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Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:14 PM (#678293 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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The truth is the truth. Ziban is also on this team. He does exist, and when you look at the team you have to count him, despite your best efforts to pretend he doesn't exist. So AGAIN no shot we can have Shatt on this team if Stepan was here. That's reality.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:15 PM (#678294 - in reply to #678286)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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Mikey Red - 2017-07-22 8:04 PM

lucifer316 - 2017-07-22 6:00 PM

Mikey Red - 2017-07-22 7:55 PM

lucifer316 - 2017-07-22 4:59 PM


By that logic by trading Stepan we were able to keep Lundqvist on the team.

Dont tease me like that lol

Tease you like what. Trading Lundqvist.

Lol Yep..Right after the Cup loss would of been a good time....His contract is now albatross too

There was no value there to be honest. Contending teams don't need a goalie and you don't want what they have to offer and rebuilding teams don't need a goalie who isn't going to be in his prime when their rebuild hits full steam. The contract is a tough one that is for sure but we really couldn't have gotten much trading him and we certainly wouldn't have done better without him. Whether that is good or not is another question entirely.
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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:16 PM (#678295 - in reply to #678289)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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Mandar - 2017-07-22 8:11 PM

LUCE!!!!

Welcome back buddy! This place just got a whole lot more interesting

How you been brother. I am not sure for how long as it seems like people around here still can't help making things up when they can't argue the facts.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:20 PM (#678296 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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The only one making things up is you acting as if Ziban isn't on the team...he is. And with that being the case no shot we could have Shatt on the team if Stepan was still here. Everyone seems to know that except you.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:20 PM (#678297 - in reply to #678293)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-22 8:14 PM

The truth is the truth. Ziban is also on this team. He does exist, and when you look at the team you have to count him, despite your best efforts to pretend he doesn't exist. So AGAIN no shot we can have Shatt on this team if Stepan was here. That's reality.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

I posted the links do you need to see them again. The truth is we have $7.6m in cap space. The truth is Stepan's cap hit is $6.5m. The truth is we absolutely could have signed Shattenkirk with Stepan here because $6.5m is less than $7.6m. I know you don't understand the math but it is actually quite simple. Open the calculator program on your computer and subtract 6.5 from 7.6, if the number is a positive number that means that Stepan's cap hit fits under the cap space the team has. So yes we can have Shattenkirk on the team if Stepan was here. The numbers don't lie, even if you do.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:21 PM (#678298 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Where is Ziban in your calculations man? Stop lying to everyone and pretending he doesn't exist...he does and is on the team. No shot we'd have Shatt here if we still had Stepan.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:24 PM (#678299 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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Ziban is not under contract so he has no cap hit so he has nothing to do with the current cap space on the team.

If you want to make the argument that Ziban couldn't be retained without moving Stepan or some amount of space clearing up that is valid, it doesn't change the fact that the Stepan trade blew goats but the argument that something needs to be done to get Ziban under contract is correct.

What is a bold faced lie however is that in order to sign Shattenkirk to a contract we needed to move Stepan. That is simply untrue the math doesn't lie.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:25 PM (#678300 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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He is on the team. We all know that. You can pretend he doesn't exist, I won't. Stop lying about Ziban please. Unless you are now saying let him walk and you don't want him here? He is on the team and under our control as an RFA. So stop lying please.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:35 PM (#678303 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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I am not lying about Ziban at all. It is a fact that he has 0 cap hit currently I can provide a link if you need it.

The only one lying is the person who said we traded Stepan for Shattenkirk and the one who said we could not sign Shattenkirk with Stepan on the team. Do you happen to know that person?

We traded Stepan and Raanta for a 1st round pick and DeAngelo nothing else. Suggesting that anything else was part of the deal is lying. The trade was the trade and the trade alone and as a trade it was awful.

You don't get to change the components of the trade in order to create some kind of mythical unicorn that vomits cupcakes and craps rainbows and makes you happy.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:37 PM (#678304 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Will Ziban be on this team...YES. Could we afford to have Shatt here if Stepan is still here when the team is complete (which includes Ziban of course)...NO. Hence you are lying and there is no shot we'd have Shatt here with Stepan still here.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:46 PM (#678307 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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I am not lying at all. You don't get to change the facts to suit your narrative, which I will point out yet again if the deal was such a great deal you wouldn't need to include things that had nothing to do with the trade. Ziban wasn't signed to a contract when we signed Shattenkirk. You don't get to change the order that those things have happened just because they don't fit the story you are trying to weave. Shattenkirk absolutely could have been signed to a contract without moving Stepan the proof is the amount of cap space the team had at the time of the signing vs the amount of cap space required for Stepan's contract. You lied about Shattenkirk being part of the Stepan deal and now you are lying about how much cap space the team had when Shattenkirk was signed. Ziban doesn't count in terms of cap space until he is signed and since Shattenkirk is already signed Stepan's removal was not necessary to make the Shattenkirk signing.

It is very simple logic. I don't expect you to get it since you have changed your argument about 7 or 8 times by now and have never once argued the actual trade other than to say we traded for Shattenkirk.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:48 PM (#678308 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Here are the facts:

When the team is in place (which includes Ziban) no shot we could have Shatt and Stepan. Hence If we didn't deal Stepan no Shatt.

Not really complicated...well maybe to you it is.

Also FACT is:

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:56 PM (#678311 - in reply to #678308)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-22 8:48 PM

Here are the facts:

When the team is in place (which includes Ziban) no shot we could have Shatt and Stepan. Hence If we didn't deal Stepan no Shatt.

Not really complicated...well maybe to you it is.

It isn't complicated because it is not a fact at all. You are taking these things out of order an you don't get to take them out of order. The Shattenkirk signing happened prior to the Ziban signing so to say we couldn't sign Shattenkirk without moving Stepan is a lie. The fact that we currently have more cap space than needed to handle the contract of Stepan is proof of it.

Also FACT is:

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

You know what is a fact is that Shattenkirk was not part of the Stepan trade ANY SINGLE DAY no matter how many times you try to put them together it is lying. Again if this is the way you convince yourself that a crap trade is anything other than a crap trade good for you but you don't get to pass off your lies to everyone else and expect no one to call you out on it.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:57 PM (#678312 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Oh it's absolutely fact. If Stepan was still here no shot Shatt would be here because Ziban will be part of this team of course. Common sense really. Guess you don't understand that though. If Stepan was still here there is no shot we'd sign Shatt. Just the way it is. Everyone knows that except you.

And the fact is here is our summer so far (AWESOME JOB BY GORTON):

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.




Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-22 6:59 PM
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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:10 PM (#678323 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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Keep lying to yourself that there wasn't the cap space to sign Shattenkirk. I know for a fact different as does the whole world. But hey if that makes you feel good you be you. As for awesome summer by Gorton he did one decent thing he signed Shattenkirk and that had nothing to do with him Shattenkirk basically gave himself to the Rangers. The Stepan/Raanta trade was awful and the Pavelec deal was meh at best.

You keep trying to make it into one great big trade but that isn't the way it happened at all. Individual moves should be judged by themselves.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 7:13 PM (#678326 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Not lying at all. When the team is complete, which of course includes Ziban, no shot we'd have Shatt and Stepan both here. Just logic. You don't get it. That's fine.

FACT the team:

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.


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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:22 PM (#678330 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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You keep trying to sign Ziban before Shattenkirk when it didn't happen in that order at all. We didn't need to move Stepan to sign Shattenkirk, we would have needed to move him or something close to sign Ziban but not Shattenkirk.

Either way though it doesn't matter that doesn't make the Stepan trade a good trade. The Stepan trade was Stepan and Raanta for a 1st round pick and DeAngelo. Nothing else no matter how many times you try to add Shattenkirk to the trade.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 7:25 PM (#678331 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Not trying to do anything, just know that Ziban will be signed, and know the range he will be signed in. No shot we could have Shatt and Stepan together knowing that Ziban will be on this team. We all know that except you.

Love what Gorton has done to improve this team, and make it younger. really awesome stuff.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:30 PM (#678332 - in reply to #678278)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-22 7:54 PM

The deal was great, and I applaud Gorton for what he has done this summer. Moving Stepan to sign Shatt was a stroke of genius. Great job by him. No shot we'd have Shatt if Stepan was here still, so awesome stuff.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

You said no shot we'd have Shattenkirk without moving Stepan and that is factually incorrect since we didn't need Stepan's cap space to sign Shattenkirk.

You keep trying to make it about Shattenkirk vs Stepan when it is about Stepan vs Ziban. The problem is that isn't sexy so you are lying instead. I can provide the links with the cap space and the contract again if you are struggling with understanding how Shattenkirk and Stepan fit on the Rangers.

Either way though it is irrelevant to the trade which was not for Shattenkirk.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 7:36 PM (#678335 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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It is absolutely correct. There is simply no way Shatt would be on this team right now if we didn't trade Stepan. That's it. Period end of story. That's reality despite what nonsense you will push. Stop lying about it bro. Ziban was always going to be on this team, we all know that, so no it was not Ziban or Stepan, I rather have Ziban BTW. It was Stepan at 6.5 and his NTC kicking in a week later. No way Shatt is here if that deal isn't moved. Reality.

At least Ziban exists in your world now...LOL.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.




Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-22 7:39 PM
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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:41 PM (#678336 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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I am not lying about anything. We had the cap space to sign Shattenkirk with Stepan on the team. To say that he would not be on the team right now is the lie. Teams go up to the cap during the summer with RFAs unsigned, hell teams go over the cap during the summer with RFAs unsigned it happens all the time. Things get dealt with when they get dealt with. Having Stepan's salary on this team in no way prevented them from signing Shattenkirk. Do you need those links again. Perhaps a calculator app.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-22 7:41 PM (#678337 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Im listening to JT Millers theme song right now...Man in the box by Alice in Chains
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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:42 PM (#678338 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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Unless you can provide a quote from the post where I said Ziban didn't exist I suggest you stop lying about what I am posting.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 7:47 PM (#678339 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Not lying at all. You failed to mention him in your first 30 posts or so...LOL...like he didn't exist.

We don't agree, so let's leave it at that. At the end of the day the team is clearly improved with what was done this summer. That's it. I think we can both agree there. So let's move on now.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:54 PM (#678340 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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There was no need to mention him he isn't under contract so he doesn't count against the team's cap. Do you not know how the cap works at all.

Leave what at what. You don't agree with facts and I agree with facts. I don't have the problem here. I didn't try to pretend the team traded Stepan for Shattenkirk. I didn't try to pretend that there wasn't enough cap space to sign Shattenkirk with Stepan on the team. I didn't make the trade about everything except the actual components of the trade in order to pretend it was a good deal.

I don't agree that we clearly improved by what was done this summer. I think we added a talented offensive defenseman while losing top end depth at center and possibly losing a little bit in the back-up goalie area. We have a long way to go before knowing if Ziban will ever be the player Stepan was much less exceed what he was and we didn't win any Cups with Stepan so he will need to exceed him. We have a goalie with a closing window and a ton of other question marks heading into the season. I pray the team will break even next season i don't see how they have clearly improved.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 7:56 PM (#678341 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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The facts are what I laid out. We wouldn't have Stepan and Shatt on this team together. And the fact that you don't agree we clearly improved this summer is funny. I listed what we have done and it isn't even a discussion really. You want to keep going round and round, let's do it. You don't like to leave it at we don't agree, so let's keep spinning the wheel.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 8:02 PM (#678342 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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The fact is that we have $7.6m in cap space and Stepan's cap hit is $6.5m. Shattenkirk could have been signed without trading Stepan. Those are the facts. The only thing you have done is lie about Shattenkirk being part of the Stepan trade and counting Ziban's nonexistent cap hit.

Yes you listed what we did we added a talented defenseman, while losing top end depth at center and possibly downgrading our back-up goalie situation. There is nothing in that that says clearly improved.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 8:04 PM (#678343 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Yeah, and Ziban will be on this team, so we'll be down to less than 3 mill after we resign him, which was always a given. So the fact is no shot we'd have Shatt here if Stepan wasn't dealt. Pretty clear to see and understand, I thought.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 8:08 PM (#678344 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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It is your belief it is not a fact. What is a fact is we had the space I can provide the numbers to back that up. You can provide absolutely nothing to prove that we wouldn't have Shattenkirk here if Stepan wasn't moved other than your saying so. Your beliefs are not facts.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 8:11 PM (#678345 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Shatt would not be on this team if we didn't deal Stepan. Just the way it is. You can spew nonsense and spin BS all you want. It is pretty obvious that's the case. But continue with your lies and BS.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 8:14 PM (#678346 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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Based on what facts, the fact that we didn't have the cap space to sign him with Stepan here oh wait that's right we did. i am not spinning anything I am just pointing out the fact that $6.5m is less than $7.6m. That isn't spin it is math. That isn't lies it is math. That isn't BS it is math.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 8:19 PM (#678347 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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You can spew whatever you want. The reality is if Stepan was still here Shatt would not be. That simple and OBVIOUS. Just the way it is despite your nonsense. And yes I would much rather have Shatt for this team than Stepan. So awesome job Gorton.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 8:24 PM (#678348 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall



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I am not spewing anything it is called math. Unless you have some proof that we could not sign Shattenkirk with Stepan under contract like say cap numbers that say otherwise, they don't I already looked, then you are doing nothing but trying to pass off belief as fact. The fact is $7.6m is larger than $6.5m.

Of course you would rather have Shattenkirk than Stepan your nut riding ass wasn't even a Rangers fan until Shattenkirk found his way here mister I joined the forum after the Rangers signed my favorite player.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 8:27 PM (#678349 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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It's called common sense and logic. Of course Shatt wouldn't be here if Stepan still was. Pretty clear. Also pretty clear your 7.6 number is nonsense when it doesn't factor in Ziban, who is on the team and will eat up a big chunk of that.

Also pretty obvious that for this team Shatt over Stepan is a no brainer. More funny stuff.

Off Stepan and one-year of Raanta. On 7th pick, DeAngelo, and Shatt. And we signed Pavelec also to replace Raanta.

EVERY SINGLE DAY.



Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-22 8:28 PM
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Rranger
Posted 2017-07-22 10:40 PM (#678353 - in reply to #676879)
Subject: Re: Stepan and Raanta to Yotes for DeAngelo and 7th overall


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Stepan was the Rangers number 1 center, like it or not. He's also usually played against other teams best. Now he's gone and no replacement in sight. People can dream all they want, but reality is the Rangers don't have a center on the roster to go head to head with other teams best. I'm not sad to see him gone, but will repeat again the trade return for he and Raanta was light. Hayes did a bit of the defensive role last year but I have little faith in him against other teams best. Zibanejad will get eaten alive against top opponents.
I am hoping Gorton knows that and is working a Zibanejad and pieces trade for somebody better, because the status quo presents a bleak outlook. The problem is who's available now? Maybe the Rangers are going to have to not get in to deep on a Zibanejad contract and get their ducks in a row to take a run at Taveras, who will go to market. Unless he gets traded to a favoured destination and signed. No way does he stay on the Barclay Center Long Island gong show.
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