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AV sucks
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-16 11:04 AM (#671481 - in reply to #671477)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Mcphee - 2017-04-16 8:52 AM

Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-15 7:48 PM

They did the same thing under Torts for years. So no it isn't different players same coach.

Did anyone watch the Bruins/Sens game today? Did the Bruins coach tell them to sit back? Is it possible that maybe just maybe the Sens were desperate knowing an L and they were on life support just like the Habs would have been? Pretty much the same thing.

Crazy to think this, but there are two teams on the ice that are trying to win. I know we expect coaches and players to be perfect, but they won't be. Are you all perfect everyday? Are your bosses all perfect everyday? Of course not.

Reality is the Habs were desperate and took it to us, tip your cap. Just like the Sens were as well, tip your cap to them as well coming back to beat Boston in a very similar game 2 to our game 2.


You can't compare what they did under Torts to what they do under AV.Torts didn't have the offensive talent of this team,and had to adjust his coaching style accordingly,something this coach doesn't either know how to do,or refuses to do.Torts' teams were defensive based teams that capitalized on other teams mistakes.










Lol. Av was brought into fix Torts short comings but I guess he likes watching a team implode at the end of the game. I can hear him on the bench in Montreal " OK fellas let's play the rest of the game like you used to for Torts" come on 2017 admit coach choked.
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-16 12:01 PM (#671485 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Yes, the Rangers coach choked, the Bruins coach choked, the Hawks coach choked. They all choked. They all told their teams sit back. Don't score. They all choked. Nothing to do with the other team being paid to win games also. Or the other team being desperate to win. Nope...coaches all choked.



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PV29
Posted 2017-04-16 12:22 PM (#671487 - in reply to #671485)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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For the most part, this article is dead on:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/04/15/alain-vigneault-rangers-cana...


On Friday night in Montreal, Vigneault stuck to his principles by going into a defensive shell and got burned for it.

With a one-goal lead and 10 minutes remaining in the third period of Game 2, the Rangers invited constant pressure and defended for their lives.

Only once did the Rangers take a third-period faceoff in the offensive zone, compared to the 15 draws the Habs took in the Blueshirts’ end.

Vigneault made the questionable decision to send out struggling defense pair Nick Holden and Marc Staal with a minute left in the third, while the best-performing duo of the night, Brady Skjei and Brendan Smith, did not see the ice for the final two-and-a-half minutes of regulation.

There’s something that separates Bill Belichick from Dan Reeves and Red Auerbach from Jerry Sloan.

Vigneault has been given the league’s generational goaltender in Henrik Lundqvist, an all-around franchise defenseman in Ryan McDonagh, as well as two wingers who dominate all three zones in Rick Nash and Mats Zuccarello. He’s got a heck of a young core to work with in Chris Kreider, J.T. Miller, Kevin Hayes, Mika Zibanejad and Skjei.

Here’s where things get a little dicey with Vigneault. He was given Yandle and largely wasted his talents on the third pairing and second power-play unit. Now, he’s relegating Smith — and for that matter the second-best defenseman on this team in Skjei — to the third pair.


Pretty much what most here have been saying. AV sucks.
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PV29
Posted 2017-04-16 12:27 PM (#671488 - in reply to #671485)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-16 2:01 PM

Yes, the Rangers coach choked, the Bruins coach choked, the Hawks coach choked. They all choked. They all told their teams sit back. Don't score. They all choked. Nothing to do with the other team being paid to win games also. Or the other team being desperate to win. Nope...coaches all choked.




There's no evidence that any of those coaches did that. There is solid evidence that AV did. Loses happen, and not all due to what the coach does, so your point is silly. What happened in Game 2 was squarely on AV.
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Mcphee
Posted 2017-04-16 12:53 PM (#671490 - in reply to #671485)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-16 2:01 PM

Yes, the Rangers coach choked, the Bruins coach choked, the Hawks coach choked. They all choked. They all told their teams sit back. Don't score. They all choked. Nothing to do with the other team being paid to win games also. Or the other team being desperate to win. Nope...coaches all choked.



Why did the Rangers scheme of playing change so much in the third?If you're telling me that they went 100% against AV's wishes then it's mutiny and either the players or coach have to go.He should have had them playing the same way.This team's best defense is not being in their own zone.I understand if the defense doesn't pinch and a few other ways to be conservative,but this team is not built to play in their own end.

The other thing this team isn't built to do is play physical.I wonder how much of the physical play had to do with them being out of gas for the last 35 minutes or so.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-16 1:10 PM (#671492 - in reply to #671485)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-16 11:01 AM

Yes, the Rangers coach choked, the Bruins coach choked, the Hawks coach choked. They all choked. They all told their teams sit back. Don't score. They all choked. Nothing to do with the other team being paid to win games also. Or the other team being desperate to win. Nope...coaches all choked.







Well your getting the attention you crave and I will chime in to. Just because other teams lost doesn't mean the coach choked, and your comparison is silly and infantile at best with no substantiation. Stay on topic. Coach stopped forechecking the last 10 minutes. End of story.
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-16 1:59 PM (#671497 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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So only our coach choked when we lost...got it...LOL.

Same thing happened to Boston in Ottawa yesterday, but only our coach choked.

And OUR COACH stopped fore checking...good deal.






Edited by Rangers 2017 2017-04-16 2:00 PM
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-16 2:02 PM (#671498 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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And BTW...not saying they went against anybody. What I am saying is Montreal was a desperate team and took it to us...tip your cap to them. We almost survived, but Holden choked late (that decision you can get on AV for). No different than what happened to Boston yesterday when desperate Ottawa took it to them in the 3rd period and OT.


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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-16 2:25 PM (#671499 - in reply to #671498)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-16 1:02 PM

And BTW...not saying they went against anybody. What I am saying is Montreal was a desperate team and took it to us...tip your cap to them. We almost survived, but Holden choked late (that decision you can get on AV for). No different than what happened to Boston yesterday when desperate Ottawa took it to them in the 3rd period and OT.







And there you go again drawing on a totally different game to try to justify your opinion Montreal outplayed the Rangers in the third period. Just stop comparing generalities. Every one here except you saw the Rangers completely stop entering Montreals end starting about half way through the third period. That is either what the coach wanted or he would have addressed it and started sending one or two forecheckers into Montreals end. The correct observation is Montreal took what Vigneault gave them. Unimpeded entry into the Rangers zone.
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-16 2:36 PM (#671500 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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The point is sometimes you need to credit the other team. These are the playoffs not some minor league pickup game. Both the Habs and Sens were desperate and their play showed. Tip your cap to the other team and move on instead of looking to blame someone. Simple as that.



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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-04-16 2:41 PM (#671501 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: RE: AV sucks



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Bottom Line -- AV SUCKS!!
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Rranger
Posted 2017-04-16 9:12 PM (#671683 - in reply to #671500)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-16 1:36 PM

The point is sometimes you need to credit the other team. These are the playoffs not some minor league pickup game. Both the Habs and Sens were desperate and their play showed. Tip your cap to the other team and move on instead of looking to blame someone. Simple as that.








The reason you credit the other team is because they take advantage of what the other team gives them. In this case the Rangers give them unimpeded zone entries, and positioning in front of their net for the last ten minutes. Montreal lapped it up.
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 4:28 AM (#671691 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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We'll disagree on game 2. Game 3 last night is a whole other story. You will get no debate from me on that one. A pathetic "effort" once again at home. No life or passion from the second the puck dropped. That was an embarrassment.

Real curious to see what AV does after a performance like game 3. I am sure he will make changes, not sure what they will be though. Buch in for 13, 93, 20, 21, or 10 maybe? Could happen after that **** show last night.

Pathetic yet again at home with no effort. Sad.


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robstones
Posted 2017-04-17 5:58 AM (#671699 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks



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I've never been more made at him, until he started the 3rd period with

Kreider Stepan Fast
Nash Hayes Zuccarello
Miller Lindberg Vesey
Grabner Zibanejad Glass


That's what he thought would get this offense going.... Fast to the top 6. Stop playing Glass and Grabner, the only guys putting up any forecheck pressure....

Can't wait to see what he does tomorrow. Maybe Buchnevich gets a shot
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 6:08 AM (#671700 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Hard for me to be angry at AV for mixing up the lines when 8 or 9 of the 12 forwards didn't show up at all. You can get on him for not helping get them ready, but I cannot kill him for mixing things up after the disgusting first 2 periods. I would try anything at that point. Disgusting "effort".



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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-04-17 6:10 AM (#671701 - in reply to #671691)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-17 4:28 AM

We'll disagree on game 2. Game 3 last night is a whole other story. You will get no debate from me on that one. A pathetic "effort" once again at home. No life or passion from the second the puck dropped. That was an embarrassment.

Real curious to see what AV does after a performance like game 3. I am sure he will make changes, not sure what they will be though. Buch in for 13, 93, 20, 21, or 10 maybe? Could happen after that **** show last night.

Pathetic yet again at home with no effort. Sad.




This is exactly why AV sucks!!

The 5 forwards you mention you could argue should maybe sit a game, but they won't! Not only that, but he will keep Stepan on that top line playing top line minutes and taking the important face offs. Stepan won 1 face-off game 3. If he won't scratch him for one game at least move him down a few lines. Do we really lose anything switching 21 and 24??

Game 4, lines I would like to see, without saying which lines is #1,2,3,or 4

Kreider Lindberg, Zuc
Grabner, Hayes, Miller
Nash, Stepan, Vesey
Buch, Zib, Glass
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-04-17 6:13 AM (#671702 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Now what to do about the PP????
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 6:25 AM (#671704 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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You cannot sit 5 forwards, but I agree something needs to change. I actually would be somewhat fine with your lines. Move Lindberg up, why not dude plays hard at least. I wouldn't sit Fast, again at least he plays hard. I would try and get Buch in, but not on the 4th line. Not sure who I would sit for Buch. On merit Miller or Zib should sit.

Going to be very interesting to see what AV does for game 4. A lot of decisions to make.








Edited by Rangers 2017 2017-04-17 6:26 AM
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-04-17 6:30 AM (#671706 - in reply to #671704)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-17 6:25 AM

You cannot sit 5 forwards, but I agree something needs to change. I actually would be somewhat fine with your lines. Move Lindberg up, why not dude plays hard at least. I wouldn't sit Fast, again at least he plays hard. I would try and get Buch in, but not on the 4th line. Not sure who I would sit for Buch. On merit Miller or Zib should sit.

Going to be very interesting to see what AV does for game 4. A lot of decisions to make.







I understand you can't sit 5 forwards, but what I'm saying he won't sit any of those 5
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 6:55 AM (#671707 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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You can make a strong case that Zib should sit for Buch game 4.

Buch/Stepan/Zucc
Kreider/Hayes/Grabner
Vesey/Lindberg/Nash
Glass/Miller/Fast

Maybe something like that.




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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-04-17 7:03 AM (#671708 - in reply to #671707)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-17 6:55 AM

You can make a strong case that Zib should sit for Buch game 4.

Buch/Stepan/Zucc
Kreider/Hayes/Grabner
Vesey/Lindberg/Nash
Glass/Miller/Fast

Maybe something like that.






I can't and won't argue with this at all. I just wouldn't give Stepan top line minutes anymore, or have him on the top PP unit.

Miller at least seems to learn from his mistakes, Stepan however is just the same ol same ol, game after game after game
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 7:08 AM (#671709 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Not sure about Miller. Him, Hayes, and Zib have been the biggest dogs in this series. Kreider and Stepan are above them I think. But that bar is real low, so let's keep it in context. Being above 10, 13, and 93 isn't really saying much.

I also don't see any realistic way Stepan doesn't stay in the top 9. I can see Miller being on the 4th line though.



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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-04-17 7:14 AM (#671712 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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I can see Miller on the 4th line also, because thats AV'S coaching style..

Miller is more talented, faster, stronger, better on the forecheck and at the face off dot. He may make a bone headed play from time to time, but over all he is a much better player than Stepan
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Mandar
Posted 2017-04-17 7:19 AM (#671714 - in reply to #671712)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangerjunkie - 2017-04-17 9:14 AM

I can see Miller on the 4th line also, because thats AV'S coaching style..

Miller is more talented, faster, stronger, better on the forecheck and at the face off dot. He may make a bone headed play from time to time, but over all he is a much better player than Stepan


he deserves to be on that line.

C'mon....he isn't any of those things better than Stepan....now, I'm not saying that Step is playing well (none of them are for the most part). The biggest problem is that Miller is 1000x more stupid than Stepan....which will always hold him back if that doesn't change.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-04-17 7:29 AM (#671715 - in reply to #671714)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Mandar - 2017-04-17 7:19 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2017-04-17 9:14 AM

I can see Miller on the 4th line also, because thats AV'S coaching style..

Miller is more talented, faster, stronger, better on the forecheck and at the face off dot. He may make a bone headed play from time to time, but over all he is a much better player than Stepan


he deserves to be on that line.

C'mon....he isn't any of those things better than Stepan....now, I'm not saying that Step is playing well (none of them are for the most part). The biggest problem is that Miller is 1000x more stupid than Stepan....which will always hold him back if that doesn't change.


He's not faster and stronger than Stepan? He's not a better scorer than Setpan? C'mon Mandar I'll give you he's more stupid "at times" than Stepan, but there is no way Stepan has more talent than Miller
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 7:31 AM (#671716 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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He is stupider for sure Mandar...great post. Between Miller and Kreider not a lot of high hockey IQ. That's okay if they play hard and pound the net, it is not okay when their efforts are very low.


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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-04-17 7:34 AM (#671718 - in reply to #671716)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-17 7:31 AM

He is stupider for sure Mandar...great post. Between Miller and Kreider not a lot of high hockey IQ. That's okay if they play hard and pound the net, it is not okay when their efforts are very low.




Stepan 1 for 12 on face-offs last night.... Great effort though..
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-04-17 7:43 AM (#671721 - in reply to #671702)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangerjunkie - 2017-04-17 6:13 AM

Now what to do about the PP????

1. Decline
2. Everyone start in the neutral zone so they are in position when Stepan loses yet another faceoff
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 7:44 AM (#671722 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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I must have missed when either myself or Mandar wrote great effort by Stepan. I think the exact opposite was written actually. He can join a list of 7 or 8 other forwards with no effort last night. Miller's penalty was just flat out stupid though. That's low hockey IQ, and it happens often when he makes low % plays, and I love Miller. Same with Kreider. That has nothing to do with Stepan who is bringing not near enough either.





Edited by Rangers 2017 2017-04-17 7:45 AM
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-04-17 7:49 AM (#671726 - in reply to #671718)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangerjunkie - 2017-04-17 7:34 AM

Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-17 7:31 AM

He is stupider for sure Mandar...great post. Between Miller and Kreider not a lot of high hockey IQ. That's okay if they play hard and pound the net, it is not okay when their efforts are very low.




Stepan 1 for 12 on face-offs last night.... Great effort though..


In your post here it appears you are saying Miller and Kreiders play was very low effort. Everyones effort was poor last night.
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 7:50 AM (#671727 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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No...I said stupid not effort. There is a difference. They all played with no effort last night. Miller and Kreider are low IQ players as well, which Stepan is not.


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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-04-17 7:54 AM (#671729 - in reply to #671727)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Rangers 2017 - 2017-04-17 7:50 AM

No...I said stupid not effort. There is a difference. They all played with no effort last night. Miller and Kreider are low IQ players as well, which Stepan is not.



Maybe re-read your post... You did say they were stupid "Kreider and Miller" and that you are ok with that as long as their effort isn't low.


We're all good though
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 7:58 AM (#671731 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Yeah...I am...but their effort was low also. That is the point. Along with Stepan and a bunch of other forwards. If those guys play hard and produce you take the low hockey IQ in stride.


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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-04-17 8:00 AM (#671732 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Stepan should not be on the top line... ever...or the PP
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Rangers 2017
Posted 2017-04-17 8:02 AM (#671734 - in reply to #668758)
Subject: Re: AV sucks


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Not sure I disagree, but you have what you have. I cannot single out Stepan right now. He would be mid-pack of junk last night.


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