companies merge and become kind of mini governments. If failed it drags all of us down. It also kills competition. At this point we have so little choice. For example, there aren't that many banks you can go to anymore, or there is only a few airlines left in US compare to what it used to be.

Now, I do agree with you that the government should have certain regulations over companies. Why? Because the reason communism didn't work is because people by nature can't do what's right without incentive or strict control. Same thing here, people will do whatever is good for them, regardless if that pollutes the environment..etc. But that's not because they are rich. That's just because it is a humans nature. Of course it is not 100% true, but there is a huge % IMO.

While the government should protect, it shouldn't get too big. What private sector can do, the government will do 10 times more expensive and much less efficient. It is also very disorganized, because many people who work for the government, just don't give a sh*t. They know they can get away with stuff and keep their job and benefits. A great example of it is how the government sent Sep11 terrorist new visas after the Sep11 attacks.


Good Points...

The Government is broken in some aspects... Doesn't mean it needs to be privatize... I disagree private sector independent company's do it best... 93% of all business's fail in their first 3 years... That's not a made up number. Why not just fix some of the problems within the government... Hey... Motor vehicles is great these days 15 -20 years ago they were horrible.

Business has been given the opportunity to prove itself in many industries that were once Government run and have failed miserably... You can't trust a Business person to help people who can't help themselves... the old, young, sick or dieing.... That's why we Vote in citizens to run (and or create laws) , protect those laws... that protect us from each other, foreign enemies and corporate swine.

You wonder how companies have been able to merge, become so big and crush small business owners? Trickle Down economics... Regulate and tax them less and the economy was supposed to help the little guys.... all it did was allow PIG$ to get bigger.

Have you been around really Rich people...? Get close to their country clubs? Old money.... Confederate ancestor OLD Money? Rich... entitlement, it's an ideology... and they hate the Government (Law-Of-By-For the people) thoroughly.

It's become so negative to protect or support or route for Government (Laws) these days... When nothing is perfect... My house your house, my business your business... I trust the hope of a Government, for-by-of the people, than I trust the Koch brothers and their Jihad against laws and regulations.




Check this link out. This is a great example of what the private sector can do VS in this case NASA that spends billions of dollars of our money, and also begs Russians for the space lift. Not saying it is as good as NASA yet, but it is a step into affordable space travel. More companies are joying this as well. I'm almost sure that the budget for this in the future will many times smaller than of NASA.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/07/us/spacex-launch/index.html?hpt=hp_bn...


Well.. This is one sector I think should be Private.... and one day will be better than NASA.

I believe Private Sector can help with certain things, also the Government needs to be more efficient in others. That's what the GOP used to be until they became just as guilty as the Libs and their big untidy Government....




In what sectors do you think the government should be in and be better than private sector, besides things like laws and regulations?



Anything that has to do with the welfare of people who can not help themselves... which can become you or me or family or friends, at anytime of our lives....when they get old or sick or for reasons out of our control unable to take care of ourselves..... like injured in war. Rich people lobbying for control of these sectors, will never understand how it is, not to have a safety blanket.... again, goes back to the extremely rich and their beliefs and ideology's.... SCREW THE POOR AND NEEDY!!!!!

It's a disgrace that a business will take a home from someone, because they became ill... and paid insurance for their whole lives, just to get screwed by "Private Sector" for some unseen hidden amendment in a 700 page insurance agreement.

A Private Sector will get the best lawyers to write the most confusing contracts... and people say to themselves... well, this should be legal... The government wouldn't allow companies to screw me at my age or situation.

Private Sector will always figure out a way to come out on the winning end because they can afford to legally do so.... and the only real ethic is profit and coming out on the winning end even if wrong.

Like... Forced Arbitration..... Another beauty by your wonderful Private Sector... Most all contracts now have a clause for "forced arbitration" meaning... the employee or consumer is bound to an in-house arbitrator while they can still use a court of law on you... once you sign a contract (Doctors office, hospital visit, a new job, joining a gym... applying for a credit card etc etc etc).. in small print on the very last page your signing away your rights to take them to court and disputes must be settle with their Arbitrator....

Forced arbitration severely limits you on options for resolving a dispute with malpractice, human rights, consumer rights etc etc etc.... Forced arbitration also does not follow a clear understandable set of rules and laws required by litigation in the court system... like a fair judge..... and Forced arbitration cost more than taking a case to court....

In other words, the Private Sector has figured out a way how to screw Americans from the most American right, the right to take someone to court.

Private Sector may be cheaper and or more efficient .... but they are definitely not for, of, by the people... and will always find another loophole in the laws, and the Government will need to study it and pass a law, then another loop-hole on how to ram a pole up our asses will come out, and the Government will need another 2 years to pass a regulation that did major damage before it was stopped....

Private Sector is like a virus, always looking for a way to get past the immune system.



I can live with your point of what the government should be involved with, just as long as it doesn't go outside of it. Also, I believe as well that people should get help, but it shouldn't become a life style, unless a person is sick or injured. There are people in stores pay with food stems and then drive away on expensive cars. Work off the books and get assistance is just not right. Many do it, make no mistake about it. Government does very little to stop it. So it works both ways, rich and not rich.

Now, private sector is not immune as you think it is. For example, those doctors you mentioned get sued all the time by individuals. One person may get 100 of thousands of dollars. BTW, that's one of the reasons why our health care is so expensive. Not saying it is wrong or it shouldn't be, but in many case just the wind blows and they sue out of nothing. At work place people sue all the time, in many case for nothing, just to get money. Same thing with car insurances. You have a minor accident, and people start pretending like they are dying. Go to hospitals and then sue as well. I heard a few instances where there was a minor car accident and the wife of the driver who is like over 60, is now suing because she claims that the accident made her husband not to be able to perform in bed. This is just ridicules.

The only difference between me and you is that you think the rich are pigs, and I think that lots of people would behave as pigs, given the chance. Regardless of their financial status, race or gender.

Edited by Want the Cup? 2012-10-08 12:33 PM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-08 12:45 PM (#579773 - in reply to #579772)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 2:25 PM

I can live with your point of what the government should be involved with, just as long as it doesn't go outside of it. Also, I believe as well that people should get help, but it shouldn't become a life style, unless a person is sick or injured. I see people in stores pay with food stems and then drive away on expensive cars. Work off the books and get assistance is just not right. Many do it, make no mistake about it. Government does very little to stop it. So it works both ways, rich and not rich.

Now, private sector is not immune as you think it is. For example, those doctors you mentioned get sued all the time by individuals. One person may get 100 of thousands of dollars. BTW, that's one of the reasons why our health care is so expensive. Not saying it is wrong or it shouldn't be, but in many case just the wind blows and they sue out of nothing. At work place people sue all the time, in many case for nothing, just to get money. Same thing with car insurances. You have a minor accident, and people start pretending like they are dying. Go to hospitals and then sue as well. I heard a few instances where there was a minor car accident and the wife of the driver who is like over 60, is now suing because she claims that the accident made her husband not to be able to perform in bed. This is just ridicules.

The only difference between me and you is that you think the rich are pigs, and I think that lots of people would behave as pigs, given the chance. Regardless of their financial status, race or gender.


Again .... I don't think all rich are PIG$.... and I do believe if some people were in the same situation they would do the same.... But again....when I say PIG$... I mean people like the Koch brothers that simply want no laws or regulations... that have been fined Billions for dumping toxic waste in our waterways.... and spend much money on supporting and creating those who discredit and disrupt Government with no positive or creative solution. Outsourcing jobs... manufacturing overseas... hiring illegals are all PIG$... any one who profits on others weakness's and vulnerability... PIG$.

I don't think all people with Money have this Power Play to destroy the Government... or profit on misery.... 1% of the 1%... But that 1% is powerful enough to do major damage.










Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-10-08 12:54 PM
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-08 1:17 PM (#579775 - in reply to #579773)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 2:45 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 2:25 PM

I can live with your point of what the government should be involved with, just as long as it doesn't go outside of it. Also, I believe as well that people should get help, but it shouldn't become a life style, unless a person is sick or injured. I see people in stores pay with food stems and then drive away on expensive cars. Work off the books and get assistance is just not right. Many do it, make no mistake about it. Government does very little to stop it. So it works both ways, rich and not rich.

Now, private sector is not immune as you think it is. For example, those doctors you mentioned get sued all the time by individuals. One person may get 100 of thousands of dollars. BTW, that's one of the reasons why our health care is so expensive. Not saying it is wrong or it shouldn't be, but in many case just the wind blows and they sue out of nothing. At work place people sue all the time, in many case for nothing, just to get money. Same thing with car insurances. You have a minor accident, and people start pretending like they are dying. Go to hospitals and then sue as well. I heard a few instances where there was a minor car accident and the wife of the driver who is like over 60, is now suing because she claims that the accident made her husband not to be able to perform in bed. This is just ridicules.

The only difference between me and you is that you think the rich are pigs, and I think that lots of people would behave as pigs, given the chance. Regardless of their financial status, race or gender.


Again .... I don't think all rich are PIG$.... and I do believe if some people were in the same situation they would do the same.... But again....when I say PIG$... I mean people like the Koch brothers that simply want no laws or regulations... that have been fined Billions for dumping toxic waste in our waterways.... and spend much money on supporting and creating those who discredit and disrupt Government with no positive or creative solution. Outsourcing jobs... manufacturing overseas... hiring illegals are all PIG$... any one who profits on others weakness's and vulnerability... PIG$.

I don't think all people with Money have this Power Play to destroy the Government... or profit on misery.... 1% of the 1%... But that 1% is powerful enough to do major damage.



So you think people should not outsource overseas because they should think about the country first? Give a break, it won't happen, this is capitalism. Like I told you, people will do what's best for them. You can only make them do the opposite if you control it. Just like in Hockey, do you blame Nash for taking 8m? No. Sather gave him and he took it. Or he should of say, "you know Sather, I know things are bad now, 5m will be enough for me". Is he a pig? You allow people to outsource, they will do it, especially if you need to compete with China and other companies. You want outsourcing to stop? Me too. But who creates the trade agreements? Congress does with the President. Change that and you won't have that much outsourcing.

Edited by Want the Cup? 2012-10-08 1:19 PM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-08 2:18 PM (#579776 - in reply to #579775)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 3:17 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 2:45 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 2:25 PM

I can live with your point of what the government should be involved with, just as long as it doesn't go outside of it. Also, I believe as well that people should get help, but it shouldn't become a life style, unless a person is sick or injured. I see people in stores pay with food stems and then drive away on expensive cars. Work off the books and get assistance is just not right. Many do it, make no mistake about it. Government does very little to stop it. So it works both ways, rich and not rich.

Now, private sector is not immune as you think it is. For example, those doctors you mentioned get sued all the time by individuals. One person may get 100 of thousands of dollars. BTW, that's one of the reasons why our health care is so expensive. Not saying it is wrong or it shouldn't be, but in many case just the wind blows and they sue out of nothing. At work place people sue all the time, in many case for nothing, just to get money. Same thing with car insurances. You have a minor accident, and people start pretending like they are dying. Go to hospitals and then sue as well. I heard a few instances where there was a minor car accident and the wife of the driver who is like over 60, is now suing because she claims that the accident made her husband not to be able to perform in bed. This is just ridicules.

The only difference between me and you is that you think the rich are pigs, and I think that lots of people would behave as pigs, given the chance. Regardless of their financial status, race or gender.


Again .... I don't think all rich are PIG$.... and I do believe if some people were in the same situation they would do the same.... But again....when I say PIG$... I mean people like the Koch brothers that simply want no laws or regulations... that have been fined Billions for dumping toxic waste in our waterways.... and spend much money on supporting and creating those who discredit and disrupt Government with no positive or creative solution. Outsourcing jobs... manufacturing overseas... hiring illegals are all PIG$... any one who profits on others weakness's and vulnerability... PIG$.

I don't think all people with Money have this Power Play to destroy the Government... or profit on misery.... 1% of the 1%... But that 1% is powerful enough to do major damage.



So you think people should not outsource overseas because they should think about the country first? Give a break, it won't happen, this is capitalism. Like I told you, people will do what's best for them. You can only make them do the opposite if you control it. Just like in Hockey, do you blame Nash for taking 8m? No. Sather gave him and he took it. Or he should of say, "you know Sather, I know things are bad now, 5m will be enough for me". Is he a pig? You allow people to outsource, they will do it, especially if you need to compete with China and other companies. You want outsourcing to stop? Me too. But who creates the trade agreements? Congress does with the President. Change that and you won't have that much outsourcing.


Outsourcing is just one thing companies do... I've been to Shenzhen P.R.C (China), I have friends who manufacturer products in there... Of course at this point there's really no other option. I understand it... don't like it and think the only way to stop it is to reward companies that will manufacturer here... They say in the next 3-4 years it'll be cheaper to manufacturer in the Southern states than China anyways.... My friends are PIG$... and they will justify it.

So you made a great point with your first sentence... Business "Private Sector" does not think of Country first.... Capitalism.... Government should always be country first... Americans first and this PIG$ experiment of Trickle Down economics... less regulations and taxes.. both sides of the government allowed... failed. It was supposed to create more American jobs when all it did was allow companies to monopolize, killing millions of small business and opportunities. Kill millions of American jobs and workers rights.

If capitalism is allowed to harm American jobs, future and prosperity then it's failed also.

But here's the big question, If the Government is Of, By, For the people... wouldn't we, the majority of the people vote in people to protect ourselves from danger? Isn't that the whole idea? But big Business --- private sector will say it's communism...

...Does any working American think outsourcing or manufacturing or hiring illegals is a good idea, or deregulating companies from poisoning our waterways, medicines and consumer products from toxin chemicals? Do you really think those PIG$ taxed less will use it to create more American "trickle down" jobs.... ? NO... because 35 years have shown they've done the complete opposite.

Only those brain washed - VOTE against their own rights driven by racism and fear of socialism... and complete ignorance.... financed by PIG$!!!! You gotta admit, the PIG$ are spending a lot of money to have people vote against their own rights.






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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-08 2:34 PM (#579778 - in reply to #579776)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 4:18 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 3:17 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 2:45 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 2:25 PM

I can live with your point of what the government should be involved with, just as long as it doesn't go outside of it. Also, I believe as well that people should get help, but it shouldn't become a life style, unless a person is sick or injured. I see people in stores pay with food stems and then drive away on expensive cars. Work off the books and get assistance is just not right. Many do it, make no mistake about it. Government does very little to stop it. So it works both ways, rich and not rich.

Now, private sector is not immune as you think it is. For example, those doctors you mentioned get sued all the time by individuals. One person may get 100 of thousands of dollars. BTW, that's one of the reasons why our health care is so expensive. Not saying it is wrong or it shouldn't be, but in many case just the wind blows and they sue out of nothing. At work place people sue all the time, in many case for nothing, just to get money. Same thing with car insurances. You have a minor accident, and people start pretending like they are dying. Go to hospitals and then sue as well. I heard a few instances where there was a minor car accident and the wife of the driver who is like over 60, is now suing because she claims that the accident made her husband not to be able to perform in bed. This is just ridicules.

The only difference between me and you is that you think the rich are pigs, and I think that lots of people would behave as pigs, given the chance. Regardless of their financial status, race or gender.


Again .... I don't think all rich are PIG$.... and I do believe if some people were in the same situation they would do the same.... But again....when I say PIG$... I mean people like the Koch brothers that simply want no laws or regulations... that have been fined Billions for dumping toxic waste in our waterways.... and spend much money on supporting and creating those who discredit and disrupt Government with no positive or creative solution. Outsourcing jobs... manufacturing overseas... hiring illegals are all PIG$... any one who profits on others weakness's and vulnerability... PIG$.

I don't think all people with Money have this Power Play to destroy the Government... or profit on misery.... 1% of the 1%... But that 1% is powerful enough to do major damage.



So you think people should not outsource overseas because they should think about the country first? Give a break, it won't happen, this is capitalism. Like I told you, people will do what's best for them. You can only make them do the opposite if you control it. Just like in Hockey, do you blame Nash for taking 8m? No. Sather gave him and he took it. Or he should of say, "you know Sather, I know things are bad now, 5m will be enough for me". Is he a pig? You allow people to outsource, they will do it, especially if you need to compete with China and other companies. You want outsourcing to stop? Me too. But who creates the trade agreements? Congress does with the President. Change that and you won't have that much outsourcing.


Outsourcing is just one thing companies do... I've been to Shenzhen P.R.C (China), I have friends who manufacturer products in there... Of course at this point there's really no other option. I understand it... don't like it and think the only way to stop it is to reward companies that will manufacturer here... They say in the next 3-4 years it'll be cheaper to manufacturer in the Southern states than China anyways.... My friends are PIG$... and they will justify it.

So you made a great point with your first sentence... Business "Private Sector" does not think of Country first.... Capitalism.... Government should always be country first... Americans first and this PIG$ experiment of Trickle Down economics... less regulations and taxes.. both sides of the government allowed... failed. It was supposed to create more American jobs when all it did was allow companies to monopolize, killing millions of small business and opportunities. Kill millions of American jobs and workers rights.

If capitalism is allowed to harm American jobs, future and prosperity then it's failed also.

But here's the big question, If the Government is Of, By, For the people... wouldn't we, the majority of the people vote in people to protect ourselves from danger? Isn't that the whole idea? But big Business --- private sector will say it's communism...

...Does any working American think outsourcing or manufacturing or hiring illegals is a good idea, or deregulating companies from poisoning our waterways, medicines and consumer products from toxin chemicals? Do you really think those PIG$ taxed less will use it to create more American "trickle down" jobs.... ? NO... because 35 years have shown they've done the complete opposite.

Only those brain washed - VOTE against their own rights driven by racism and fear of socialism... and complete ignorance.... financed by PIG$!!!! You gotta admit, the PIG$ are spending a lot of money to have people vote against their own rights.



You can vote all you want, it won't change anything. The government allowed that and the government will continue it. You said it yourself, that both sides are at fault. Clinton did a ton to move stuff to China, so as the Reps. There are only two choices, and neither will change that. How do you find a way out?
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-08 5:38 PM (#579783 - in reply to #579778)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 4:34 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 4:18 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 3:17 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-08 2:45 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-08 2:25 PM

I can live with your point of what the government should be involved with, just as long as it doesn't go outside of it. Also, I believe as well that people should get help, but it shouldn't become a life style, unless a person is sick or injured. I see people in stores pay with food stems and then drive away on expensive cars. Work off the books and get assistance is just not right. Many do it, make no mistake about it. Government does very little to stop it. So it works both ways, rich and not rich.

Now, private sector is not immune as you think it is. For example, those doctors you mentioned get sued all the time by individuals. One person may get 100 of thousands of dollars. BTW, that's one of the reasons why our health care is so expensive. Not saying it is wrong or it shouldn't be, but in many case just the wind blows and they sue out of nothing. At work place people sue all the time, in many case for nothing, just to get money. Same thing with car insurances. You have a minor accident, and people start pretending like they are dying. Go to hospitals and then sue as well. I heard a few instances where there was a minor car accident and the wife of the driver who is like over 60, is now suing because she claims that the accident made her husband not to be able to perform in bed. This is just ridicules.

The only difference between me and you is that you think the rich are pigs, and I think that lots of people would behave as pigs, given the chance. Regardless of their financial status, race or gender.


Again .... I don't think all rich are PIG$.... and I do believe if some people were in the same situation they would do the same.... But again....when I say PIG$... I mean people like the Koch brothers that simply want no laws or regulations... that have been fined Billions for dumping toxic waste in our waterways.... and spend much money on supporting and creating those who discredit and disrupt Government with no positive or creative solution. Outsourcing jobs... manufacturing overseas... hiring illegals are all PIG$... any one who profits on others weakness's and vulnerability... PIG$.

I don't think all people with Money have this Power Play to destroy the Government... or profit on misery.... 1% of the 1%... But that 1% is powerful enough to do major damage.



So you think people should not outsource overseas because they should think about the country first? Give a break, it won't happen, this is capitalism. Like I told you, people will do what's best for them. You can only make them do the opposite if you control it. Just like in Hockey, do you blame Nash for taking 8m? No. Sather gave him and he took it. Or he should of say, "you know Sather, I know things are bad now, 5m will be enough for me". Is he a pig? You allow people to outsource, they will do it, especially if you need to compete with China and other companies. You want outsourcing to stop? Me too. But who creates the trade agreements? Congress does with the President. Change that and you won't have that much outsourcing.


Outsourcing is just one thing companies do... I've been to Shenzhen P.R.C (China), I have friends who manufacturer products in there... Of course at this point there's really no other option. I understand it... don't like it and think the only way to stop it is to reward companies that will manufacturer here... They say in the next 3-4 years it'll be cheaper to manufacturer in the Southern states than China anyways.... My friends are PIG$... and they will justify it.

So you made a great point with your first sentence... Business "Private Sector" does not think of Country first.... Capitalism.... Government should always be country first... Americans first and this PIG$ experiment of Trickle Down economics... less regulations and taxes.. both sides of the government allowed... failed. It was supposed to create more American jobs when all it did was allow companies to monopolize, killing millions of small business and opportunities. Kill millions of American jobs and workers rights.

If capitalism is allowed to harm American jobs, future and prosperity then it's failed also.

But here's the big question, If the Government is Of, By, For the people... wouldn't we, the majority of the people vote in people to protect ourselves from danger? Isn't that the whole idea? But big Business --- private sector will say it's communism...

...Does any working American think outsourcing or manufacturing or hiring illegals is a good idea, or deregulating companies from poisoning our waterways, medicines and consumer products from toxin chemicals? Do you really think those PIG$ taxed less will use it to create more American "trickle down" jobs.... ? NO... because 35 years have shown they've done the complete opposite.

Only those brain washed - VOTE against their own rights driven by racism and fear of socialism... and complete ignorance.... financed by PIG$!!!! You gotta admit, the PIG$ are spending a lot of money to have people vote against their own rights.



You can vote all you want, it won't change anything. The government allowed that and the government will continue it. You said it yourself, that both sides are at fault. Clinton did a ton to move stuff to China, so as the Reps. There are only two choices, and neither will change that. How do you find a way out?


Just because there's only two sides doesn't mean you have to sell your soul to either side... Since I've had kids, and now have to have a little respect for "Government"... for my kids sake... it's made me research and understand the very essence of Democracy, the Constitution and the Branches of Government... and the never ending war between the Corporate big business mind set that started with Slavery, the expansion of the west, and railroads and the Government that has always been demonized as being to interfering... to big etc etc etc... The Civil War was fought for many of the same issues people complain about today. You have to understand the past in order to understand the present, the further you step back, the more you see.

Jefferson owned 300 slaves in his life... but knew it was wrong, if the Constitution were to last the test of time Slavery had to go.... but nothing could be done in his own lifetime..... what he discovered later in life was that greed, entitlement and free enterprise were the most dangerous obstacles to a Democracy because of the immediate threat of corruption.







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Vic50
Posted 2012-10-08 8:52 PM (#579787 - in reply to #579776)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


MVP

Posts: 5794
5000
Location: Manhattan
A lot of people who rail against socialism don't understand what it really is. Allowing exemptions on your tax return for dependent children is an example of socialism.

All nations have some mix of capitalism & socialism. The Scandavian countries(not France) are the most socialistic In Europe, and surveys have them as the happiest people in the world.
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pack attack
Posted 2012-10-08 9:08 PM (#579788 - in reply to #579787)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


Administrator Emeritus

Posts: 15473
10000
mike check!

Wow, OTG has its own little occupy movement going on.

The aroma of patchouli and borscht is strong.
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pack attack
Posted 2012-10-08 9:08 PM (#579789 - in reply to #579787)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


Administrator Emeritus

Posts: 15473
10000
Vic50 - 2012-10-08 10:52 PM

A lot of people who rail against socialism don't understand what it really is. Allowing exemptions on your tax return for dependent children is an example of socialism.

All nations have some mix of capitalism & socialism. The Scandavian countries(not France) are the most socialistic In Europe, and surveys have them as the happiest people in the world.


Keeping one's earned money from the confiscation of a bloated federal government is not socialism — it is called freedom and liberty. Gee, people earning money, and wanting to take care of the family, or do whatever they want to do with their money ----what a concept.

The only way you can make that statement is to start with the default position that all money is the government's.
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-08 10:31 PM (#579791 - in reply to #579789)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
pack attack - 2012-10-08 11:08 PM

Vic50 - 2012-10-08 10:52 PM

A lot of people who rail against socialism don't understand what it really is. Allowing exemptions on your tax return for dependent children is an example of socialism.

All nations have some mix of capitalism & socialism. The Scandavian countries(not France) are the most socialistic In Europe, and surveys have them as the happiest people in the world.


Keeping one's earned money from the confiscation of a bloated federal government is not socialism — it is called freedom and liberty. Gee, people earning money, and wanting to take care of the family, or do whatever they want to do with their money ----what a concept.

The only way you can make that statement is to start with the default position that all money is the government's.


The last I checked, 98% of people have saved on taxes over the last three years. Freedom and Liberty... funny how Tea party foa see things.... There's a lot more to freedom and Liberty than taxes... Which I'm sure I've paid more than most over the last 30 years... and really have no problem with it... because I have so much more... I love helping the poor... I deliver food to homeless shelters twice a week ... because I'm sure someone helped one of my ancestors...

This whole taxes --- federal government fear is propaganda by huge business that could give two craps about taxes... they stir the pot with taxes and hate regulations... Freakin paranoid cabin dwelling, shot gun hicks... can you believe... STALIN is coming!!!!! This whole Freedom and Liberty tax thing always leads to teachers and cops making to much money and are a burden to society... and now PBS... Tea Party agenda brought to you by the Koch Brothers.

By the way things are great at my company... we hired 47 people this month and they all have health care.... God Bless America!

We have other concerns, and it's not Taxes or the Federal Government or Stalin... It's monopolies squashing us...











Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-10-09 5:19 AM
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Vic50
Posted 2012-10-09 8:02 AM (#579794 - in reply to #579789)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


MVP

Posts: 5794
5000
Location: Manhattan
pack attack - 2012-10-08 11:08 PM

Vic50 - 2012-10-08 10:52 PM

A lot of people who rail against socialism don't understand what it really is. Allowing exemptions on your tax return for dependent children is an example of socialism.

All nations have some mix of capitalism & socialism. The Scandavian countries(not France) are the most socialistic In Europe, and surveys have them as the happiest people in the world.


Keeping one's earned money from the confiscation of a bloated federal government is not socialism — it is called freedom and liberty. Gee, people earning money, and wanting to take care of the family, or do whatever they want to do with their money ----what a concept.

The only way you can make that statement is to start with the default position that all money is the government's.


No, here is how I make that statement. If you and I make the same amount of money and all else is equal and I have several dependent children and you don't, I will pay less taxes than you. In a tax code based purely on capitalism, this would not happen. It exists because of an understanding that parents raising children, should get a tax break.

I do believe this is the proper thing to do, but it is an example of socialism.
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-09 8:34 AM (#579798 - in reply to #579794)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Look what is happening in Europe now, especially where the tax rates are huge. People are revolting and screaming for assistance and less cuts. The only problem is that there is no more assistance left. Game over. No more money.

We are heading into the same direction. We are going to be 20tr in debt in a few years. The only reason we are not Greece yet is because unlike them, we can print our own money and borrow money. In my worse nightmare I can only imagine our huge poor population revolting here in the US. Well, on a second thought, most will become poor and there will be no help at all. The money will simply devalue and prices will be unproportionally high.

Now, this is when Stalin, dictatorship, lose of freedom..,etc occurs. This is how you maintain control. I don't remember a country that had a revolution with a good economy. It just doesn't happen. USSR experience teaches us the mistakes of history to the full extend. When Russians had their revolution they wanted to get rid of all the rich and give power to the people. Sounds right and logical on paper, just like what Andy is saying makes perfect human sense, but is it practical? And as a result, USSR took away money from the rich and ended up with just poor people. We all know how that ended.

Again, to cover our expenses in US, just taxing the rich won't cut it. You will need to have around 60% tax on all working Americans. What Andy is telling you here are just pretty words that are only good for demonstration speeches. In practice it is just an utopia. Sorry Andy.

Edited by Want the Cup? 2012-10-09 9:23 AM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-09 9:55 AM (#579804 - in reply to #579798)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 10:34 AM

Look what is happening in Europe now, especially where the tax rates are huge. People are revolting and screaming for assistance and less cuts. The only problem is that there is no more assistance left. Game over. No more money.

We are heading into the same direction. We are going to be 20tr in debt in a few years. The only reason we are not Greece yet is because unlike them, we can print our own money and borrow money. In my worse nightmare I can only imagine our huge poor population revolting here in the US. Well, on a second thought, most will become poor and there will be no help at all. The money will simply devalue and prices will be unproportionally high.

Now, this is when Stalin, dictatorship, lose of freedom..,etc occurs. This is how you maintain control. I don't remember a country that had a revolution with a good economy. It just doesn't happen. USSR experience teaches us the mistakes of history to the full extend. When Russians had their revolution they wanted to get rid of all the rich and give power to the people. Sounds right and logical on paper, just like what Andy is saying makes perfect human sense, but is it practical? And as a result, USSR took away money from the rich and ended up with just poor people. We all know how that ended.

Again, to cover our expenses in US, just taxing the rich won't cut it. You will need to have around 60% tax on all working Americans. What Andy is telling you here are just pretty words that are only good for demonstration speeches. In practice it is just an utopia.


That's right, my world is Utopia.... Yours is a nightmare.... your typical Christian Dooms day, Armageddon is here.... or Stalin. Why is it when something gets complex and people don't understand, they throw the Communism dart? 50% of the population will agree with you.

Communism will never happen here... because the people won't allow it.... I just won't except there's only those two options.. extremes.... Big Business taking over or complete Communism... The people should be able to protect themselves from Big Business take over or Stalinwood.

If you've read anything I've suggested is, Big Business has crushed American jobs through outsourcing, hiring illegals, allowing manufacturing overseas... Monopolizing small business that I've seen disappear over the last 35 years... because "Private Sector" billionaires put their dollars accountants and lawyers and lobbyist together and did the exact opposite of communism... and they want more... they don't want to be accountable for anything... the way they higher... the way they fire... dump toxins anywhere they want.... manufacture anywhere they want.

This is fact.... Not your made up fear about communism coming.... A nightmare that has happened...A whole generation of 45-65 years old left with no jobs working at Home Depot, because their degree jobs were sent overseas.... The benefits of trickle down... Top 1% got way richer...

You want the "OLD" economy back... the one Romney & friends and Obama and his GE funders sent Overseas? The ones, both say are gone forever... 12 Million American jobs being done over seas, that could come back.. jobs like customer service, research, data entry, billing, architectural drafting, software development etc etc etc.. instead by 2015 Forrester predicts roughly 5 million more jobs will be sent overseas.... Is it communism to try to forbid this from happening?

But then you want to pick sides... Screw sides, they both screwed this country. But I must be a communist because I won't join your party and run around with a pitchfork barking at the moon. Then you ask me for an answer... sorry, I just have opinions...







Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-10-09 10:17 AM
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Vic50
Posted 2012-10-09 10:15 AM (#579806 - in reply to #579798)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


MVP

Posts: 5794
5000
Location: Manhattan
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 10:34 AM

Look what is happening in Europe now, especially where the tax rates are huge. People are revolting and screaming for assistance and less cuts. The only problem is that there is no more assistance left. Game over. No more money.

We are heading into the same direction. We are going to be 20tr in debt in a few years. The only reason we are not Greece yet is because unlike them, we can print our own money and borrow money. In my worse nightmare I can only imagine our huge poor population revolting here in the US. Well, on a second thought, most will become poor and there will be no help at all. The money will simply devalue and prices will be unproportionally high.

Now, this is when Stalin, dictatorship, lose of freedom..,etc occurs. This is how you maintain control. I don't remember a country that had a revolution with a good economy. It just doesn't happen. USSR experience teaches us the mistakes of history to the full extend. When Russians had their revolution they wanted to get rid of all the rich and give power to the people. Sounds right and logical on paper, just like what Andy is saying makes perfect human sense, but is it practical? And as a result, USSR took away money from the rich and ended up with just poor people. We all know how that ended.

Again, to cover our expenses in US, just taxing the rich won't cut it. You will need to have around 60% tax on all working Americans. What Andy is telling you here are just pretty words that are only good for demonstration speeches. In practice it is just an utopia. Sorry Andy.


You seem to keep your position that if a good thing does not solve the entire problem, it should be dismissed.

If someone comes up with an outcome that cures 5% of cancer, should we not do it because it doesn't solve 95% of the cases.
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-09 10:19 AM (#579807 - in reply to #579804)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-09 11:55 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 10:34 AM

Look what is happening in Europe now, especially where the tax rates are huge. People are revolting and screaming for assistance and less cuts. The only problem is that there is no more assistance left. Game over. No more money.

We are heading into the same direction. We are going to be 20tr in debt in a few years. The only reason we are not Greece yet is because unlike them, we can print our own money and borrow money. In my worse nightmare I can only imagine our huge poor population revolting here in the US. Well, on a second thought, most will become poor and there will be no help at all. The money will simply devalue and prices will be unproportionally high.

Now, this is when Stalin, dictatorship, lose of freedom..,etc occurs. This is how you maintain control. I don't remember a country that had a revolution with a good economy. It just doesn't happen. USSR experience teaches us the mistakes of history to the full extend. When Russians had their revolution they wanted to get rid of all the rich and give power to the people. Sounds right and logical on paper, just like what Andy is saying makes perfect human sense, but is it practical? And as a result, USSR took away money from the rich and ended up with just poor people. We all know how that ended.

Again, to cover our expenses in US, just taxing the rich won't cut it. You will need to have around 60% tax on all working Americans. What Andy is telling you here are just pretty words that are only good for demonstration speeches. In practice it is just an utopia.


That's right, my world is Utopia.... Yours is a nightmare.... your typical Christian Dooms day, Armageddon is here.... or Stalin. Why is it when something gets complex and people don't understand, they throw the Communism dart? 50% of the population will agree with you.

Communism will never happen here... because the people won't allow it.... I just won't except there's only those two options.. extremes.... Big Business taking over or complete Communism... The people should be able to protect themselves from Big Business take over or Stalinwood.

If you've read anything I've suggested is, Big Business has crushed American jobs through outsourcing, hiring illegals, allowing manufacturing overseas... Monopolizing small business that I've seen disappear over the last 35 years... because "Private Sector" billionaires put their dollars accountants and lawyers and lobbyist together and did the exact opposite of communism... and they want more... they don't want to be accountable for anything... the way they higher... the way they fire... dump toxins anywhere they want.... manufacture anywhere they want, This is fact.... Not your made up fear about communism coming.... A whole generation of 45-65 years old left with no jobs working at Home Depot, because their degree jobs were sent overseas....

You want the "OLD" economy back... the one Romney & friends and Obama and his GE funders sent Overseas? The ones, both say are gone forever... 12 Million American jobs being done over seas, that could come back.. jobs like customer service, research, data entry, billing, architectural drafting, software development etc etc etc.. instead by 2015 Forrester predicts roughly 5 million more jobs will be sent overseas.... Is it communism to try to forbid this from happening?

But then you want to pick sides... Screw sides, they both screwed this country. But I must be a communist because I won't join your party and run around with a pitchfork barking at the moon. Then you ask me for an answer... sorry, I just have opinion...


No one is saying we will get communism. Even USSR couldn't get it. You are missing my point. Once we reach the breaking point, communism will look like a walk in the park. You'll get a kind of an Armageddon, yes. You are saying that it is not true, and I'm saying that the prove right here in front of your eyes. You stop borrowing money today, tomorrow is Armageddon. It is a simple math, rich or no rich.

Now, like I told you before, I do agree with you for the most part about business and our government. You don't need to repeat this in every post. But you offer no solution or at least what we can do as voters to change things.
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-09 10:24 AM (#579808 - in reply to #579806)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Vic50 - 2012-10-09 12:15 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 10:34 AM

Look what is happening in Europe now, especially where the tax rates are huge. People are revolting and screaming for assistance and less cuts. The only problem is that there is no more assistance left. Game over. No more money.

We are heading into the same direction. We are going to be 20tr in debt in a few years. The only reason we are not Greece yet is because unlike them, we can print our own money and borrow money. In my worse nightmare I can only imagine our huge poor population revolting here in the US. Well, on a second thought, most will become poor and there will be no help at all. The money will simply devalue and prices will be unproportionally high.

Now, this is when Stalin, dictatorship, lose of freedom..,etc occurs. This is how you maintain control. I don't remember a country that had a revolution with a good economy. It just doesn't happen. USSR experience teaches us the mistakes of history to the full extend. When Russians had their revolution they wanted to get rid of all the rich and give power to the people. Sounds right and logical on paper, just like what Andy is saying makes perfect human sense, but is it practical? And as a result, USSR took away money from the rich and ended up with just poor people. We all know how that ended.

Again, to cover our expenses in US, just taxing the rich won't cut it. You will need to have around 60% tax on all working Americans. What Andy is telling you here are just pretty words that are only good for demonstration speeches. In practice it is just an utopia. Sorry Andy.


You seem to keep your position that if a good thing does not solve the entire problem, it should be dismissed.

If someone comes up with an outcome that cures 5% of cancer, should we not do it because it doesn't solve 95% of the cases.


I have no idea what you just said. What good thing do you have?

Edited by Want the Cup? 2012-10-09 10:25 AM
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Vic50
Posted 2012-10-09 10:29 AM (#579809 - in reply to #579808)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


MVP

Posts: 5794
5000
Location: Manhattan
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 12:24 PM

Vic50 - 2012-10-09 12:15 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 10:34 AM

Look what is happening in Europe now, especially where the tax rates are huge. People are revolting and screaming for assistance and less cuts. The only problem is that there is no more assistance left. Game over. No more money.

We are heading into the same direction. We are going to be 20tr in debt in a few years. The only reason we are not Greece yet is because unlike them, we can print our own money and borrow money. In my worse nightmare I can only imagine our huge poor population revolting here in the US. Well, on a second thought, most will become poor and there will be no help at all. The money will simply devalue and prices will be unproportionally high.

Now, this is when Stalin, dictatorship, lose of freedom..,etc occurs. This is how you maintain control. I don't remember a country that had a revolution with a good economy. It just doesn't happen. USSR experience teaches us the mistakes of history to the full extend. When Russians had their revolution they wanted to get rid of all the rich and give power to the people. Sounds right and logical on paper, just like what Andy is saying makes perfect human sense, but is it practical? And as a result, USSR took away money from the rich and ended up with just poor people. We all know how that ended.

Again, to cover our expenses in US, just taxing the rich won't cut it. You will need to have around 60% tax on all working Americans. What Andy is telling you here are just pretty words that are only good for demonstration speeches. In practice it is just an utopia. Sorry Andy.


You seem to keep your position that if a good thing does not solve the entire problem, it should be dismissed.

If someone comes up with an outcome that cures 5% of cancer, should we not do it because it doesn't solve 95% of the cases.


I have no idea what you just said. What good thing do you have?


That making sure the rich pay their fair share of taxes will help balance the budget and reduce the deficit. Not that this solves the entire problem, but it helps.
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-09 10:46 AM (#579810 - in reply to #579809)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Vic50 - 2012-10-09 12:29 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 12:24 PM

Vic50 - 2012-10-09 12:15 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 10:34 AM

Look what is happening in Europe now, especially where the tax rates are huge. People are revolting and screaming for assistance and less cuts. The only problem is that there is no more assistance left. Game over. No more money.

We are heading into the same direction. We are going to be 20tr in debt in a few years. The only reason we are not Greece yet is because unlike them, we can print our own money and borrow money. In my worse nightmare I can only imagine our huge poor population revolting here in the US. Well, on a second thought, most will become poor and there will be no help at all. The money will simply devalue and prices will be unproportionally high.

Now, this is when Stalin, dictatorship, lose of freedom..,etc occurs. This is how you maintain control. I don't remember a country that had a revolution with a good economy. It just doesn't happen. USSR experience teaches us the mistakes of history to the full extend. When Russians had their revolution they wanted to get rid of all the rich and give power to the people. Sounds right and logical on paper, just like what Andy is saying makes perfect human sense, but is it practical? And as a result, USSR took away money from the rich and ended up with just poor people. We all know how that ended.

Again, to cover our expenses in US, just taxing the rich won't cut it. You will need to have around 60% tax on all working Americans. What Andy is telling you here are just pretty words that are only good for demonstration speeches. In practice it is just an utopia. Sorry Andy.


You seem to keep your position that if a good thing does not solve the entire problem, it should be dismissed.

If someone comes up with an outcome that cures 5% of cancer, should we not do it because it doesn't solve 95% of the cases.


I have no idea what you just said. What good thing do you have?


That making sure the rich pay their fair share of taxes will help balance the budget and reduce the deficit. Not that this solves the entire problem, but it helps.


Fair share BS slogan is for the liberal media. Unless you tax them 90%, you won't feel a thing in terms of budget or deficit. What you will feel instead, is that prices will go up and more people will be layoff, resulting in even less taxes gathered. Not to mention that the money collected, will go on more government spending.

Edited by Want the Cup? 2012-10-09 10:49 AM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-10-09 11:51 AM (#579816 - in reply to #579807)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



Legend

Posts: 17555
10000
Location: NYC & Charlotte, NC
Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 12:19 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-09 11:55 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 10:34 AM

Look what is happening in Europe now, especially where the tax rates are huge. People are revolting and screaming for assistance and less cuts. The only problem is that there is no more assistance left. Game over. No more money.

We are heading into the same direction. We are going to be 20tr in debt in a few years. The only reason we are not Greece yet is because unlike them, we can print our own money and borrow money. In my worse nightmare I can only imagine our huge poor population revolting here in the US. Well, on a second thought, most will become poor and there will be no help at all. The money will simply devalue and prices will be unproportionally high.

Now, this is when Stalin, dictatorship, lose of freedom..,etc occurs. This is how you maintain control. I don't remember a country that had a revolution with a good economy. It just doesn't happen. USSR experience teaches us the mistakes of history to the full extend. When Russians had their revolution they wanted to get rid of all the rich and give power to the people. Sounds right and logical on paper, just like what Andy is saying makes perfect human sense, but is it practical? And as a result, USSR took away money from the rich and ended up with just poor people. We all know how that ended.

Again, to cover our expenses in US, just taxing the rich won't cut it. You will need to have around 60% tax on all working Americans. What Andy is telling you here are just pretty words that are only good for demonstration speeches. In practice it is just an utopia.


That's right, my world is Utopia.... Yours is a nightmare.... your typical Christian Dooms day, Armageddon is here.... or Stalin. Why is it when something gets complex and people don't understand, they throw the Communism dart? 50% of the population will agree with you.

Communism will never happen here... because the people won't allow it.... I just won't except there's only those two options.. extremes.... Big Business taking over or complete Communism... The people should be able to protect themselves from Big Business take over or Stalinwood.

If you've read anything I've suggested is, Big Business has crushed American jobs through outsourcing, hiring illegals, allowing manufacturing overseas... Monopolizing small business that I've seen disappear over the last 35 years... because "Private Sector" billionaires put their dollars accountants and lawyers and lobbyist together and did the exact opposite of communism... and they want more... they don't want to be accountable for anything... the way they higher... the way they fire... dump toxins anywhere they want.... manufacture anywhere they want, This is fact.... Not your made up fear about communism coming.... A whole generation of 45-65 years old left with no jobs working at Home Depot, because their degree jobs were sent overseas....

You want the "OLD" economy back... the one Romney & friends and Obama and his GE funders sent Overseas? The ones, both say are gone forever... 12 Million American jobs being done over seas, that could come back.. jobs like customer service, research, data entry, billing, architectural drafting, software development etc etc etc.. instead by 2015 Forrester predicts roughly 5 million more jobs will be sent overseas.... Is it communism to try to forbid this from happening?

But then you want to pick sides... Screw sides, they both screwed this country. But I must be a communist because I won't join your party and run around with a pitchfork barking at the moon. Then you ask me for an answer... sorry, I just have opinion...


No one is saying we will get communism. Even USSR couldn't get it. You are missing my point. Once we reach the breaking point, communism will look like a walk in the park. You'll get a kind of an Armageddon, yes. You are saying that it is not true, and I'm saying that the prove right here in front of your eyes. You stop borrowing money today, tomorrow is Armageddon. It is a simple math, rich or no rich.

Now, like I told you before, I do agree with you for the most part about business and our government. You don't need to repeat this in every post. But you offer no solution or at least what we can do as voters to change things.


No I don't have the answers or solutions... but any ideas I do have are considered communism because it requires the Government passing regulations stopping companies from killing American jobs.... What can we do... reject both parties, stop picking sides... teach our kids the mistakes of today so hopefully they can change things... as longs as Companies are allowed to spill billions into campaigns at all levels "Executive, Legislative and State" it really doesn't matter what we do...

I repeat myself to defend my views, that it's not a utopia or demonstration pitch... what has happened over the last 35 years is a reality... and everyone is too busy trying to be on winning side.

You talk about borrowing today and Armageddon tomorrow.... Some people are already living in Armageddon...

America, since the 50's has been so afraid of being taken over the extreme left and communism.. ... we've completely fell off the right side of the map where Big business has taken over....






Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-10-09 12:00 PM
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-10-09 12:31 PM (#579820 - in reply to #579816)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

Posts: 7363
5000
Location: NHL STORAGE ROOM
Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-09 1:51 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 12:19 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-10-09 11:55 AM

Want the Cup? - 2012-10-09 10:34 AM

Look what is happening in Europe now, especially where the tax rates are huge. People are revolting and screaming for assistance and less cuts. The only problem is that there is no more assistance left. Game over. No more money.

We are heading into the same direction. We are going to be 20tr in debt in a few years. The only reason we are not Greece yet is because unlike them, we can print our own money and borrow money. In my worse nightmare I can only imagine our huge poor population revolting here in the US. Well, on a second thought, most will become poor and there will be no help at all. The money will simply devalue and prices will be unproportionally high.

Now, this is when Stalin, dictatorship, lose of freedom..,etc occurs. This is how you maintain control. I don't remember a country that had a revolution with a good economy. It just doesn't happen. USSR experience teaches us the mistakes of history to the full extend. When Russians had their revolution they wanted to get rid of all the rich and give power to the people. Sounds right and logical on paper, just like what Andy is saying makes perfect human sense, but is it practical? And as a result, USSR took away money from the rich and ended up with just poor people. We all know how that ended.

Again, to cover our expenses in US, just taxing the rich won't cut it. You will need to have around 60% tax on all working Americans. What Andy is telling you here are just pretty words that are only good for demonstration speeches. In practice it is just an utopia.


That's right, my world is Utopia.... Yours is a nightmare.... your typical Christian Dooms day, Armageddon is here.... or Stalin. Why is it when something gets complex and people don't understand, they throw the Communism dart? 50% of the population will agree with you.

Communism will never happen here... because the people won't allow it.... I just won't except there's only those two options.. extremes.... Big Business taking over or complete Communism... The people should be able to protect themselves from Big Business take over or Stalinwood.

If you've read anything I've suggested is, Big Business has crushed American jobs through outsourcing, hiring illegals, allowing manufacturing overseas... Monopolizing small business that I've seen disappear over the last 35 years... because "Private Sector" billionaires put their dollars accountants and lawyers and lobbyist together and did the exact opposite of communism... and they want more... they don't want to be accountable for anything... the way they higher... the way they fire... dump toxins anywhere they want.... manufacture anywhere they want, This is fact.... Not your made up fear about communism coming.... A whole generation of 45-65 years old left with no jobs working at Home Depot, because their degree jobs were sent overseas....

You want the "OLD" economy back... the one Romney & friends and Obama and his GE funders sent Overseas? The ones, both say are gone forever... 12 Million American jobs being done over seas, that could come back.. jobs like customer service, research, data entry, billing, architectural drafting, software development etc etc etc.. instead by 2015 Forrester predicts roughly 5 million more jobs will be sent overseas.... Is it communism to try to forbid this from happening?

But then you want to pick sides... Screw sides, they both screwed this country. But I must be a communist because I won't join your party and run around with a pitchfork barking at the moon. Then you ask me for an answer... sorry, I just have opinion...


No one is saying we will get communism. Even USSR couldn't get it. You are missing my point. Once we reach the breaking point, communism will look like a walk in the park. You'll get a kind of an Armageddon, yes. You are saying that it is not true, and I'm saying that the prove right here in front of your eyes. You stop borrowing money today, tomorrow is Armageddon. It is a simple math, rich or no rich.

Now, like I told you before, I do agree with you for the most part about business and our government. You don't need to repeat this in every post. But you offer no solution or at least what we can do as voters to change things.


No I don't have the answers or solutions... but any ideas I do have are considered communism because it requires the Government passing regulations stopping companies from killing American jobs.... What can we do... reject both parties, stop picking sides... teach our kids the mistakes of today so hopefully they can change things... as longs as Companies are allowed to spill billions into campaigns at all levels "Executive, Legislative and State" it really doesn't matter what we do...

I repeat myself to defend my views, that it's not a utopia or demonstration pitch... what has happened over the last 35 years is a reality... and everyone is too busy trying to be on winning side.

You talk about borrowing today and Armageddon tomorrow.... Some people are already living in Armageddon...

America, since the 50's has been so afraid of being taken over the extreme left and communism.. ... we've completely fell off the right side of the map where Big business has taken over....


Now you confused me. I don't see where we are afraid since 50th of left and communism. Compare to 50th we live in the communism. We now have, medicade, medicare, public assistance and thousands of other programs and regulations. Not saying it is wrong, just letting you know about your comparison of 50th and 35 years later. Before 50th you had less rights than ever and private ownership exploited you like there is no tomorrow. And pigs back then, were more pigs than ever. So you prefer that time instead of those 35 years? I think you contradict yourself.

Now, you want to teach the kids? Good idea. How about you start talking about teaching them to finish 'charge free' high school and not to drop-out like many do? Or stay off drugs like many don't. And make something out of yourself, so you won't need to rely on others.
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squatch
Posted 2012-11-05 4:38 PM (#580979 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


All-Star

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Location: Forests across North America
Vote for anyone but Obama tomorrow.
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