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So who's the savior?
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-05 5:51 PM (#580980 - in reply to #580979)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Crazy thing is, statics say only 34-37% of registered people vote... So if, who ever wins tomorrow wins by 51% .... he will only have been voted in by 17% (or so) of the US population. People say, if this guy or that guy loses the election, 49.9% of the population will be very pissed off... again not true... only the 17% people that voted for the losing guy will be pissed... the people who don't vote have no right to be pissed off.

One of the biggest reasons why 65% of the country doesn't vote is because they don't believe there vote matters, mostly because they live in a Hardcore Blue or Red state.... everything comes down to Ohio and Florida....

What a horrible system.








Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-11-05 5:53 PM
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Vic50
Posted 2012-11-05 6:23 PM (#580981 - in reply to #580979)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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squatch - 2012-11-05 6:38 PM

Vote for anyone but Obama tomorrow.


With this statement and your eloquent and super intelligent prior post, I bet you get a lot of support for your choice
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Vic50
Posted 2012-11-05 6:31 PM (#580982 - in reply to #580980)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Andy Bathgate - 2012-11-05 7:51 PM

Crazy thing is, statics say only 34-37% of registered people vote... So if, who ever wins tomorrow wins by 51% .... he will only have been voted in by 17% (or so) of the US population. People say, if this guy or that guy loses the election, 49.9% of the population will be very pissed off... again not true... only the 17% people that voted for the losing guy will be pissed... the people who don't vote have no right to be pissed off.

One of the biggest reasons why 65% of the country doesn't vote is because they don't believe there vote matters, mostly because they live in a Hardcore Blue or Red state.... everything comes down to Ohio and Florida....

What a horrible system.








While I agree to some extent that the blue/red state situation does reduce voter turnout, I don't think it is the primary cause. The main reason, I believe, is that too many people are indifferent. This is a bad situation. If most everyone voted, our democracy would be much stronger.
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-11-05 8:44 PM (#580986 - in reply to #580982)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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I don't know about you guys, but I just hope it doesn't go to lawyers and recounts..etc. I still remember that circus the last time it happened and I also have enough drama between NHL and NHLPA now. I don't want to see the same between politicians over the elections.
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-05 8:47 PM (#580987 - in reply to #580986)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Want the Cup? - 2012-11-05 10:44 PM

I don't know about you guys, but I just hope it doesn't go to lawyers and recounts..etc. I still remember that circus the last time it happened and I also have enough drama between NHL and NHLPA now. I don't want to see the same between politicians over the elections.


So true... I can't believe the crap that's going on now... and how we can't fix this.



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Vic50
Posted 2012-11-06 6:02 AM (#580989 - in reply to #580987)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Andy Bathgate - 2012-11-05 10:47 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-11-05 10:44 PM

I don't know about you guys, but I just hope it doesn't go to lawyers and recounts..etc. I still remember that circus the last time it happened and I also have enough drama between NHL and NHLPA now. I don't want to see the same between politicians over the elections.


So true... I can't believe the crap that's going on now... and how we can't fix this.





Its amazing we can spend billions and trillions on wars to supposedly bring democracy to other nations, but spend little to make our most important thing, voting, available to everyone and to cast and process votes in an efficient way.
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robstones
Posted 2012-11-06 6:52 AM (#580990 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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We get force fed 2 parties that have failed more and more every cycle while there were 4 other candidates for president this year. 4 other parties with different solutions to our problems, and no one in the country knows who they are, and if they do are less likely to vote for them because... well... they're not Democrat or Republican so they won't win, and who wants to "waste" their vote? We tout ourselves as this democracy supporting nation, but we're run just like every other nation since the beginning of time.... by the people who have the real power... the people who have money. The people who pay in to the 2 party system, and lobby to get their way. Not the American peoples way, but Goldman Sachs way. It's blasphemy
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-11-06 8:30 AM (#580994 - in reply to #580990)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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robstones - 2012-11-06 8:52 AM

We get force fed 2 parties that have failed more and more every cycle while there were 4 other candidates for president this year. 4 other parties with different solutions to our problems, and no one in the country knows who they are, and if they do are less likely to vote for them because... well... they're not Democrat or Republican so they won't win, and who wants to "waste" their vote? We tout ourselves as this democracy supporting nation, but we're run just like every other nation since the beginning of time.... by the people who have the real power... the people who have money. The people who pay in to the 2 party system, and lobby to get their way. Not the American peoples way, but Goldman Sachs way. It's blasphemy


I agree with you for the most part here and I do feel we need a 3rd party. But what we have today is simply this: For the most part, people who are doing well vote for Reps, and people who are doing bad voting for Dems. With problems we have now including economy, 16tr deficit..etc, just creates more and more people who are doing bad and need help. I think that in the not so distant future Dems will win elections most of the time.

Edited by Want the Cup? 2012-11-06 8:40 AM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-06 12:51 PM (#581003 - in reply to #580994)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Want the Cup? - 2012-11-06 10:30 AM

robstones - 2012-11-06 8:52 AM

We get force fed 2 parties that have failed more and more every cycle while there were 4 other candidates for president this year. 4 other parties with different solutions to our problems, and no one in the country knows who they are, and if they do are less likely to vote for them because... well... they're not Democrat or Republican so they won't win, and who wants to "waste" their vote? We tout ourselves as this democracy supporting nation, but we're run just like every other nation since the beginning of time.... by the people who have the real power... the people who have money. The people who pay in to the 2 party system, and lobby to get their way. Not the American peoples way, but Goldman Sachs way. It's blasphemy


I agree with you for the most part here and I do feel we need a 3rd party. But what we have today is simply this: For the most part, people who are doing well vote for Reps, and people who are doing bad voting for Dems. With problems we have now including economy, 16tr deficit..etc, just creates more and more people who are doing bad and need help. I think that in the not so distant future Dems will win elections most of the time.


No way is that close to true... I know plenty of poor people voting GOP... specially living here in NC.... Also know plenty of middle class-to rich people voting Democrats... Women vote Democrats for Pro Choice issues, no matter what their income is... just like people vote GOP for the Pro Life stance, no matter the issue... Teachers, professors mainly vote Democratic, because their jobs are always being threatened by the GOP... and I know plenty of teachers who aren't poor...

If 1% of the people are rich (standards to be 1% is over $250'000 a year, 3% of people make $125'000 to $250,000), the GOP would only get 1% -4% of the vote... In the deep red states poor people vote GOP for religious, Guns, anti-queers, and fear reasons (the communist are coming)... Some would even say, the Poor people who would vote Democrat (or would benefit most from the Dems) don't vote at all.... 66% of eligible registered voters won't even vote this year.

I would say at least 40% of people voting GOP make less than $100'000.00 a year as a family.... and vote for religious & social reasons over economic reasons.














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robstones
Posted 2012-11-06 1:12 PM (#581004 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Hollywood and musicians are mostly democrat too... they're artists and hippies.
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-11-06 1:37 PM (#581005 - in reply to #581003)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Andy Bathgate - 2012-11-06 2:51 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-11-06 10:30 AM

robstones - 2012-11-06 8:52 AM

We get force fed 2 parties that have failed more and more every cycle while there were 4 other candidates for president this year. 4 other parties with different solutions to our problems, and no one in the country knows who they are, and if they do are less likely to vote for them because... well... they're not Democrat or Republican so they won't win, and who wants to "waste" their vote? We tout ourselves as this democracy supporting nation, but we're run just like every other nation since the beginning of time.... by the people who have the real power... the people who have money. The people who pay in to the 2 party system, and lobby to get their way. Not the American peoples way, but Goldman Sachs way. It's blasphemy


I agree with you for the most part here and I do feel we need a 3rd party. But what we have today is simply this: For the most part, people who are doing well vote for Reps, and people who are doing bad voting for Dems. With problems we have now including economy, 16tr deficit..etc, just creates more and more people who are doing bad and need help. I think that in the not so distant future Dems will win elections most of the time.


No way is that close to true... I know plenty of poor people voting GOP... specially living here in NC.... Also know plenty of middle class-to rich people voting Democrats... Women vote Democrats for Pro Choice issues, no matter what their income is... just like people vote GOP for the Pro Life stance, no matter the issue... Teachers, professors mainly vote Democratic, because their jobs are always being threatened by the GOP... and I know plenty of teachers who aren't poor...

If 1% of the people are rich (standards to be 1% is over $250'000 a year, 3% of people make $125'000 to $250,000), the GOP would only get 1% -4% of the vote... In the deep red states poor people vote GOP for religious, Guns, anti-queers, and fear reasons (the communist are coming)... Some would even say, the Poor people who would vote Democrat (or would benefit most from the Dems) don't vote at all.... 66% of eligible registered voters won't even vote this year.

I would say at least 40% of people voting GOP make less than $100'000.00 a year as a family.... and vote for religious & social reasons over economic reasons.



Obviously you can find billionaires who vote Democratic or wise verse. I'm talking about major % of the people. Out of curiosity, those poor people you know who vote Republicans, what's their income bracket? I just want to know your definition of a poor. My definition of a poor is the person who needs some kind of government assistance to survive for him/her and his/her family.

BTW, you gave a lengthy explanation why people in the red states vote Reps, can you do the same about blue states?
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-06 7:26 PM (#581012 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Good question, but of course I'm guilty of stereo typing... Seems like blue states have big cities where a lot of people, from everywhere, live close to each other, mix cultures, and have different fears and needs than someone who lives in the sticks... with just his or her race. Put it simply... people that don't see things so Black or White.

I agree with your definitions of poor.. but would also add families that are living on one paycheck, in major debt... on the brink of needing help from someone...



Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-11-07 6:53 AM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-06 9:11 PM (#581018 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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NC goes to Romney.....



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Vic50
Posted 2012-11-06 9:38 PM (#581019 - in reply to #581018)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Andy Bathgate - 2012-11-06 11:11 PM

NC goes to Romney.....





Ohio goes to Obama and he wins. Great news to me
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-06 11:13 PM (#581022 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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So who's the next Savior? Romney... was not he.


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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-07 7:11 AM (#581024 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Who ever runs for the GOP next is gonna have to have a better message for everyone... not just white males who voted close to 65% for Romney. Like it or not, the USA is a mix of different types... starting with Women who voted close to 70% for Obama... because they don't want religion telling them what to do with their bodies..... they want a choice.... when is the GOP gonna get it? In the next election cycle or so... Texas and Ariz will start to become blue states because of the ever growing Latino Americans.... Who still get treated like natives by the Christian Pale skin.... The GOP will never win again if all they can attract to their conventions is hat waving Cowboys, bible beating, gun shooting, Tea Party yee-hass...

4 years from now my early prediction is Bobby Jindal and/or Jed Bush.







Edited by Andy Bathgate 2012-11-07 7:58 AM
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Vic50
Posted 2012-11-07 8:15 AM (#581026 - in reply to #581024)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Andy Bathgate - 2012-11-07 9:11 AM

Who ever runs for the GOP next is gonna have to have a better message for everyone... not just white males who voted close to 65% for Romney. Like it or not, the USA is a mix of different types... starting with Women who voted close to 70% for Obama... because they don't want religion telling them what to do with their bodies..... they want a choice.... when is the GOP gonna get it? In the next election cycle or so... Texas and Ariz will start to become blue states because of the ever growing Latino Americans.... Who still get treated like natives by the Christian Pale skin.... The GOP will never win again if all they can attract to their conventions is hat waving Cowboys, bible beating, gun shooting, Tea Party yee-hass...

4 years from now my early prediction is Bobby Jindal and/or Jed Bush.







Really early, but how about Jeb Bush vs. Hillary Clinton
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-07 8:27 AM (#581028 - in reply to #581026)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Vic50 - 2012-11-07 10:15 AM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-11-07 9:11 AM

Who ever runs for the GOP next is gonna have to have a better message for everyone... not just white males who voted close to 65% for Romney. Like it or not, the USA is a mix of different types... starting with Women who voted close to 70% for Obama... because they don't want religion telling them what to do with their bodies..... they want a choice.... when is the GOP gonna get it? In the next election cycle or so... Texas and Ariz will start to become blue states because of the ever growing Latino Americans.... Who still get treated like natives by the Christian Pale skin.... The GOP will never win again if all they can attract to their conventions is hat waving Cowboys, bible beating, gun shooting, Tea Party yee-hass...

4 years from now my early prediction is Bobby Jindal and/or Jed Bush.







Really early, but how about Jeb Bush vs. Hillary Clinton


I think Hillary may be passed her prime... but that would be a good race.



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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-07 2:00 PM (#581037 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Love him or hate him... Biden has done something most VPs (or wanna be VPs) haven't done... deliver .... Ohio...PA... VA... MI... States that could have very easily went red... Ryan didn't even win his own state, Lieberman, Edwards... Palin... didn't deliver the way way Biden has two elections in a row...




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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-11-09 9:28 AM (#581073 - in reply to #581037)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Can someone please explain to me, where is the Katrina type of outcry? Why nobody gives a f**k?
Look at what's going on in places like Staten Island, people lost everything, it is like a war zone. The weather is cold and they have nowhere to go. I'm not even mentioning that there is no power or gas in many places.
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Fish
Posted 2012-11-09 11:11 AM (#581081 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Here's some stats, albeit polling stats which have a margin of error and often a bias, but better than nothing:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johnzogby/2012/07/18/zogby-demographics...
ncome: Just as Romney won the GOP nomination by triumphing consistently among voters earning $100,000 a year or more, he leads Obama in this category by 3 points – 47% to 44%. This highest income category represents about 13% of all likely voters in my sample and is key to any Romney victory. What is perhaps more significant is that Romney leads by 6 points among the all-important $50,000-$75,000 income group, 42%-36%. They are larger – 21%– of all voters and it is the group that normally provides the winner in presidential elections going back to 1972. With these aggregated numbers, Romney is outperforming Senator John McCain’s totals in 2008: McCain won this income group by just 1 point—49% to 48%. Small wonder that the Obama campaign is ferociously attacking Romney’s record as an “outsourcer in chief” because voters in this income group are on the front lines of lost manufacturing jobs. At some point, however, Obama will have to attempt a positive message to demonstrate why he should at least match his numbers among this group from 2008. He currently is 12 points short.
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Fish
Posted 2012-11-09 11:13 AM (#581082 - in reply to #581081)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_08.html#.UJ1HeYfoTD4

2008
Group
Obama
McCain

All Voters

Pct.
53%
45%
SEX
Men
47
49
48
Women
53
56
43
RACE
White
74
43
55
Black
13
95
4
Hispanic
9
67
31
Asian
2
62
35
Other
3
66
31
AGE
18-29
18
66
32
30-44
29
52
46
45-64
37
50
49
65 & over
16
45
53
INCOME
<$15,000
6
73
25
$15,000-29,999
12
60
37
$30-49,999
19
55
43
$50-74,999
21
48
49
$75-99,999
15
51
48
$100,000 & over
26
49
49
UNION HOUSEHOLD
Yes
21
59
39
No
79
51
47
REGION
East
21
59
40
Midwest
24
54
44
South
32
45
54
West
23
57
40
PARTY
Democrat
39
89
10
Republican
32
9
93
Independent
29
52
44
POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY
Liberal
22
89
10
Moderate
44
60
39
Conservative
34
20
78
GAY/LESBIAN/BISEXUAL
Yes
4
70
27
No
96
53
45
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Fish
Posted 2012-11-09 11:27 AM (#581083 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Here's a simple set of data from Gallup on income vs. who voted for:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/154559/us-presidential-election-center.a... (go to 2012 Demographics and select Income)
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-09 11:34 AM (#581084 - in reply to #581083)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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It's amazing how many non-married voters voted for Obama....
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Curtis
Posted 2012-11-09 1:03 PM (#581092 - in reply to #581073)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Want the Cup? - 2012-11-09 11:28 AM

Can someone please explain to me, where is the Katrina type of outcry? Why nobody gives a f**k?
Look at what's going on in places like Staten Island, people lost everything, it is like a war zone. The weather is cold and they have nowhere to go. I'm not even mentioning that there is no power or gas in many places.


Maybe b/c for Katrina, most of New Orleans had 6 feet of water in it for weeks after the storm & that we couldn't even get back into the city for at least 6 weeks. New Orleans East didn't have regular power until a year after the storm.

I'm sure your problems are big but don't even begin to compare Sandy to Katrina. You have no idea. It took several years; not weeks, not months, but years, for some people in Louisiana to get their lives back in order after Katrina & Rita. So, no offense, but New York has a long way to go to even come close to the havoc Katrina caused New Orleans.
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Fish
Posted 2012-11-09 1:55 PM (#581095 - in reply to #581084)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Andy Bathgate - 2012-11-09 10:34 AM

It's amazing how many non-married voters voted for Obama....


I think it's probably a reflection of age...if you look at the under 35 vote, it went strongly towards Obama.
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-11-09 2:00 PM (#581096 - in reply to #581092)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Curtis - 2012-11-09 3:03 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-11-09 11:28 AM

Can someone please explain to me, where is the Katrina type of outcry? Why nobody gives a f**k?
Look at what's going on in places like Staten Island, people lost everything, it is like a war zone. The weather is cold and they have nowhere to go. I'm not even mentioning that there is no power or gas in many places.


Maybe b/c for Katrina, most of New Orleans had 6 feet of water in it for weeks after the storm & that we couldn't even get back into the city for at least 6 weeks. New Orleans East didn't have regular power until a year after the storm.

I'm sure your problems are big but don't even begin to compare Sandy to Katrina. You have no idea. It took several years; not weeks, not months, but years, for some people in Louisiana to get their lives back in order after Katrina & Rita. So, no offense, but New York has a long way to go to even come close to the havoc Katrina caused New Orleans.


I'm not comparing this to Katrina. The fact that Katrina was much worse doesn't mean we shouldn't have an outcry with Sandy. Go to Staten Island. You'll see cars on trees and small ships on people's backyards.
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Vic50
Posted 2012-11-09 2:48 PM (#581097 - in reply to #581095)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Fish - 2012-11-09 3:55 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-11-09 10:34 AM

It's amazing how many non-married voters voted for Obama....


I think it's probably a reflection of age...if you look at the under 35 vote, it went strongly towards Obama.


Agree, age is the most important factor, but unmarrieds tend to live in urban areas which are more progressive and also some have lifestyles which are at odds with the Republican agenda
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Vic50
Posted 2012-11-09 2:50 PM (#581098 - in reply to #581096)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Want the Cup? - 2012-11-09 4:00 PM

Curtis - 2012-11-09 3:03 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-11-09 11:28 AM

Can someone please explain to me, where is the Katrina type of outcry? Why nobody gives a f**k?
Look at what's going on in places like Staten Island, people lost everything, it is like a war zone. The weather is cold and they have nowhere to go. I'm not even mentioning that there is no power or gas in many places.


Maybe b/c for Katrina, most of New Orleans had 6 feet of water in it for weeks after the storm & that we couldn't even get back into the city for at least 6 weeks. New Orleans East didn't have regular power until a year after the storm.

I'm sure your problems are big but don't even begin to compare Sandy to Katrina. You have no idea. It took several years; not weeks, not months, but years, for some people in Louisiana to get their lives back in order after Katrina & Rita. So, no offense, but New York has a long way to go to even come close to the havoc Katrina caused New Orleans.


I'm not comparing this to Katrina. The fact that Katrina was much worse doesn't mean we shouldn't have an outcry with Sandy. Go to Staten Island. You'll see cars on trees and small ships on people's backyards.


agree that there are a lot of very bad situations which are not being addressed quickly enough. If you see local news in the NYC area, you see a lot of outrage against power companies, red cross and government.

Edited by Vic50 2012-11-09 2:51 PM
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Want the Cup?
Posted 2012-11-09 3:16 PM (#581100 - in reply to #581098)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Vic50 - 2012-11-09 4:50 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-11-09 4:00 PM

Curtis - 2012-11-09 3:03 PM

Want the Cup? - 2012-11-09 11:28 AM

Can someone please explain to me, where is the Katrina type of outcry? Why nobody gives a f**k?
Look at what's going on in places like Staten Island, people lost everything, it is like a war zone. The weather is cold and they have nowhere to go. I'm not even mentioning that there is no power or gas in many places.


Maybe b/c for Katrina, most of New Orleans had 6 feet of water in it for weeks after the storm & that we couldn't even get back into the city for at least 6 weeks. New Orleans East didn't have regular power until a year after the storm.

I'm sure your problems are big but don't even begin to compare Sandy to Katrina. You have no idea. It took several years; not weeks, not months, but years, for some people in Louisiana to get their lives back in order after Katrina & Rita. So, no offense, but New York has a long way to go to even come close to the havoc Katrina caused New Orleans.


I'm not comparing this to Katrina. The fact that Katrina was much worse doesn't mean we shouldn't have an outcry with Sandy. Go to Staten Island. You'll see cars on trees and small ships on people's backyards.


agree that there are a lot of very bad situations which are not being addressed quickly enough. If you see local news in the NYC area, you see a lot of outrage against power companies, red cross and government.


Right, the key here is "local news". And the outrage mostly coming from people not reporters. Main stream media doesn't even talk much about this, unlike with Katrina.

Edited by Want the Cup? 2012-11-09 3:17 PM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2012-11-09 3:24 PM (#581101 - in reply to #581095)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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Fish - 2012-11-09 3:55 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2012-11-09 10:34 AM

It's amazing how many non-married voters voted for Obama....


I think it's probably a reflection of age...if you look at the under 35 vote, it went strongly towards Obama.


Over 30 to 40 also went for Obama because he carried them from the last election... and I don't think this generation of 35 years old are going to go Conservative... specially if it's wrapped with the Neo-Christian ideology that so many Americans are denying...

It's gonna be Very interesting on how the GOP are going to adapt to this new era... Perhaps more Northern Moderate candidates will finally have a chance... But then again Romney, who spent so much time twisting to the extreme right during the GOP primaries was never ever able to bounce back to the middle, where he was in Mass. Also didn't help that he was a Wall Street guy 3-4 years after the Wall Street melt down and the occupied Wall st movement.




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Fish
Posted 2012-11-09 5:52 PM (#581103 - in reply to #526180)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



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The primary system is not conducive to electing good candidates...most moderate voters aren't as motivated to come out for these votes, and that combined with the long drawn out process means you're going to get pulled apart by your own party. I think both parties would do well to get rid of the primary system.

On another topic, ballot measures are one of the worst ways to get laws instituted. The reason you elect people is for them to govern, asking the public to decide what to do through complex worded (often misleading) descriptions is bound to end in poorly thought out laws and initiatives.
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Vic50
Posted 2012-11-09 7:43 PM (#581106 - in reply to #581103)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


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Fish - 2012-11-09 7:52 PM

The primary system is not conducive to electing good candidates...most moderate voters aren't as motivated to come out for these votes, and that combined with the long drawn out process means you're going to get pulled apart by your own party. I think both parties would do well to get rid of the primary system.

On another topic, ballot measures are one of the worst ways to get laws instituted. The reason you elect people is for them to govern, asking the public to decide what to do through complex worded (often misleading) descriptions is bound to end in poorly thought out laws and initiatives.


California is a perfect example. A lot of monetary decisions are made by ballot. Typically, spending on entitlements are always passed while taxes to pay for them are defeated. This is the primary cause of California's huge debt
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Vic50
Posted 2012-11-09 7:46 PM (#581107 - in reply to #581106)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?


MVP

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As long as we are presenting statistics, here's one from Tuesday's election.

Of the 10 states with the most educated population, Obama won all 10

Of the 10 states with the least educated population, Romney won 9 - Nevada being the exception
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Curtis
Posted 2012-11-10 10:02 AM (#581115 - in reply to #581107)
Subject: Re: So who's the savior?



MVP

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Vic50 - 2012-11-09 9:46 PM

As long as we are presenting statistics, here's one from Tuesday's election.

Of the 10 states with the most educated population, Obama won all 10

Of the 10 states with the least educated population, Romney won 9 - Nevada being the exception


Thanks for proving statistics are arbitrary & that my home value is still down 40%.

Here's another statistic- in 100% of all political & economic problems of the last 100+ years, Republicans or Democrats have been involved. Go 3rd party...

Edited by Curtis 2012-11-10 10:05 AM
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