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Latest NYR rumors...
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concust
Posted 2017-07-30 6:54 AM (#678551 - in reply to #678538)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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NTHockey - 2017-07-29 6:27 AM

Over at nhlnumbers.com, Rangers are listed at $74 K over the cap with 2 spots open. Trading Holden gets us $1.65 M cap space, just about enough to add Andersson and Bereglazov. IF Miller is moved to center AND AV will play him there, doesl AV yell loud enough to get his BFF, Tanner Glass, back?


Their numbers are off. They have Vesey at 3.775, he's on an ELC at 925k.

Cap Friendly has more accurate numbers:
https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers

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concust
Posted 2017-07-30 7:10 AM (#678552 - in reply to #678549)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-29 3:45 PM

I'd love to see the team that would deal for Staal and his 5.7 mill cap hit. If he had value he'd be gone already, so I don't buy that one at all (unless we package good pieces with him like a young prospect or a pick). Plus he'd have to okay a trade as well. I don't see him having value. Maybe if we retained some of his cap hit, maybe we could move him then without having to add a good sweetener into the deal. Even then long shot that he'd have to okay.



Agree with your post before this one. You made the point that he'd be a decent defender at $3m. So you retain $2.7m and trade him at value. Or, like you say, you throw in a sweetener (let's say, a second or third round pick or a B+ prospect) and try to trade him with a $3.5 or $4m hit. GMs view players as commodities - each has value at a certain price point, you just have to find that point.

The major benefit to that is you only retain his salary for the length of the contract, not dead space for 8 years. I think if AV uses him properly/shelters him on the third pair, he'll look decent, and his numbers will be a little better and will be a more easily tradeable asset.

As for OKing a trade, I think at some point Staal sees that the choice is he can be a #4 defenseman in Calgary or Edmonton or wherever, versus potentially sitting in the press box/ 7th defenseman here. And the trade option looks a lot more appealing to him. He's making the same amount of money either way, you just have to find the right pressure to put on him to make him do what you want. That's up to AV and Ruff though also, having the balls to bench/scratch him and play some kids so he knows it's not an empty threat.

And dare I say it, dump makes a good point that salary retained/buyout is mitigated by the cost controls of younger defensemen. If Bereglazov/Pionk/Day/Graves/whoever can show they can play, that's a significant cost savings as they're on an ELC. Dead cap space is never ideal but it's not the end of the world.

Either way, we all know Staal isn't going to play out the next 4 years here. The goal right now is the find the best exit plan for him, and options like trading him are only going to get more difficult, so I would definitely explore an avenue to make that work, first. You can buy him out any year, and the later you do the better it is for you. If you can trade out of his contract sooner rather than later then they should definitely do that.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-30 7:28 AM (#678555 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


A part of me thinks if a deal for Staal with us retaining 2.5/3 mill or so was doable I have to think it would be done already, unless the only way it is doable is we add a sweetener that is so much Gorton passes. I also won't pretend to know what Staal thinks in his head. He may be thinking I want to stay here period end of story regardless of 3rd pair minutes or not...who knows.

As with any player there is some deal out there that can be made I am sure, but would Staal agree to it AND is such a big sweetener needed that dealing Staal and retaining 3 mill +/- isn't worth it.

Don't know, but again if that deal was out there why is Gorton waiting? And worst case I'd say Staal is bought out next summer.


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robstones
Posted 2017-07-30 8:36 AM (#678558 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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It always seems like the gms have an order of tasks that they stick to.

pre draft signings and trades
draft
post draft rfas
ufa signings
the zibanejad, kreider, stepan looming arbitration guys
then see what else is left in free agency, and what trades are possible.... who can be invited on try outs.... who has gone undrafted....

I don't think other gms are lighting up the phone lines to take Staal from us... and with other obligations, I doubt Gorton has tried to shop him.... but he could and should come up in trade talks now that they are looking to round out their roster.

Holden will too... but there may be more value in Staal to another GM.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-30 8:55 AM (#678559 - in reply to #678558)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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And when the Rangers hit the ice to start the season...Staal will be out there as one of our Captains...
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-30 9:36 AM (#678560 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


In the right offer anyone can be dealt, but right now I think Holden will be gone by opening night, and Staal starts as the 3rd pair LD. Once again forget cap hit for a moment and focus on play on the ice and I think Staal will do well in that role. At a 5.7 mill cap hit that is awful value, and I'd move him in a second if I could, but simply saying if he's here, okay he will play on the 3rd pair and I do think he can do well in that role.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-30 9:57 AM (#678561 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Its our only hope because you are not moving that albatross contract....Staal should do what Markus Naslund did
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2017-07-30 12:33 PM (#678562 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Make Staal our 7th and have him ride the pine. He'll waive the NMC and demand a trade. Problem solved.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-30 1:47 PM (#678563 - in reply to #678562)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Steady Eddie - 2017-07-30 12:33 PM

Make Staal our 7th and have him ride the pine. He'll waive the NMC and demand a trade. Problem solved.


I like it
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Beezer34
Posted 2017-07-31 1:00 AM (#678565 - in reply to #678562)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Steady Eddie - 2017-07-30 4:33 AM

Make Staal our 7th and have him ride the pine. He'll waive the NMC and demand a trade. Problem solved.



Did we learn NOTHING from Wade Redden..... He will sit and take his pay and smile ... I think there is nothing you can do with him.. I have never been a fan of him .. I liked Girardi more... but he is here until one of two things happens .... we find a way to Gomez him with another GM.....or his contract is up...but remember there are teams that have to spend to the floor.. so maybe one of them will want him... I am hoping here.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 4:50 AM (#678567 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


That sounds great Eddie, but unless you talked to Staal and he said yeah that would get me to waive my NMC AND you spoke to Gorton and he has a trade lined up that he just needs Staal to okay, then they are just words.

We can speculate all we want, but we have no clue if there is a move to make with Staal. My guess is if we retained some cap hit, maybe 2.5/3 mill, there is a deal to make. That's my guess. Then the question becomes does Staal accept that. On that one no one has a clue.

I would also add if this deal was out there and Staal was okay with it, most likely he'd be gone by now, so I have my doubts it can/will happen.

I have wrapped my head around him being our 3rd pair LD when the season starts, and then he gets bought out next summer. For one more season as the 3rd pair LD (make sure you understand that AV) we could do a lot worse I believe.

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Steady Eddie
Posted 2017-07-31 5:59 AM (#678568 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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All I suggested was to bench him. If he cares about the game and getting playing time, he would demand a trade and drop the NMC. Trading him and retaining $2.5 million of his contract is a lot better than a buyout. Staal is not a top 4, but doublemint thought he was. IMO he's not even a top 6. The speed of today's game has exposed him. Having a long reach and a good stick is not enough.



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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 6:07 AM (#678569 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


Yeah, bench him I have no issue with that. All I am saying is doing that doesn't mean he accepts a trade, and it doesn't mean another team is willing to trade for him (retained cap hit or not).

I happen to think he'll be solid as a 3rd pair LD playing in sheltered 3rd pair situations, will AV stick to that, but I can also see someone saying bench him to try and force his hand. I would guess he'll get his shot early as the 3rd pair LD on opening night, but if he struggles he'll get scratched for a kid, and then we'll see what happens.

I would agree though if we retained 2.5/2.85 mill of his cap hit (just realized 2.85 is the max we can retain since it is 50% that can be retained at most) we should be able to find a taker, but who knows.

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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2017-07-31 7:25 AM (#678570 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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I would not be surprised if he waived his NTC already. Brooks knows nothing. Team wouldn't disclose that. I would think he's been told there is a good chance he will sit in the stands or play in the minors this season. I don't see him beating out several young players in the system.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 8:10 AM (#678572 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


He cannot be sent to the minors with a NMC, but he can be scratched. And just because he is told he'll sit doesn't mean he'll accept a trade. And with a cap hit of 2.85 for the next 4-years (the lowest it can be if we retained 50%) it is very possible we'd have to add a solid sweetener for another team to take Staal.

I think the NMC runs through this upcoming season, and then it becomes a modified NTC, so maybe after this upcoming season we can move him. To me this will be his last season as a Ranger. He will be dealt OR bought out next summer for sure.

Contract Notes:

•No Move Clause: 2015-2017
•Modified No Trade: 2018-2020


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NTHockey
Posted 2017-07-31 9:42 AM (#678574 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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While criticism of Staal is warranted, we are not talking about the elephant in the room. Our $7.8 M 20-25 goal scoring, checking forward - Rick Nash. Thankfully (Hopefully?), he's gone at the trade deadline.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 9:50 AM (#678576 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


I am not too concerned about Nash. His contract is up after this coming season, and "worst case" we'll get a huge 7.8 mill opening against the cap. So that is why he isn't being talked about, he is done after one more season.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-31 12:13 PM (#678577 - in reply to #678576)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Nash needs to be moved
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concust
Posted 2017-07-31 1:02 PM (#678579 - in reply to #678576)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-31 10:50 AM

I am not too concerned about Nash. His contract is up after this coming season, and "worst case" we'll get a huge 7.8 mill opening against the cap. So that is why he isn't being talked about, he is done after one more season.



Hypothetical, if Nash wants to come back as a UFA for 3-4 years, $3m per, do you do it?

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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 1:54 PM (#678582 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


Maybe would be my answer. Let's see how this upcoming season goes. Let's see how Nash plays. But today...maybe.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-07-31 4:18 PM (#678584 - in reply to #678577)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Mikey Red - 2017-07-31 2:13 PM

Nash needs to be moved
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-07-31 4:19 PM (#678585 - in reply to #678579)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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concust - 2017-07-31 3:02 PM

Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-31 10:50 AM

I am not too concerned about Nash. His contract is up after this coming season, and "worst case" we'll get a huge 7.8 mill opening against the cap. So that is why he isn't being talked about, he is done after one more season.



Hypothetical, if Nash wants to come back as a UFA for 3-4 years, $3m per, do you do it?




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Beezer34
Posted 2017-07-31 4:50 PM (#678587 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Yes I think keeping a stepan and moving Nash would have been a better move but at the end of the day I am not sure ANYONE is taking that contract on as teams who could use him.. cant afford the hit... and those that can cover the hit dont need him... so there is no real suiter for that player or contract...

Also him at 3M a year would be worth it .. I think he still plays hard and can be tough on nights.. but the near 8 million is over priced.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 5:42 PM (#678589 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


Respectfully I am missing why Nash is really a big topic of discussion. He has one-year left on his deal. He'll play his usual solid 2-way hockey. Score 25 goals. He is a good player, he is simply not a 7.8 mill player. If he was making 4 mill +/- he'd be great value. I am not going to get worked up over a guy who is gone after next season (or resigned to a much lower deal). And if we do stink, as some in here think we may, he can/will be dealt at the trade DL for a solid return as a rental. No downside to me when worst case is we clear 7.8 mill from our cap.

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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-07-31 6:26 PM (#678590 - in reply to #678589)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-31 7:42 PM

Respectfully I am missing why Nash is really a big topic of discussion. He has one-year left on his deal. He'll play his usual solid 2-way hockey. Score 25 goals. He is a good player, he is simply not a 7.8 mill player. If he was making 4 mill +/- he'd be great value. I am not going to get worked up over a guy who is gone after next season (or resigned to a much lower deal). And if we do stink, as some in here think we may, he can/will be dealt at the trade DL for a solid return as a rental. No downside to me when worst case is we clear 7.8 mill from our cap.


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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-31 6:59 PM (#678591 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Lol Lol
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robstones
Posted 2017-07-31 7:16 PM (#678592 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Nash has to put up or shut up. Either he lands a decent contract next year, or he doesn't. It's all going to boil down to his play.

And if The Rangers do tank this year, he'll be a prime target to playoff teams at the deadline.

I, naturally, think both Nash and The Rangers are going to do well. We'll let him walk, and replace him with another Rangers fan turned pro, JVR for a discount deal

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-31 7:39 PM (#678593 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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The Oil won 5 cups in 7 years...We have 1 in the last 75 ish
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-31 8:10 PM (#678594 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


JVR is from SNJ and was a Flyers fan growing up, not a Rangers fan. I do agree with you on your Nash assessment though. Not much to see here with one-year left on his deal.

I also agree we will do well next season. Not the best or winning our division, but we'll be right there for 2nd or 3rd in the Met I'd say.


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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-31 8:37 PM (#678595 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Are you sure Shatt? I believe JVR was a Ranger fan too
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-08-01 4:24 AM (#678607 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


Yes, you guys are correct. He was a Rangers fan growing up. Now go get him next summer and add him to Shatt letting him fulfill his life long dream of playing as a Ranger at MSG.

I have always been a JVR fan. Sure he will be on the radar for us next summer with Nash and Staal gone (buyout or trade). Just have to hope the cap goes up more than 2 mill next year.




Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-08-01 4:26 AM
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2017-08-01 7:04 AM (#678608 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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We trade for Lindberg by November. He will suck on an expansion team. Vegas made a mistake taking him. They would have been much better off taking Holden. They could get more for him in a deal.
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robstones
Posted 2017-08-01 7:47 AM (#678609 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Why will Lindberg suck on an expansion team?
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robstones
Posted 2017-08-01 7:56 AM (#678610 - in reply to #678595)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Mikey Red - 2017-07-31 10:37 PM

Are you sure Shatt? I believe JVR was a Ranger fan too


I have a buddy who use to play with him in high school.... JVR is from Middletown. You gotta go a good hour South or West before you hit Flyers country... There's obviously Devils fans mixed in too, but as you can see at Devils' Home games, it's a good 50/50 ratio up here. Me, JVR, and my buddy Jeff bleed blue

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/news/prospect-profile-james-van-riemsdyk/...



Edited by robstones 2017-08-01 7:57 AM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-01 8:38 AM (#678611 - in reply to #678610)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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robstones - 2017-08-01 7:56 AM

Mikey Red - 2017-07-31 10:37 PM

Are you sure Shatt? I believe JVR was a Ranger fan too


I have a buddy who use to play with him in high school.... JVR is from Middletown. You gotta go a good hour South or West before you hit Flyers country... There's obviously Devils fans mixed in too, but as you can see at Devils' Home games, it's a good 50/50 ratio up here. Me, JVR, and my buddy Jeff bleed blue

https://www.nhl.com/flyers/news/prospect-profile-james-van-riemsdyk/...


Cool! Why not try to get him now? if he will be UFA next year...maybe he can be had
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