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The 2017 New York Rangers
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robstones
Posted 2017-01-04 8:33 PM (#666257)
Subject: The 2017 New York Rangers



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We're at the half way mark, heading in to a newly implemented bye week as the 3rd place team in the Division/Conference/League as only Pittsburgh and CBJ are ahead of The Rangers in the standings.

Nash Buchnevich and Zibanejad are all still injured, but the team has stayed above .500 with their absence. The lines have seemingly worked themselves out IMO.

Kreider Stepan Zuccarello

Grabner Hayes Miller
Vesey Lindberg Fast

If I were AV, I would try a 2nd line of the injured group when healthy.

Nash Zibanejad Buchnevich

and see what happens. Z and Buch worked well together early in the season, so it may just work out!

On defense

Skjei Holden and McDonagh are the keepers, but it has been obvious that the team may need help back there before the year even started. With the trade deadline steadily approaching,

What moves would you like to ideally see?

Do you like my lines, or would you do something different?

Is there a player(s) in particular you think they should target?

Or is popular opinion that everyone should be traded, and AV should be fired because 3rd place isn't indicative of what the team actually is because they lost to the Sabers twice?

Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Nash Zibanejad Buchnevich
Grabner Hayes Miller
Vesey Lindberg Pirri/Fast

What would trading one of the bottom 3 D in a package with a Pirri or Fast or Jensen yield?

I (obviously) choose Ekblad

McDonagh Ekblad
Holden Girardi
Skjei Klein





Edited by robstones 2017-01-05 5:40 AM
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2017-01-05 6:51 AM (#666261 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Injured Staal is addition by subtraction.

Will save my other opinions until after the Columbus game. Would love to see a win, but given Columbus' streak, a point would be nice.

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concust
Posted 2017-01-05 7:40 AM (#666262 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Need defensive depth. Clendening plays well in every game he gets in despite only playing 10 minutes a month. Klein and Girardi have been underperforming (to say it nicely). Staal is the least of our worries at this point but if someone wants him I'm listening and the Rangers' cap is too.


Or is popular opinion that everyone should be traded, and AV should be fired because 3rd place isn't indicative of what the team actually is because they lost to the Sabers twice?


I think the team needs to move on from AV not because we're "only in third" or we lost to whatever team. I have serious concerns with his player personnel decisions, who sits and who plays, and how much. Girardi continues to get trotted out there in all situations regardless of his level of play. Not his fault, but AV should at least be resting him especially when you have a good option in Clendening. This was the same problem with Girardi and Boyle last year when McIlrath was available, and was still a good option. In their limited time together Yandle/McIlrath was often the best defensive pair we had from a possession and zone-entry standpoint.

But AV refuses to sit Girardi for his health or due to subpar play. Same with Klein, same with Staal. Lundqvist goes cold for a bit and Raanta starts 3 or 4 games. Miller is demoted because he "forces things". Vesey sits sometimes for no reason other than he's a rookie. That's all just from last month. We've had years of this, the double standard. I just don't get it or the reasoning behind it.


What would trading one of the bottom 3 D in a package with a Pirri or Fast or Jensen yield?


Nothing. Especially if you're looking for talented right shot defensemen which command a premium anyway. Those are all throw-ins. No one's going to trade anything of value for Girardi and Pirri. If someone said they'd give me a 4th round pick for Girardi straight up I'd be thrilled.

And our cupboard's bare, we lack anything resembling a high end prospect with the possible exception of Shestyorkin. We haven't had a first round pick since 2012 (!) so need to stop trading those away too. Our best hope is to find a solid, serviceable defenseman from a team that's looking to sell (a Holden type defenseman) or pray that Graves or John Gilmour can step right in if needed in the playoffs. Beyond some tweaks on defense this team doesn't need a whole lot other than a little good luck.
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robstones
Posted 2017-01-05 8:44 AM (#666264 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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I'm pretty sure the last time Clenndening played prior to last night was in back to back games, and Girardi was the HEALTHY scratch

Maybe the Klein for Del Zotto type trades don't happen often, but that's what we need. A McDonagh for Gomez.....

Edited by robstones 2017-01-05 8:58 AM
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concust
Posted 2017-01-05 10:15 AM (#666267 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Girardi has been healthy scratch once this season, (Jets) and once last season (Pens) in the playoffs.

Strangely AV has talked about rotating defensemen in the past and giving Girardi, Staal, and Boyle rest. He never actually did it though.

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robstones
Posted 2017-01-05 10:40 AM (#666268 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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I know we want AV to treat Girardi as the 7th defenseman, but that's just not going to happen.

That time against The Jets must have been the only time Clenndening has played in favor of a healthy player, though. Clendenning is our 7th defenseman, but AV put him in in favor of sitting and resting Girardi..... Should we rotate them every other game?

If the goal is to trade Girardi or Staal, then you need to play them. No one is going to trade for a 6/7 defenseman @ 5.5 million a year. But if you play him regularly, and your team is winning, and he has an A on his jersey, it's a little easier to sell him as a veteran right handed stay at home defenseman who adds leadership to a young team.

He's Dan Girardi: The top pair defenseman of the team who has more playoff experience than anybody. Those "intangibles" are important to people. Some of these young Canadian teams who haven't made the playoffs in a while may bite. The Oilers..... I'll take another Boston kid in Matt Benning for a Girardi or Staal!
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concust
Posted 2017-01-06 7:04 AM (#666271 - in reply to #666268)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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robstones - 2017-01-05 11:40 AM

I know we want AV to treat Girardi as the 7th defenseman, but that's just not going to happen.

That time against The Jets must have been the only time Clenndening has played in favor of a healthy player, though. Clendenning is our 7th defenseman, but AV put him in in favor of sitting and resting Girardi..... Should we rotate them every other game?


Nobody's saying treat him as 7th defenseman rob. Just saying you don't treat him as #2. Based on his play he's a bottom pair defenseman on this team and based on his age and number of GP in the past 5 or 6 years, he's one that's deserving of some rest every once in a while, especially considering we have a decent defenseman that can fill in. So play him regularly on the bottom pair and let Clendo get in once a week or so. Or in a back to back. That sort of thing, smart usage of all the resources available to you, rather than overplaying one asset while another rots in the press box.



If the goal is to trade Girardi or Staal, then you need to play them. No one is going to trade for a 6/7 defenseman @ 5.5 million a year. But if you play him regularly, and your team is winning, and he has an A on his jersey, it's a little easier to sell him as a veteran right handed stay at home defenseman who adds leadership to a young team.



It's fun to talk about trading Girardi but I don't believe there's a team out there that it would make sense for, even if we packaged a high pick as a "thank you for taking him off our hands". I think there's a fair chance he gets bought out this offseason. This is the first season where the term and amount start to make sense. In light of that I'd much rather him play a limited role and have a better chance of winning each night
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robstones
Posted 2017-01-06 8:44 AM (#666273 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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In spite of playing more games than McDonagh, Staal, and Holden.... all three have seen more ice time this season than Dan Girardi. Last game our top pair was

McDonagh Klein

Girardi isn't our #2 anymore... he's currently our #4, and sliding to #5 if Klein earns more with improved play.

Clendenning isn't that good either. If he were a big upgrade over Girardi like McIlrath was I'd agree, but I'm not impressed with Clenndening
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Vua
Posted 2017-01-06 11:05 AM (#666275 - in reply to #666273)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers


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robstones - 2017-01-06 8:44 AM

In spite of playing more games than McDonagh, Staal, and Holden.... all three have seen more ice time this season than Dan Girardi. Last game our top pair was

McDonagh Klein

Girardi isn't our #2 anymore... he's currently our #4, and sliding to #5 if Klein earns more with improved play.

Clendenning isn't that good either. If he were a big upgrade over Girardi like McIlrath was I'd agree, but I'm not impressed with Clenndening


He's played in less games than those 3, not more. Holden gets PP time which is why his TOI is higher. Staal by a few seconds per game? He average 1 or 2 seconds more per shift. Probably the time it takes to get across the ice to change. They get the same number of shifts on average. Girardi started out on the 2nd and 3rd pairing this year but he's been first pair almost the entire season. Sorry but he should be getting the least ice time or be in the press box. Yes Clendenning is an upgrade over him. He can move and pass the puck, 2 things Girardi is no longer capable of doing. He can't even get back into his own zone from the opponents blue line half the time. He's become a back checking forward instead of a defenseman in those situations.
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robstones
Posted 2017-01-07 7:51 PM (#666304 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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OK I take it back, Clenndening is better.

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robstones
Posted 2017-01-12 5:35 PM (#666373 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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So, with Zibanejad Buchnevich and Nash all back, and Staal out... I suspect the lineup to look like this

Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Nash Zibanejad Buchnevich
Grabner Hayes Miller
Vesey Lindberg Fast

McDonagh Klein
Holden Girardi
Skjei Clendening

Not sure if Zibanejad is ready to play or not yet
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concust
Posted 2017-01-13 7:50 AM (#666375 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Heard Zbad is close but probably not quite ready. Most likely conditioning/timing at this point. Sounds like Buch and Nash are good to go for tonight.

Also Fast may still be out, they sent him home from practice yesterday.
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concust
Posted 2017-01-13 7:51 AM (#666376 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Didn't see it posted elsewhere but Buchnevich has been recalled from HFD as expected.
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robstones
Posted 2017-01-14 7:33 AM (#666413 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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The Rangers lost..... fire everybody and trade Lundqvist, right?
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Gravey09
Posted 2017-01-14 9:18 AM (#666414 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers


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only saw the third but thought it looked OK. Coming off a break where no practice working some injured players back in not awful. Was not it the holy crap mood like the Buffalo debacle. would seriously contemplate a goalie rotation. Hank needs some motivation.
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PV29
Posted 2017-01-14 10:09 PM (#666429 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Need a complete overhaul on defense. This group will not compete with anyone first round of the playoffs. If they make it.

The 4th line should be bangers and crashes on the wings with Lindberg. A healthy Z and Buch and Nash gives them a formidable forward group, but AV willl scramble things and **** it up. Learn fast Beuk, your turn is next I think.
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robstones
Posted 2017-01-16 12:30 PM (#666437 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Zibanejad will be back tomorrow

The lines in practice were

Kreider Stepan Zuccarello
Nash Zibanejad Buchnevich
Grabner Hayes Miller
Vesey Pirri Fast

.... Pirri scored that PP goal, so he stays, I guess. Lindberg was one of the few guys who would deliver a big hit even once in a while, so he'should scratched
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PV29
Posted 2017-01-16 5:39 PM (#666439 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Those first three lines are actually what they should be and give the Rangers a serious matchup advantage against most if not all defenders. But of course AV can't sit out his pet Fast. So Lindberg sits and Pirri gets moved from wing, where he looks comfortable, to center. Lindberg has been solid and slowly improving since he got back in the lineup, there's no valid reason to sit him. He actually hits opposing players and knocks them off the puck. I guess he's just not "Quickie" enough.

Fire AV.
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concust
Posted 2017-01-17 1:54 PM (#666450 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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PV29 - 2017-01-16 6:39 PM

Those first three lines are actually what they should be and give the Rangers a serious matchup advantage against most if not all defenders. But of course AV can't sit out his pet Fast. So Lindberg sits and Pirri gets moved from wing, where he looks comfortable, to center. Lindberg has been solid and slowly improving since he got back in the lineup, there's no valid reason to sit him. He actually hits opposing players and knocks them off the puck. I guess he's just not "Quickie" enough.

Fire AV.


Kind of incredible that the entire second line was injured just a short while ago. Speaks to the depth issue that the Rangers were facing (although we all know it's Lundqvist's fault in the end)

Pirri has not looked comfortable to me in a while, even at wing. Of course he's cold now, but he's traditionally been a streaky scorer. I have no problem with Fast sitting but I don't think it should be at Lindberg's expense. If it were up to me that fourth line would be Vesey Lindberg Fast. Pirri has stayed in the lineup due to the injuries up front but at this point I would say both Lindberg and Fast are playing better than Pirri.

PV, who would be your choice to replace AV if he's fired tomorrow? Beukeboom? External candidate? Sather?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-01-17 3:34 PM (#666451 - in reply to #666450)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Jack Capuano
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sureshore
Posted 2017-01-17 3:56 PM (#666452 - in reply to #666450)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers


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concust - 2017-01-17 3:54 PM

PV29 - 2017-01-16 6:39 PM

Those first three lines are actually what they should be and give the Rangers a serious matchup advantage against most if not all defenders. But of course AV can't sit out his pet Fast. So Lindberg sits and Pirri gets moved from wing, where he looks comfortable, to center. Lindberg has been solid and slowly improving since he got back in the lineup, there's no valid reason to sit him. He actually hits opposing players and knocks them off the puck. I guess he's just not "Quickie" enough.

Fire AV.


Kind of incredible that the entire second line was injured just a short while ago. Speaks to the depth issue that the Rangers were facing (although we all know it's Lundqvist's fault in the end)

Pirri has not looked comfortable to me in a while, even at wing. Of course he's cold now, but he's traditionally been a streaky scorer. I have no problem with Fast sitting but I don't think it should be at Lindberg's expense. If it were up to me that fourth line would be Vesey Lindberg Fast. Pirri has stayed in the lineup due to the injuries up front but at this point I would say both Lindberg and Fast are playing better than Pirri.

PV, who would be your choice to replace AV if he's fired tomorrow? Beukeboom? External candidate? Sather?


adding my 2 cents here. I think Lindberg belongs above anybody on that 4th line. Vesey's been tailing off and maybe the longer than a college season is wearing on him. Fast while small and kinda weak is still defensively responsible which is what a 4th liner maybe needs to be. Still, he's small and not very strong so the weightroom is needed. And Pirri - for all the great pre-season and early PP specialization, he's a liability defensively and not an asset for a team that needs at least 1 defensive line.

So WTF, AV? Any clue why you do what you do?
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concust
Posted 2017-01-18 7:46 AM (#666523 - in reply to #666452)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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sureshore - 2017-01-17 4:56 PM

concust - 2017-01-17 3:54 PM

PV29 - 2017-01-16 6:39 PM

Those first three lines are actually what they should be and give the Rangers a serious matchup advantage against most if not all defenders. But of course AV can't sit out his pet Fast. So Lindberg sits and Pirri gets moved from wing, where he looks comfortable, to center. Lindberg has been solid and slowly improving since he got back in the lineup, there's no valid reason to sit him. He actually hits opposing players and knocks them off the puck. I guess he's just not "Quickie" enough.

Fire AV.


Kind of incredible that the entire second line was injured just a short while ago. Speaks to the depth issue that the Rangers were facing (although we all know it's Lundqvist's fault in the end)

Pirri has not looked comfortable to me in a while, even at wing. Of course he's cold now, but he's traditionally been a streaky scorer. I have no problem with Fast sitting but I don't think it should be at Lindberg's expense. If it were up to me that fourth line would be Vesey Lindberg Fast. Pirri has stayed in the lineup due to the injuries up front but at this point I would say both Lindberg and Fast are playing better than Pirri.

PV, who would be your choice to replace AV if he's fired tomorrow? Beukeboom? External candidate? Sather?


adding my 2 cents here. I think Lindberg belongs above anybody on that 4th line. Vesey's been tailing off and maybe the longer than a college season is wearing on him. Fast while small and kinda weak is still defensively responsible which is what a 4th liner maybe needs to be. Still, he's small and not very strong so the weightroom is needed. And Pirri - for all the great pre-season and early PP specialization, he's a liability defensively and not an asset for a team that needs at least 1 defensive line.

So WTF, AV? Any clue why you do what you do?


Don't disagree with any of that, a couple extra days off for Vesey may do him good. Feb/March is generally when first year college players start hitting the wall in the NHL. Some guys adjust better than others, but not surprising at all.

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RANGERNUT
Posted 2017-01-18 8:28 AM (#666525 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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PV29
Posted 2017-01-18 10:29 AM (#666529 - in reply to #666450)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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concust - 2017-01-17 3:54 PM

PV, who would be your choice to replace AV if he's fired tomorrow? Beukeboom? External candidate? Sather?


I wouldn't mind Beuk getting a shot, I just don't know if he's ready to step in just yet.

Other possibilities?
- Ron Wilson
- Guy Boucher

A real crazy twist? How about Craig Berube?
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PV29
Posted 2017-01-18 10:32 AM (#666530 - in reply to #666451)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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Mikey Red - 2017-01-17 5:34 PM

Jack Capuano


The Isles fired this guy despite the fact that the GM never got him a decent, consistent goalie. Or a scoring winger to compliment Tavares. And they let go of Franz Nielsen and Okposo, their two best scoring wingers, while grabbing two aging power wingers on the downside of their career (Chimera and Ladd).

Snow should be the one waiting for the cab outside the arena, not Capuano.

And yeah, I wouldn't mind him coaching the Rangers.
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concust
Posted 2017-01-18 1:04 PM (#666533 - in reply to #666530)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers



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PV29 - 2017-01-18 11:32 AM

Mikey Red - 2017-01-17 5:34 PM

Jack Capuano


The Isles fired this guy despite the fact that the GM never got him a decent, consistent goalie. Or a scoring winger to compliment Tavares. And they let go of Franz Nielsen and Okposo, their two best scoring wingers, while grabbing two aging power wingers on the downside of their career (Chimera and Ladd).

Snow should be the one waiting for the cab outside the arena, not Capuano.

And yeah, I wouldn't mind him coaching the Rangers.


Like I said in the other thread, the coach is the fall guy. Always has been, always will be. Last year or two it looked like the Isles were on the cusp of turning it around. But after a number of questionable personnel decisions (by Snow, not Capuano) letting Okposo go without a replacement plan, signing Eric Boulton, (?!) reportedly was offered Taylor Hall for Hamonic (who famously requested a trade to Alberta). This is all without even touching on the goaltending issues or signing a declining Ladd (who has underproduced but, not Cap's fault)

OTOH, I cry no tears for the Islanders. Suckers!

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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-02-02 6:07 AM (#666889 - in reply to #666257)
Subject: Re: The 2017 New York Rangers


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https://www.yahoo.com/news/hockey-fan-baby-chants-lets-150000741.htm...
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