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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-09 4:59 AM (#677783 - in reply to #677779)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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concust - 2017-07-08 6:28 PM

Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-08 3:48 PM

I agree we will be a better team next season, even if our point total only goes up marginally.




TBH I don't know if we'll be a better team next season judging by wins or points. Defense has been upgraded but forward group has lost more than they've replaced. We were lucky to put the money in the bank the first half of last season, if we did not start that hot we do not make the playoffs. I think Grabner's scoring comes back to earth, and I don't know that any of the other forwards are going to take a big leap forward to make up for it either. Say what you want about Stepan but that's 55 points that's not going to be replaced by Desharnais and Nieves. Vesey may step up his production a bit (also a good time to point out I was 100% right about his production last year), Hayes and Zbad will probably see small bumps if they can stay healthy, just due to increased ice time. I don't see anyone else taking a big leap forward as far as production. Maybe the addition of Shattenkirk pushes up the production from the blueline - I think that's the hope but we'll have to see if it actually translates. I mean, who comes to the Rangers and scores MORE points than they did previously? Nobody.

I think they need to add another top 9 C/forward as mentioned. Plus you are not factoring in Buch should see a jump in production also. Shatt will make up for a chunk of Stepan's production. I agree about Grabner as mentioned. And I'm also not sure how much their overall point totals rise as they did perform really well early and then had a lot of questionable play the 2nd half of the season as I mentioned.

But even if the point total is similar/only marginally better, I think the team will be better. Their peripheral #'s were not good this past season. I believe they could see only a small bump in points but see the team be a much better team all around, a team much more equipped on paper to do good things in the playoffs.

Who knows what will happen with 3 months left until the season starts, all I can say right now is I am excited. I think with a good final move in the summer this team can be a real good team with a real shot to make a good run in the East.

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concust
Posted 2017-07-09 6:42 AM (#677784 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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The defense is undoubtedly better, especially since we'll have a full season of Smith also. If Holden/Pionk/Bereglazov/DeAngelo/etc can be decent, and Staal can be sheltered, that should improve the defense overall AND give us a bump in goaltending.

We need more forward depth though. Rangers have been fairly healthy the last few years but injuries can and will happen. Right now we have 11F signed, Zibanejad is the 12th, but we need someone to cover Fast's IR and we need a 13th forward at least. Past that it would be good to have another platoon veteran that can play in Hartford but is not going to be a huge question mark, or a disaster if called up. Jensen should get a good look early in the season. I think Nieves will too but he's got almost no NHL experience so that will be a huge question mark. Andersson hasn't even played in NA and is 18 so can't rely on him. Need at least 2 forwards by my count. Wish they would have signed Jokkinen, there's not much left but I might take a one year flyer Korpikoski. He's good for 20 pts a season, defensively responsible, has played bottom-6 pretty much his whole career. Has good speed, would fit the AV system.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-09 6:59 AM (#677785 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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What's funny is I'm not too concerned about F for two reasons:

1. I expect Gorton to add a top 9 before the season starts. BTW...Brooks is a moron but he mentions Bozak in his article today (tied to Holden). I think he'd be a great fit here as a R shot who can win face-offs and score 50 points +/- (a better face-off little less defensive Stepan).

2. You can get forwards. It is much more difficult to get good dmen, and as you point out concust we are no doubt better on D, so that shouldn't be a need next season. And if the response is yeah but it is so hard to get a true # 1 C, my response is we are not getting a true # 1 C so I cannot get worked up over it. Our strength upfront is depth, and if we add a C in the same ball park as Ziban and Hayes (Bozak) we'll be all set with good depth and 3 solid C's again. And even if "worst case" Miller is a C and we add a top 9 winger, I can live with it.

Right now our top 9 is Ziban, Hayes, Miller, Zucc, Nash, Kreider, Buch, Vesey, and Grabner. Would I love to add another top 9 and move Grabner down to the 4th line with Fast (when ready) and Deshar, yes I would (and I expect that to happen as mentioned). But if worst case that was our top 9 to start the season, with a lot of cap space, that isn't bad and is still a pretty deep 9. And then we have space and flexibility to add the C/forward we need in season. I think that would be okay also.

I wouldn't mind taking a flier for the 4th line/depth on Korp. And don't forget we also have Puempel with Boo and Jensen for some depth.






Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-09 7:04 AM
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concust
Posted 2017-07-09 5:39 PM (#677789 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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I completely forgot Puempel existed
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sureshore
Posted 2017-07-10 9:59 AM (#677792 - in reply to #677789)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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concust - 2017-07-09 7:39 PM


I completely forgot Puempel existed


please God no regarding Puempel. If that's an optioned we are doomed for sure.

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robstones
Posted 2017-07-10 10:23 AM (#677793 - in reply to #677792)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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sureshore - 2017-07-10 11:59 AM

concust - 2017-07-09 7:39 PM


I completely forgot Puempel existed


please God no regarding Puempel. If that's an optioned we are doomed for sure.



On the 4th line while Fast gets well? Why?
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sureshore
Posted 2017-07-10 12:53 PM (#677795 - in reply to #677793)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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robstones - 2017-07-10 12:23 PM

sureshore - 2017-07-10 11:59 AM

concust - 2017-07-09 7:39 PM


I completely forgot Puempel existed


please God no regarding Puempel. If that's an optioned we are doomed for sure.



On the 4th line while Fast gets well? Why?


To my eyes I saw nothing in his game that says he deserves to be in the NHL on any line. Would much rather have had Hrivik or Jensen in the lineup when Puempel was used last year. Soft on the puck, no defensive bone in his body, can't make a tape to tape pass ever. Yeah - I'll take my chances with any rookie first
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concust
Posted 2017-07-10 1:29 PM (#677797 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Hrivik is gone, not qualified.

I'd definitely like to get a good look at Jensen before Puempel. Jensen should be NHL-ready, he needs game time to evaluate if he can stick or not. I am not as critical of Puempel, but he is what he is. There's not 20 goals in the guy unless you play 150 games a season. Let's see if Jensen can cut it.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-07-10 3:13 PM (#677802 - in reply to #677797)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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concust - 2017-07-10 3:29 PM


Hrivik is gone, not qualified.

I'd definitely like to get a good look at Jensen before Puempel. Jensen should be NHL-ready, he needs game time to evaluate if he can stick or not. I am not as critical of Puempel, but he is what he is. There's not 20 goals in the guy unless you play 150 games a season. Let's see if Jensen can cut it.


I know he's gone and I know Puempel was resigned. Just was saying that LAST SEASON, I'd have rather seen Hrivik or Jensen before Puempel at any point in the season.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-11 9:06 AM (#677817 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Its out there from Howard Berger that the Leafs are talking to Calgary, Avs and NYR...looking to offload salary for a D man
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-11 9:20 AM (#677818 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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LIKE I SAID...Bozak for Holden and a little sweetener....

If Gorton can pull off a trade like that, I don't see many weaknesses on this team. We'd be in a real good spot to be a threat for a long run.




Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-11 9:22 AM
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concust
Posted 2017-07-11 11:03 AM (#677819 - in reply to #677818)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-11 10:20 AM

LIKE I SAID...Bozak for Holden and a little sweetener....

If Gorton can pull off a trade like that, I don't see many weaknesses on this team. We'd be in a real good spot to be a threat for a long run.




That would be much better but I still see forward depth as a potential issue. Namely the lack of elite-level scoring. Rangers have done it by committee the last couple of years and it doesn't look like this year will be any different. I bet Buchnevich sees a gain in his production, maybe Zbad gets a bump also. Aside from that you will probably have a few guys 50-60 points, a few 40-50, and the rest scattered around the bottom. Rangers haven't had a 70+ point scorer since Gaborik in 2012.

I bring this up because in general, our playoff exit is caused in large part because the scoring dried up. Last year was one step forward in the scoring department and two steps back in defense and goaltending. If Hank can be simply "above average", combined with the expected improvement in the defense, then we're back to square one - the scoring ability of the forward corps.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-11 11:13 AM (#677821 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Maybe try to get JVR...He is younger and also a UFA after this coming Season
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-11 12:52 PM (#677822 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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I don't disagree concust, but if that is the benchmark for us we're bound to be letdown. I don't see us adding an elite level scorer, so we need to have depth to try and overcome that. I think we would have that depth if we added a Bozak type (with a much improved D compared to the past couple of seasons with Stepan in for Bozak).

Kreider-Ziban-Buch
Vesey-Hayes-Nash
Miller-Bozak- Zucc
Grab-Deshar-Fast

McD-Shatt
Skjei-Smith
Staal-DeAngelo-another kid

Those forwards, backed up by the very good and deep puck moving D we now have, and Hank in goal I really think we'd be in a great spot to be a real good team, and have as good a shot as any team to make a long run. Maybe we'd be 2 or 3 in the East, but come playoff time I'd go to battle with this team.

Plus Buch and Vesey are candidates to take jumps up in their 2nd seasons I'd say. They may struggle like Hayes did in his 2nd season, but in theory on paper they should improve.




Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-11 1:35 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-11 12:56 PM (#677823 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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How do you have an unproven in Buch on the top line? and Grabner on the 4th?
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concust
Posted 2017-07-11 1:00 PM (#677824 - in reply to #677823)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Mikey Red - 2017-07-11 1:56 PM

How do you have an unproven in Buch on the top line? and Grabner on the 4th?


I think the point is to illustrate depth... you could easily switch Buch with Nash or Zucc and come to the same conclusion. Also I'd put Miller back with Hayes and Vesey on "Bozak's line", whichever number line you want to call it. It's really about maximizing the chemistry and the talent versus what the numbers of the lines are.

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robstones
Posted 2017-07-11 1:08 PM (#677825 - in reply to #677821)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Mikey Red - 2017-07-11 1:13 PM

Maybe try to get JVR...He is younger and also a UFA after this coming Season


And a Jersey boy Rangers fan
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-11 1:26 PM (#677826 - in reply to #677825)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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robstones - 2017-07-11 1:08 PM

Mikey Red - 2017-07-11 1:13 PM

Maybe try to get JVR...He is younger and also a UFA after this coming Season


And a Jersey boy Rangers fan

Yep ...I dig it
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-11 1:34 PM (#677827 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Exactly concust. No real order there, just guys I threw together to show depth. Mix the lines however you want.

As for JVR, don't see it happening. I think they'd want to keep him and rather let Bozak go, and I would have to think a player of JVR's talent would get a better return. Won't dismiss it if possible, but think Bozak is a much more realistic target. And on the plus side he is great on face-offs, something we need for sure.

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Vua
Posted 2017-07-11 1:42 PM (#677828 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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In one playoff series we scored 14 goals in 6 games and we won. In the other we scored 20 in 6 games and lost. In the final 3 losses we gave up 15 goals and scored 11. Give up 3 goals or less per game and you win 2 of those and the series is over. Sorry but we had a defense problem.

Going back prior years we had trouble scoring, but when you can't get the puck out of your zone, it's hard to score enough.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-11 1:51 PM (#677830 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Henrik was terrible in Rd 2
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-11 2:01 PM (#677832 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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In the Ottawa series D/goaltending was the clear issue. Throughout our run the past 6 years or so O has been a big issue in the playoffs. The past two playoff seasons were more about D though I think. That is why I believe if we added a Bozak type combined with the D we now have, we could be a very dangerous team.

The past two seasons our D has been awful (forwards helping out in their own zone has been subpar as well). We have clearly improved the D. Adding a Bozak type would essentially put the O worst case status quo with last season, and potentially better with Shatt's O on D, and growth of a couple of players.

Get it done Gorton.

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Rranger
Posted 2017-07-11 2:02 PM (#677833 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Defense wins championships.
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concust
Posted 2017-07-11 2:15 PM (#677835 - in reply to #677828)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Vua - 2017-07-11 2:42 PM

Sorry but we had a defense problem.



That is what I said... one step forward in terms of scoring, but two steps back in defense and goaltending.

Previous years yes, Hank was sharper, and the defense was tighter, but we couldn't score worth sh*t. It seemed like we solved one problem and exposed two others.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-11 2:16 PM (#677836 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Henrik sub .500 in Playoffs...but he's "The King"
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-11 2:18 PM (#677837 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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SO let's have two steps forward on D by adding Shatt keeping Smith and having good kids ready to go soon. AND stay status quo on O if we add the Bozak type. Then we have no problems. Nothing to expose anymore. Fixed the D. Kept the O and depth on O similar. Let's win the cup. Hope Hank has another year or two in him at a very good level.



Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-11 2:19 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-11 2:20 PM (#677838 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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If this Sherskin kid is the real deal...I wish he didnt sign a 3 year contract. Henrik is done
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-11 2:30 PM (#677839 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Crazy as it sounds, IF we add a Bozak type you could argue heading into the season Hank's play could be the biggest question mark on the team. I believe in him and think he has a couple more very good years in him, but I don't see how anyone can be 100% confident he will play at a high level next season. I am hopeful, and think he can/will when needed most, but it could be our biggest question mark if we add another F/C like Bozak.

Crazy, but the day had to come.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-11 2:53 PM (#677842 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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2014 SCF ...We had the lead in all 3 games in LA....we lost all 3 ...Sure plenty of factors go into it...but bottom line is he didnt get it done...He is not money
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-07-11 2:58 PM (#677843 - in reply to #677837)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-11 2:18 PM

SO let's have two steps forward on D by adding Shatt keeping Smith and having good kids ready to go soon. AND stay status quo on O if we add the Bozak type. Then we have no problems. Nothing to expose anymore. Fixed the D. Kept the O and depth on O similar. Let's win the cup. Hope Hank has another year or two in him at a very good level.



Nothing to expose anymore:

How about a horrible PP? How about not one physical line out of the four?

I know that some people don't think you need physicality anymore, but that's one of the reasons Ottawa beat us, they were more physical. The Rangers couldn't even finish off a 170 pound one legged man!
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-07-11 3:00 PM (#677844 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Another reason we lost was clearly AV!! Well we still have him, and his coaching will be exposed again!
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-11 3:08 PM (#677845 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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The PP I think we'll be okay. The physical part I agree with you on. We played physical against Montreal. I actually don't think physical play had that much to do with us losing the Ottawa series (we can disagree there). Clearing the front and staying sound in our own end...yes for sure. But we do lack a physical element, cannot deny that.

With that said, I think we'd be set up real nice with that one more move.


Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-11 3:11 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-11 3:13 PM (#677846 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Shatt you edit everything whats up with that?
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2017-07-11 5:17 PM (#677848 - in reply to #677836)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Mikey Red - 2017-07-11 4:16 PM

Henrik sub .500 in Playoffs...but he's "The King"


Of course the Goalie and coach carry the records around with them, and the other players don't. But watching pretty much all of Hanks playoff games, he's carried the Rangers in many more games than where the games loss was his fault. Some will say they only made the playoffs, and gone that deep because of Hank. Hank can't win faceoffs or score on the PP.

For 3 years the Rangers have had the lowest goal output for teams that have made it so far into the playoffs. Had Nash or Richards showed up in a few of those games there the Rangers would've won a Cup or two.








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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2017-07-11 5:25 PM (#677849 - in reply to #677844)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Rangerjunkie - 2017-07-11 5:00 PM

Another reason we lost was clearly AV!! Well we still have him, and his coaching will be exposed again!


I wasn't on the fire AV bus until that last series against Ottawa... horrible - horrible - inexcusable coaching... How many leads did we lose in the final minutes because AV had Steps taking face-offs and Staal and Holden out there?

I'm surprised he hasn't been fired. To get up in front of the podium after a major playoff loss after having a major lead.... and admit you lost track of Smith and Skjei for an entire period... awful! AV doesn't know how to coach a team with a lead.


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