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Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-02-28 7:33 AM (#667578 - in reply to #667576)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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concust - 2017-02-28 7:23 AM

doesn't whine like crybaby (you know who i'm talking about)



Crosby or Tavares?
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concust
Posted 2017-02-28 7:37 AM (#667579 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Blueshirt Banter piece on selling pieces off for assets:

Here is the kicker: Sub in Pavel Buchnevich for Grabner and Adam Clendening for Holden/Klein. Are the Rangers meaningfully worse off for this season? Are they not still an offensively-gifted, Lundqvist-backed team with enough firepower to surprise the Penguins and Capitals? Is the nuance really worth passing on a bounty of draft picks?


http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2017/2/28/14758678/rangers-should-pr...

Totally agree. Holden/Klein are not difference makers, Grabner is, but it's not like he's 23 and scored 26 goals, he's having a good year and will regress. After the preseason everyone though Pirri would be good for 20 goals but look what happened to him.

I bet between Holden and Klein you can get a second and third, and if Grabner can return a first and a second, that is a HAUL for what are ultimately expendable pieces. Also remember we're probably losing one of them, or Lindberg/Fast, at the expansion draft anyway, so cash in while they still have value.


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concust
Posted 2017-02-28 7:58 AM (#667580 - in reply to #667578)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Mikey Red - 2017-02-28 8:33 AM

concust - 2017-02-28 7:23 AM

doesn't whine like crybaby (you know who i'm talking about)



Crosby or Tavares?


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Mandar
Posted 2017-02-28 8:00 AM (#667581 - in reply to #667579)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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concust - 2017-02-28 9:37 AM

Blueshirt Banter piece on selling pieces off for assets:

Here is the kicker: Sub in Pavel Buchnevich for Grabner and Adam Clendening for Holden/Klein. Are the Rangers meaningfully worse off for this season? Are they not still an offensively-gifted, Lundqvist-backed team with enough firepower to surprise the Penguins and Capitals? Is the nuance really worth passing on a bounty of draft picks?


http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2017/2/28/14758678/rangers-should-pr...

Totally agree. Holden/Klein are not difference makers, Grabner is, but it's not like he's 23 and scored 26 goals, he's having a good year and will regress. After the preseason everyone though Pirri would be good for 20 goals but look what happened to him.

I bet between Holden and Klein you can get a second and third, and if Grabner can return a first and a second, that is a HAUL for what are ultimately expendable pieces. Also remember we're probably losing one of them, or Lindberg/Fast, at the expansion draft anyway, so cash in while they still have value.


by trading for draft picks (in a supposedly bad draft)....and basically giving up players who have gotten them to a point where they have the 5th best record in the NHL, what message are you sending? Giving up on this year? I like Buch, but at this point, no....he cant replace Grabner. And while Clendo has played fine, no.... he cant replace what Klein & Holden have brought to the team this year.

Too many fans get all gaga over draft picks in trades, but I'll take the established players pretty much every time....luxury of knowing what you have versus what you hope to have. This team has a great blend of younger players with the older ones.....somehow having done that without all those picks traded away.
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concust
Posted 2017-02-28 8:05 AM (#667582 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Blackhawks can be talked into trading some prospects,

https://theathletic.com/41048/2017/02/28/blackhawks-seeking-to-trade...

I had wanted McNeill when the Rangers picked Miller in 2011 but it's clear NYR made the right choice. I think McNeill's window has closed, but Pokka is the one that's intriguing to me. 22 year old RHD, (defensemen develop slower remember), led the Ice Hogs in ice time and points for the past 2 seasons. Hasn't been able to crack the Hawks' lineup, but the Hawk's lineup is pretty not bad! He's clearly right on the cusp of an NHL debut/job, but the organization/timing hasn't been right. Plus he's finnish and finns are awesome.

Would definitely be worth taking a flyer on, a mid-late round pick should do it. The last unheralded AHL defenseman that I wanted the Rangers to pursue was Brendan Dillon. We'd be in a lot better shape on defense if that had actually happened.



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concust
Posted 2017-02-28 8:23 AM (#667583 - in reply to #667581)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Mandar - 2017-02-28 9:00 AM

concust - 2017-02-28 9:37 AM

Blueshirt Banter piece on selling pieces off for assets:

Here is the kicker: Sub in Pavel Buchnevich for Grabner and Adam Clendening for Holden/Klein. Are the Rangers meaningfully worse off for this season? Are they not still an offensively-gifted, Lundqvist-backed team with enough firepower to surprise the Penguins and Capitals? Is the nuance really worth passing on a bounty of draft picks?


http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2017/2/28/14758678/rangers-should-pr...

Totally agree. Holden/Klein are not difference makers, Grabner is, but it's not like he's 23 and scored 26 goals, he's having a good year and will regress. After the preseason everyone though Pirri would be good for 20 goals but look what happened to him.

I bet between Holden and Klein you can get a second and third, and if Grabner can return a first and a second, that is a HAUL for what are ultimately expendable pieces. Also remember we're probably losing one of them, or Lindberg/Fast, at the expansion draft anyway, so cash in while they still have value.


by trading for draft picks (in a supposedly bad draft)....and basically giving up players who have gotten them to a point where they have the 5th best record in the NHL, what message are you sending? Giving up on this year? I like Buch, but at this point, no....he cant replace Grabner. And while Clendo has played fine, no.... he cant replace what Klein & Holden have brought to the team this year.

Too many fans get all gaga over draft picks in trades, but I'll take the established players pretty much every time....luxury of knowing what you have versus what you hope to have. This team has a great blend of younger players with the older ones.....somehow having done that without all those picks traded away.


Buchnevich is a downgrade vs Grabner but Clendening and a depth defensemen you pick up from another team (Smith or whatever), is not going to be a huge downgrade vs Klein/Holden. It's actually less "giving up on this year" as the Blues have already given their fans. We're not winning the Cup, we're not making the ECF this year. Why not sell high on some spare parts and reload for 2018? Plus it puts us in a better position for the expansion draft. We could potentially be losing one of those guys for nothing, you want to minimize the value of the asset you'll lose. Would you rather lose Grabner in the expansion draft, or, trade him away for assets now, and end up losing Brenden Smith or some other depth guy that fits the requirement?

Grabner, Holden, Klein, or not, we're making the playoffs, and by my estimation, we're going to go about as deep into the playoffs whether we have these guys or not, so take what you can get at this point.

Looking back on the Staal trade, we were in a similar situation, strength-wise. Did we need Staal? Did he help? If we hadn't made that trade, would we have gotten swept in the playoffs? Did his presence matter at all to anything, or is it now just another piece of NYR trivia? Wouldn't we be in a much better spot to push for a 2017 Cup if we had 2 second round picks and Saarela to work with also? It was less that the deal itself was bad, it's that it was a bad time for that deal.

I'd rather have a good shot at a 2018 Cup than a mediocre shot at a 2017 Cup and another mediocre shot in 2018, because we keep divesting just enough assets to keep us behind.


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concust
Posted 2017-02-28 8:25 AM (#667584 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Having said that, if they can get a piece that will help them long-term, and also helps the roster now, (Trouba, Faulk, etc) I would be open to that. Just advocating smart asset management.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-02-28 8:25 AM (#667585 - in reply to #667582)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Concust dont sell Tavares short he is bad lol....
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-02-28 9:34 AM (#667590 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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The position we are in with the bodies we have...Yes we need serious D help...but there is none out there to get...other than maybe Trouba and a too steep price tag unless they take Stepan or Zib...and they have nothing in Hartford...If you can get Duchense and or Landeskog for Stepan etc...I think do it...They are young and can be here for a long time....Only because it seems Colorado has to deal them.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-02-28 9:49 AM (#667591 - in reply to #667579)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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concust - 2017-02-28 6:37 AM

Blueshirt Banter piece on selling pieces off for assets:

Here is the kicker: Sub in Pavel Buchnevich for Grabner and Adam Clendening for Holden/Klein. Are the Rangers meaningfully worse off for this season? Are they not still an offensively-gifted, Lundqvist-backed team with enough firepower to surprise the Penguins and Capitals? Is the nuance really worth passing on a bounty of draft picks?


http://www.blueshirtbanter.com/2017/2/28/14758678/rangers-should-pr...

Totally agree. Holden/Klein are not difference makers, Grabner is, but it's not like he's 23 and scored 26 goals, he's having a good year and will regress. After the preseason everyone though Pirri would be good for 20 goals but look what happened to him.

I bet between Holden and Klein you can get a second and third, and if Grabner can return a first and a second, that is a HAUL for what are ultimately expendable pieces. Also remember we're probably losing one of them, or Lindberg/Fast, at the expansion draft anyway, so cash in while they still have value.








Basically the article says the Rangers should trade Holden, Klein, and Grabner and use the resources acquired to get BETTER players. Every GM in the league wants to trade nothing for something. But the assets acquired for those three are not going to turn into players, making the Rangers any better than they are now. I don't have a problem trading anyone of the three, and a opportunity to sell high on Grabner may be there. If, a rival GM has a Doug Risebrough / Cliff Fletcher Doug Gilmour trade moment, maybe, but trades are subject to a lot of input from staffs and steals are few and far between. When you buy low on Grabner and Holden, like the Rangers did, other GM's are going to recognize that and be reluctant to overpay for a flash in the pan. First round picks are not happening for either one and second round picks might get you a player in 5 years or be used to acquire a Eric Staal and are the Rangers any better with him over Grabner? A couple of seconds for the three of them is hardly a bounty and not much in the way of currency to replace arguably your second best defenseman and a top goal scorer.
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Mandar
Posted 2017-02-28 12:18 PM (#667618 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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?@DarrenDreger


Viktor Stalberg to the Senators for a 3rd in 2017
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RANGERNUT
Posted 2017-03-01 4:04 AM (#667728 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Good read from Gorton interview before the Caps game last night...

•On the market overall, "It's not over. The market in general, if you want a player in this market, generally you are going to overpay and that is the way it is if you look at all the trades.
•How active will you be in the next 24 hours, "like everyone else we are talking, lots of conversations. What will happen, I don't know but right now it's fairly quiet."
•What would you like to do, "get better. I like our team, I think we have a good team. I think we have had a good year. We have a ways to go to get where we want to. If something is out there that will improve us in any area, we will do it."

much more here ...

https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/what-jeff-gorton-said-about-brendan-...

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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 7:39 AM (#667738 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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[VAN/SJ] Jannik Hansen for Nikolay Goldobin and conditional 4th rounder
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 7:54 AM (#667740 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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Detroit sends Steve Ott to Montreal for a 6th rounder
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concust
Posted 2017-03-01 9:16 AM (#667745 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Oduya to Blackhawks for Mark McNeill and a conditional 4th
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 9:44 AM (#667746 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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Elliotte Friedman
? ?@FriedgeHNIC

Vanek to FLA for a third-rounder.

dylan mcilrath & 3rd round pick going to the Red Wings with Detroit picking up 50% of Vanek's salary

Edited by Mandar 2017-03-01 9:50 AM
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 10:13 AM (#667749 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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Canadiens acquire forward Dwight King from the Los Angeles Kings, in return for a conditional 4th round pick in 2018.
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robstones
Posted 2017-03-01 10:15 AM (#667750 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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We trade McIlrath for Kampfer and a conditional 7th rounder, when we could've traded him with a conditional 3rd rounder for Vanek
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 10:16 AM (#667751 - in reply to #667750)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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robstones - 2017-03-01 12:15 PM

We trade McIlrath for Kampfer and a conditional 7th rounder, when we could've traded him with a conditional 3rd rounder for Vanek


False equivalency......c'mon Robby, you know better.
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concust
Posted 2017-03-01 10:29 AM (#667753 - in reply to #667751)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:16 AM

robstones - 2017-03-01 12:15 PM

We trade McIlrath for Kampfer and a conditional 7th rounder, when we could've traded him with a conditional 3rd rounder for Vanek


False equivalency......c'mon Robby, you know better.


OTOH this does make the price we paid for Smith seem rather expensive.
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concust
Posted 2017-03-01 10:33 AM (#667754 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Missed this one,

Desharnais to Oilers for Brandon Davidson

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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 10:36 AM (#667755 - in reply to #667753)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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concust - 2017-03-01 12:29 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:16 AM

robstones - 2017-03-01 12:15 PM

We trade McIlrath for Kampfer and a conditional 7th rounder, when we could've traded him with a conditional 3rd rounder for Vanek


False equivalency......c'mon Robby, you know better.


OTOH this does make the price we paid for Smith seem rather expensive.

Don't see what this deal has to do with the Smith deal at all....no common elements
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concust
Posted 2017-03-01 10:37 AM (#667756 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Minor Moves -

Cannata to Avs from Capitals, for Corbett
Ranford to Avs from Coyotes, for Whitney
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concust
Posted 2017-03-01 10:44 AM (#667758 - in reply to #667755)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:36 AM

concust - 2017-03-01 12:29 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:16 AM

robstones - 2017-03-01 12:15 PM

We trade McIlrath for Kampfer and a conditional 7th rounder, when we could've traded him with a conditional 3rd rounder for Vanek


False equivalency......c'mon Robby, you know better.


OTOH this does make the price we paid for Smith seem rather expensive.

Don't see what this deal has to do with the Smith deal at all....no common elements


I am saying that when you compare what the Red Wings got in return for Vanek and Smith, two pending UFAs on rental trades, either the value of Smith seems to be inflated, or, the cats got a deal for Vanek.

Smith - 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick
Vanek - 3rd round pick, minor league defenseman, +50% salary retained.

Vanek has 38 points in 48 games, is arguably a top 6 forward on the Panthers and could have been a top 6 forward for the NYR as well.

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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 10:55 AM (#667759 - in reply to #667758)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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concust - 2017-03-01 12:44 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:36 AM

concust - 2017-03-01 12:29 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:16 AM

robstones - 2017-03-01 12:15 PM

We trade McIlrath for Kampfer and a conditional 7th rounder, when we could've traded him with a conditional 3rd rounder for Vanek


False equivalency......c'mon Robby, you know better.


OTOH this does make the price we paid for Smith seem rather expensive.

Don't see what this deal has to do with the Smith deal at all....no common elements


I am saying that when you compare what the Red Wings got in return for Vanek and Smith, two pending UFAs on rental trades, either the value of Smith seems to be inflated, or, the cats got a deal for Vanek.

Smith - 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick
Vanek - 3rd round pick, minor league defenseman, +50% salary retained.

Vanek has 38 points in 48 games, is arguably a top 6 forward on the Panthers and could have been a top 6 forward for the NYR as well.


Or....they play different positions, and the market for each was different

Or...Dwight King got a 4th from Montreal for the Kings...makes as much sense to throw that in the mix ("we could have had him for our 4th??...can't believe we didn't do that!!"

Or...those deals were made independently with the Wings getting the best value they could for each

This stupid "or" game can be fun, right?
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 10:57 AM (#667761 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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Iginla to the Kings for a conditional pick
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concust
Posted 2017-03-01 11:01 AM (#667764 - in reply to #667759)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:55 AM

concust - 2017-03-01 12:44 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:36 AM

concust - 2017-03-01 12:29 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:16 AM

robstones - 2017-03-01 12:15 PM

We trade McIlrath for Kampfer and a conditional 7th rounder, when we could've traded him with a conditional 3rd rounder for Vanek


False equivalency......c'mon Robby, you know better.


OTOH this does make the price we paid for Smith seem rather expensive.

Don't see what this deal has to do with the Smith deal at all....no common elements


I am saying that when you compare what the Red Wings got in return for Vanek and Smith, two pending UFAs on rental trades, either the value of Smith seems to be inflated, or, the cats got a deal for Vanek.

Smith - 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick
Vanek - 3rd round pick, minor league defenseman, +50% salary retained.

Vanek has 38 points in 48 games, is arguably a top 6 forward on the Panthers and could have been a top 6 forward for the NYR as well.


Or....they play different positions, and the market for each was different

Or...Dwight King got a 4th from Montreal for the Kings...makes as much sense to throw that in the mix ("we could have had him for our 4th??...can't believe we didn't do that!!")

Or...those deals were made independently with the Wings getting the best value they could for each

This stupid "or" game can be fun, right?


All valid points, but, don't think I won't be bookmarking this for when you compare two things in the future.

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concust
Posted 2017-03-01 11:03 AM (#667765 - in reply to #667761)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:57 AM

Iginla to the Kings for a conditional pick


I'm hearing the condition is, "no backsies"

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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 11:05 AM (#667766 - in reply to #667764)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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concust - 2017-03-01 1:01 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:55 AM

concust - 2017-03-01 12:44 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:36 AM

concust - 2017-03-01 12:29 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:16 AM

robstones - 2017-03-01 12:15 PM

We trade McIlrath for Kampfer and a conditional 7th rounder, when we could've traded him with a conditional 3rd rounder for Vanek


False equivalency......c'mon Robby, you know better.


OTOH this does make the price we paid for Smith seem rather expensive.

Don't see what this deal has to do with the Smith deal at all....no common elements


I am saying that when you compare what the Red Wings got in return for Vanek and Smith, two pending UFAs on rental trades, either the value of Smith seems to be inflated, or, the cats got a deal for Vanek.

Smith - 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick
Vanek - 3rd round pick, minor league defenseman, +50% salary retained.

Vanek has 38 points in 48 games, is arguably a top 6 forward on the Panthers and could have been a top 6 forward for the NYR as well.


Or....they play different positions, and the market for each was different

Or...Dwight King got a 4th from Montreal for the Kings...makes as much sense to throw that in the mix ("we could have had him for our 4th??...can't believe we didn't do that!!"

Or...those deals were made independently with the Wings getting the best value they could for each

This stupid "or" game can be fun, right?


All valid points, but, don't think I won't be bookmarking this for when you compare two things in the future.


I can respect that.
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 11:08 AM (#667767 - in reply to #667765)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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concust - 2017-03-01 1:03 PM

Mandar - 2017-03-01 11:57 AM

Iginla to the Kings for a conditional pick


I'm hearing the condition is, "no backsies"


It's a conditional 4th rounder in 2018. Av's also retained 50% of his salary.
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PV29
Posted 2017-03-01 12:02 PM (#667774 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Habs get tougher. Grab Steve Ott for a 6th round pick and Dwight King for a 4th round pick.

Of course, the team that got manhandled last night doesn't seem to be interested in adding players like this for the playoffs.

#FireAV
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 12:08 PM (#667776 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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Canadiens acquire forward Andreas Martinsen from the Colorado Avalanche, in return for forward Sven Andrighetto
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 12:09 PM (#667777 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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NJ trades Kyle Quincey to Columbus for Prout
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 12:23 PM (#667783 - in reply to #666923)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern


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[PHI/TB] Streit for Filppula, 4th in 2017 & Cond. 7th in 2017

Edited by Mandar 2017-03-01 12:29 PM
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concust
Posted 2017-03-01 12:33 PM (#667785 - in reply to #667783)
Subject: Re: Trade Deadline - March 1st - 3pm Eastern



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Mandar - 2017-03-01 1:23 PM

[PHI/TB] Streit for Filppula, 4th in 2017 & Cond. 7th in 2017


Now this one I don't get... why does Tampa make that deal? They're basically giving away assets for a old UFA defenseman. Is this a cap deal?
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