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Gorton's Conundrum
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Tyutin in the Staal
Posted 2017-03-01 6:14 AM (#667729)
Subject: Gorton's Conundrum


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I am losing faith in Gorton. Yes, he has been dealt a bad hand with a number of bloated and unmovable contracts, but surely he must recognize that there is no way whatsoever that this team can compete with Washington, Pittsburgh and Columbus. We should not delude ourselves that Montreal would be a walkover either – have you ever looked at the NYR’s lifetime record against Montreal? Yikes! Yes, we beat Montreal in the playoffs a few years ago, but I don’t think anyone would dispute that Montreal now clearly has the better goalie – in short, Lundqvist is not going to steal a series for us, while Price certainly could. Montreal is also 2-0 versus the NYR this year.

So, why does Gorton continue to mortgage the future? I will say that he has done a good job patching together a lineup that is successful and entertaining to watch – on most nights. Nevertheless, we have seen that the top teams in the East generally have their way with the Rangers due in large part to the NYR’s lack of physical play, lack of true star power, lack of depth on defense and a fading goaltender.
Why not take a radical approach, similar to what the Yankees did last year? What could Lundqvist fetch given this seller’s market? Would there be draft picks and prospects available for Staal, Girardi and Nash? I know they have NMC’s, but perhaps for a legitimate chance at the Cup one or might waive their NMC. I would certainly deal Stepan before his NMC kicks in.

It is clear that Gorton has no interest in pursuing a rebuild, so I know this is a pipedream. As such, we’re basically in for many more years or good, but not great hockey, without any true stars to rally around. I truly wish Gorton would follow Cashman’s blueprint.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-03-01 6:22 AM (#667730 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum



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How do you know "Gorton has no interest in pursuing a rebuild"?
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Tyutin in the Staal
Posted 2017-03-01 6:38 AM (#667731 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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Sending two relatively high draft picks for a 28 year old third pair D suggests that he still has delusions of grandeur.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-03-01 6:40 AM (#667732 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum



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Not in the least.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-03-01 7:01 AM (#667733 - in reply to #667732)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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I did at least like when Gorton said last nite that We are a ways from where we want to to be. What he can do about it we'll see
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-03-01 7:04 AM (#667734 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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According to NHL Network, whats out there is a yuck fest
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Tyutin in the Staal
Posted 2017-03-01 7:14 AM (#667735 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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Agreed on all points, which is why we should try to sell some assets when it is clearly a seller's market. We need to restock the farm!
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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-01 7:16 AM (#667736 - in reply to #667731)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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Tyutin in the Staal - 2017-03-01 8:38 AM

Sending two relatively high draft picks for a 28 year old third pair D suggests that he still has delusions of grandeur.


Mortgaging the future?

Delusions of grandeur?


C'mon.....a third this year, and a 2nd next year hardly justifies your hyperbole.

Sure, they need a few tweaks here and there....but the future is definitely bright for this team.
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Tyutin in the Staal
Posted 2017-03-01 7:29 AM (#667737 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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Mortgaging the future has to be taken in context. When you have a dearth of draft picks and few blue chip prospects, every pick counts in my view. Delusions of grandeur, I guess it's whether you're content with winning a round or two or you really want to build a team that can legitimately compete for the Cup.
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concust
Posted 2017-03-01 7:44 AM (#667739 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum



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We are a playoff team, we have basically been a playoff team since November. We banked enough points early on that playoffs were basically a foregone conclusion (as long as the wheels don't completely fall off the bus).

With the team being a consistent playoff team, it does not make business sense to do a tear-down rebuild. It's just not going to happen, and to a large degree you and everyone else, needs to accept this. If we were a .500 team this year and out of the playoff race by Christmas, then absolutely I would advocate for a tear-down rebuild. But as long as this team has some on-ice success, it's not going to happen.

I somewhat disagree with Gorton trading two picks for Brendan Smith, as he's not a difference maker. I agree with you actually, that the team is either all in, or you're out. Continuing to make half-hearted moves at the deadline, like Smith and E. Staal, only serve to continue to weaken your own team. We aren't winning the Cup this year, we weren't winning the Cup last year, or the year before (Yandle).

Imagine if instead of peddling away a couple of picks and prospects every year, you didn't do that and hoarded them. And then every other year, you make a real push, you go get your Shattenkirk and your Gaborik and Oduya and load the F up for the playoff run, with those assets you didn't piddle away for Staal and Smith. You sell off assets like Holden, Stalberg, etc at the deadline, on the off years, to load up with assets even more. You have a legitimate contender every other year, instead of having a half-assed attempt every year.

It's possible to walk the line between the business decision of getting the playoff revenue, and smart asset management, especially in the years where it really isn't going to be your year. It doesn't necessitate a full teardown rebuild and picking in the top 5 for 3 consecutive years. It just means you need to have a more honest look at the team you have, and be smart in maximizing what you can get for it. They just refuse to do it.
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robstones
Posted 2017-03-01 8:32 AM (#667743 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum



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Location: New Jersey
Miller Hayes Vesey Buchnevich Zibenejad Skjei Clenndening Fast Lindberg

are all 25 or younger

Stepan Is 26 McDonagh is 27

They have a 1st round pick this year (finally) but our prospect pool is pretty thin. No one to really get excited about. Gropp has some potential.... Morrison.... Graves still may pan out.... Halverson and more importantly Shestyorkin is probably our top prospect at this point

But The Rangers need to **** or get off the pot. Really hope they can get some nice pieces today, but after this season Gorton may very well sell. This draft is supposedly weak, so he may look to add picks for 2018

Edited by robstones 2017-03-01 8:33 AM
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Rranger
Posted 2017-03-01 11:20 AM (#667768 - in reply to #667743)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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robstones - 2017-03-01 7:32 AM

Miller Hayes Vesey Buchnevich Zibenejad Skjei Clenndening Fast Lindberg

are all 25 or younger

Stepan Is 26 McDonagh is 27

They have a 1st round pick this year (finally) but our prospect pool is pretty thin. No one to really get excited about. Gropp has some potential.... Morrison.... Graves still may pan out.... Halverson and more importantly Shestyorkin is probably our top prospect at this point

But The Rangers need to **** or get off the pot. Really hope they can get some nice pieces today, but after this season Gorton may very well sell. This draft is supposedly weak, so he may look to add picks for 2018






If Morrison is 1/2 what is old man was he will be a Ranger.
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Tyutin in the Staal
Posted 2017-03-02 12:37 PM (#667848 - in reply to #667743)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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Great points robstones, I agree with everything you noted. I must say that I came away very disappointed with Gorton's moves at the deadline. We still have an entertaining team that will finish third or fourth in the division and perhaps the conference, but does anyone really see this team making a serious run to the Cup? Games against the Pens, Caps, Habs and Jackets expose that the NYR can beat up on most teams in the West and others in the East, but they cannot compete with the big boys in the East. In fairness, the aforementioned teams are truly elite, they can skate, they have toughness, mobile D and great goaltending, so few teams can compete.

So, what's my point? Well, Gorton straddled the fence. Gave up more of our very few draft picks for a serviceable D. Why bother if you're not going to go all in? Not that anything available would have tipped the balance in our favor against the Caps, for example. So, I still maintain that Gorton should have taken what he could get for Girardi, Staal, Nash, Pirri and perhaps Lundqvist. It would have been exciting to have more than one first round draft pick, for example. Despite our dearth of picks in recent years, the scouting department has done quite well. I'd like to see what they could do with a few first round picks!
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-03-02 2:35 PM (#667851 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum



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The only player on your list that would have yielded a first round pick is Lundqvist.
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robstones
Posted 2017-03-02 2:39 PM (#667853 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum



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I think they can compete. I think The Rangers are one of the top teams. They have depth, chemistry, and experience. I'm not scared of any of the potential opponents, and if things stay the way they are in the standings, going through the Atlantic could be the path to get there.

Are they favorites? No.... but they can win
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concust
Posted 2017-03-02 3:21 PM (#667855 - in reply to #667768)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum



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Rranger - 2017-03-01 12:20 PM

robstones - 2017-03-01 7:32 AM

Miller Hayes Vesey Buchnevich Zibenejad Skjei Clenndening Fast Lindberg

are all 25 or younger

Stepan Is 26 McDonagh is 27

They have a 1st round pick this year (finally) but our prospect pool is pretty thin. No one to really get excited about. Gropp has some potential.... Morrison.... Graves still may pan out.... Halverson and more importantly Shestyorkin is probably our top prospect at this point

But The Rangers need to **** or get off the pot. Really hope they can get some nice pieces today, but after this season Gorton may very well sell. This draft is supposedly weak, so he may look to add picks for 2018




If Morrison is 1/2 what is old man was he will be a Ranger.



??? His father played all of 23 NHL games, over two seasons.

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Mandar
Posted 2017-03-02 4:11 PM (#667861 - in reply to #667855)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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concust - 2017-03-02 5:21 PM

Rranger - 2017-03-01 12:20 PM

robstones - 2017-03-01 7:32 AM

Miller Hayes Vesey Buchnevich Zibenejad Skjei Clenndening Fast Lindberg

are all 25 or younger

Stepan Is 26 McDonagh is 27

They have a 1st round pick this year (finally) but our prospect pool is pretty thin. No one to really get excited about. Gropp has some potential.... Morrison.... Graves still may pan out.... Halverson and more importantly Shestyorkin is probably our top prospect at this point

But The Rangers need to **** or get off the pot. Really hope they can get some nice pieces today, but after this season Gorton may very well sell. This draft is supposedly weak, so he may look to add picks for 2018




If Morrison is 1/2 what is old man was he will be a Ranger.



??? His father played all of 23 NHL games, over two seasons.


Yeah, but it was a special 23 games....
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Rranger
Posted 2017-03-02 7:50 PM (#667971 - in reply to #667861)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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Mandar - 2017-03-02 3:11 PM

concust - 2017-03-02 5:21 PM

Rranger - 2017-03-01 12:20 PM

robstones - 2017-03-01 7:32 AM

Miller Hayes Vesey Buchnevich Zibenejad Skjei Clenndening Fast Lindberg

are all 25 or younger

Stepan Is 26 McDonagh is 27

They have a 1st round pick this year (finally) but our prospect pool is pretty thin. No one to really get excited about. Gropp has some potential.... Morrison.... Graves still may pan out.... Halverson and more importantly Shestyorkin is probably our top prospect at this point

But The Rangers need to **** or get off the pot. Really hope they can get some nice pieces today, but after this season Gorton may very well sell. This draft is supposedly weak, so he may look to add picks for 2018




If Morrison is 1/2 what is old man was he will be a Ranger.



??? His father played all of 23 NHL games, over two seasons.


Yeah, but it was a special 23 games....









Bolts of lightning shot from his stick, his skating and puck handling mercurial and swifter than any other. Only his unwise beaking of one Harry Sinden kept him from a long NHL career.
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2017-03-03 1:13 PM (#667978 - in reply to #667743)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum



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robstones - 2017-03-01 10:32 AM

Miller Hayes Vesey Buchnevich Zibenejad Skjei Clenndening Fast Lindberg

are all 25 or younger

Stepan Is 26 McDonagh is 27

They have a 1st round pick this year (finally) but our prospect pool is pretty thin. No one to really get excited about. Gropp has some potential.... Morrison.... Graves still may pan out.... Halverson and more importantly Shestyorkin is probably our top prospect at this point

But The Rangers need to **** or get off the pot. Really hope they can get some nice pieces today, but after this season Gorton may very well sell. This draft is supposedly weak, so he may look to add picks for 2018


Kreider, Pirri are 25.




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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-03-05 6:55 PM (#668043 - in reply to #667729)
Subject: Re: Gorton's Conundrum


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I think so far so good, so far another solid season & it is has been a fun season of skill & plenty of scoring (something only a couple of years ago we all complained). But, the East is a Beast, getting out of the East will be tough, real tough.
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