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Latest NYR rumors...
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Rranger
Posted 2017-09-26 9:44 PM (#681121 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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I lean towards the $6,000,000 50 point scorer is a step sideways from Stepan who when he's on his game imo is a better player than Duchense who in the overall scheme of his career, seems to have become mister popular based on unrealized potential. We have enough of that already and a coach who doesn't have the greatest record developing players to their full potential.

Besides that if the Rangers over the summer have acquired cap room trading Nash at the deadline and Staal or a Staal buyout I'd rather see them take a swing at John Tavares, assuming he becomes a free agent and I'd be shocked if he reups with the Garth Snow tire spin.

Edited by Rranger 2017-09-26 10:14 PM
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Pierre_Pdare
Posted 2017-09-27 3:01 AM (#681123 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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I m very interested to see how the Tavares story plays out.

If he shows no willingness to sign by the deadline .... thing could get squirrelly in Fishstick land.
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concust
Posted 2017-09-27 6:37 AM (#681127 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Tavares has shown no interest in resigning long term with the Islanders, not because of the money but because their future is completely up in the air. They may very well be homeless soon, and Tavares is smart enough not to shackle himself to that. I don't expect them to get it all together anytime soon either so if I'm a betting man, they'll end up trading him rather than losing him for nothing. It's going to be an absolute circus if that happens.

The Belmont RFP deadline I believe is tomorrow, so we may have a better idea of what's going to happen at that point. If the Islanders can secure their future and Tavares is comfortable with the team direction he can basically demand whatever he wants, and he'll get it. The Islanders know this fully. I think Mike bossy said on a radio show that if they lose Tavares it would set the franchise back 10 years.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-09-27 9:09 AM (#681138 - in reply to #681127)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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concust - 2017-09-27 5:37 AM

Tavares has shown no interest in resigning long term with the Islanders, not because of the money but because their future is completely up in the air. They may very well be homeless soon, and Tavares is smart enough not to shackle himself to that. I don't expect them to get it all together anytime soon either so if I'm a betting man, they'll end up trading him rather than losing him for nothing. It's going to be an absolute circus if that happens.

The Belmont RFP deadline I believe is tomorrow, so we may have a better idea of what's going to happen at that point. If the Islanders can secure their future and Tavares is comfortable with the team direction he can basically demand whatever he wants, and he'll get it. The Islanders know this fully. I think Mike bossy said on a radio show that if they lose Tavares it would set the franchise back 10 years.



The Rangers have to prepare for a Tavares free agency.
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concust
Posted 2017-09-29 2:41 PM (#681271 - in reply to #681138)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Rranger - 2017-09-27 10:09 AM

concust - 2017-09-27 5:37 AM

Tavares has shown no interest in resigning long term with the Islanders, not because of the money but because their future is completely up in the air. They may very well be homeless soon, and Tavares is smart enough not to shackle himself to that. I don't expect them to get it all together anytime soon either so if I'm a betting man, they'll end up trading him rather than losing him for nothing. It's going to be an absolute circus if that happens.

The Belmont RFP deadline I believe is tomorrow, so we may have a better idea of what's going to happen at that point. If the Islanders can secure their future and Tavares is comfortable with the team direction he can basically demand whatever he wants, and he'll get it. The Islanders know this fully. I think Mike bossy said on a radio show that if they lose Tavares it would set the franchise back 10 years.



The Rangers have to prepare for a Tavares free agency.


Is Tavares worth it? I'm not sure. I'm actually a big fan of the player too. He's a legit top line center, something we have been lacking for a while. He's good for 30 goals. His points the last 3 years have been 86, 70, 66. That's a consistent 25 points more than we've had coming from that role in the past. Solid defensively.The Rangers may not have a better solution and will try to remain competitive especially if Nash goes.

Still he's going to be commanding $10m or more, per year for 7 years. True, we can pay for the bulk of that with Nash's almost $8m cap hit, but is $70m really what you want to commit to Tavares? There is reason to believe he's already peaked. Not to say he will not remain productive, but it's unlikely he will hit 86 points (or more) again. This is not a 20 year old McDavid that scored 100. Tavares is probably a 70 point guy for 4 years, and after that... he'll have seasons of 60, 50 points as his career tails off. Is that worth $70m? I'm leaning no.

Also guess who's RFA after this year... Miller, Hayes, Skjei, Vesey. Hayes may have to go just to clear a spot. Even then there's a good possibility another of these guys may have to go to make room for a $10m contract.

It will be an interesting 2018 for sure. We may barely recognize this team in one year.







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concust
Posted 2017-09-29 2:42 PM (#681272 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Also, as expected, the Islanders have submitted an arena proposal to Belmont. They'll take months to decide though. Wonder if it'll happen before the trade deadline?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-29 3:03 PM (#681274 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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The Isles got the shaft a lil bit on the lighthouse project....The day of the votes was when Sandy plowed thru....altho Taxpayers should not ever have to pay for sports teams arenas
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x10003q
Posted 2017-09-29 4:06 PM (#681282 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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I would skip on Taveres. He is entering year 9 at age 27. That is a lot of miles.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-09-29 4:15 PM (#681284 - in reply to #681282)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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x10003q - 2017-09-29 4:06 PM

I would skip on Taveres. He is entering year 9 at age 27. That is a lot of miles.


That's a good point however, how old was Messier and how many years did he play when the Rangers signed him?
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2017-09-29 5:04 PM (#681286 - in reply to #681284)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Rangerjunkie - 2017-09-29 6:15 PM

x10003q - 2017-09-29 4:06 PM

I would skip on Taveres. He is entering year 9 at age 27. That is a lot of miles.


That's a good point however, how old was Messier and how many years did he play when the Rangers signed him?


Was thinking the same thing. Messier came at 31-32 years old, but then again, he was one of the best players ever.

If Taveres goes to the right team, he can have a good 6-7 years left in his tank, and make some teams real legit Cup Contenders.

I don't know if the Rangers are the right team, most of these guys usually come here and die.



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robstones
Posted 2017-09-29 6:46 PM (#681292 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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I wonder how much better Tavares would be perceived, if he was on a team that was worth a damn.....

He is and has been one of the best centers in this league since he's been here.

I'd take him over just about anyone else as a 27 year old.... he's an unreal talent.
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2017-09-30 6:04 AM (#681297 - in reply to #681292)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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robstones - 2017-09-29 8:46 PM

he's an unreal talent.


No he's not.

Not worth big money - long term.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-09-30 7:28 AM (#681301 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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It's been a very long time since the Rangers have had a center with Tavares' talent
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Gravey09
Posted 2017-09-30 7:31 AM (#681302 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Tavares is a top flight center and could play on my as the #1 with the contract. The is an Islander but he is a top talent centetman...no doubt
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-30 7:47 AM (#681304 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Top 5 Centers in the league.... If Tavares isn't on your list, I think you are loco
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-30 8:15 AM (#681305 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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He is a top line guy...but you cant give him 10 million a year for 6-7 years on the back half of his career....Its what we always do... try to buy a team
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2017-09-30 8:29 AM (#681307 - in reply to #681305)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Mikey Red - 2017-09-30 10:15 AM

He is a top line guy...but you cant give him 10 million a year for 6-7 years on the back half of his career....Its what we always do... try to buy a team


This.

No question he's one of the top 5 centers in the league, but for how much longer? A few years... And then we're stuck with a cap hit that hamstrings the team. Go ahead and mortgage the future. Haven't you guys learned anything from our mistakes?

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Vua
Posted 2017-09-30 8:39 AM (#681308 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Not sure you'd get him for $10 million. At the new rate that would be a discount and palatable as long as he doesn't fall off a cliff in 4 years. A top 5 center is now probably worth closer to $12-13 million, especially on the open market. Not that I'm saying give him even the $10 million. I'd have to really think about it first.

Edited by Vua 2017-09-30 8:41 AM
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-30 8:46 AM (#681309 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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If you take Nash and Staal off the books that's 13.5 million.

You can front load the contract to have it make sense.... you don't want to handcuff the team 5 years from now....

But that said, you also have to figure the cap going up in that time frame, too. Oh, and swapping Lundqvists 8.5 million for Shestyorkin's entry level contract will be nice, too....

7 years from now takes him to 34 years old.....

I'm in

Edited by robstones 2017-09-30 8:47 AM
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-09-30 8:51 AM (#681310 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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I think Gorton is a pretty smart guy....I think other teams would outbid him, because he is smart!
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-30 8:53 AM (#681311 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Rick Nash was a monster top line guy once....He is 33 now ...Only way to get rid of Staal is a buyout, unless there is an idiot team out there that will take his contract
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Mandar
Posted 2017-09-30 8:55 AM (#681313 - in reply to #681309)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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robstones - 2017-09-30 10:46 AM

If you take Nash and Staal off the books that's 13.5 million.

You can front load the contract to have it make sense.... you don't want to handcuff the team 5 years from now....

But that said, you also have to figure the cap going up in that time frame, too. Oh, and swapping Lundqvists 8.5 million for Shestyorkin's entry level contract will be nice, too....

7 years from now takes him to 34 years old.....

I'm in

Interesting math.
How are you taking Staal's off? Someone is gonna take his full salary? Or maybe you think they will buy him out, which means we get hit with even more dead cap space. Either way, you aren't clearing 13.5 million.

You can front load all you want, but it's cap hit that matters....not salary. Know the difference.

If I'm using a 10 million cap hit, I'd want it to go to a better option than Taveras.
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x10003q
Posted 2017-09-30 10:31 AM (#681315 - in reply to #681313)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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With a front loaded contract, if Tavares was worth the lower salary amount in later years, the Rangers could get cap relief of the contract average by trading Tavares to a team with cap room. Also, a front loaded contract could help low a payroll team reach the cap lower limit without having to spend the money.

As for signing Tavares, I still think the risk will be too high and the return too low as he ages. Nash came to the Rangers at age 28 and 10 NHL seasons. He has only managed 1 season (out of 5) that was similar to his time in Columbus. Nash has played in 315 regular season games out of a possible 410 and you can see plenty of games when he is out there (to his credit) but not anywhere near 100%. Nash has averaged 39 points in 4 out of his 5 Ranger seasons and has a $7.8 mil cap hit. That sucks when you have to deal with a cap.
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ej17
Posted 2017-09-30 10:58 AM (#681316 - in reply to #681274)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Mikey Red - 2017-09-29 5:03 PM

The Isles got the shaft a lil bit on the lighthouse project....The day of the votes was when Sandy plowed thru....altho Taxpayers should not ever have to pay for sports teams arenas
Wrong the vote was August 1 , Sandy had nothing to do with it, Sandy happened over a year later.. Residents of Nassau County are sick of the spending and corruption that's why it lost


Edited by ej17 2017-09-30 11:03 AM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-30 1:36 PM (#681318 - in reply to #681316)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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ej17 - 2017-09-30 10:58 AM

Mikey Red - 2017-09-29 5:03 PM

The Isles got the shaft a lil bit on the lighthouse project....The day of the votes was when Sandy plowed thru....altho Taxpayers should not ever have to pay for sports teams arenas
Wrong the vote was August 1 , Sandy had nothing to do with it, Sandy happened over a year later.. Residents of Nassau County are sick of the spending and corruption that's why it lost

Maybe it was Irene...I faintly remember a Isles arena vote after a storm or something causing a low turnout. I agree tho that Taxpayers should never have to fund it
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-30 2:31 PM (#681320 - in reply to #681313)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Mandar - 2017-09-30 10:55 AM

robstones - 2017-09-30 10:46 AM

If you take Nash and Staal off the books that's 13.5 million.

You can front load the contract to have it make sense.... you don't want to handcuff the team 5 years from now....

But that said, you also have to figure the cap going up in that time frame, too. Oh, and swapping Lundqvists 8.5 million for Shestyorkin's entry level contract will be nice, too....

7 years from now takes him to 34 years old.....

I'm in

Interesting math.
How are you taking Staal's off? Someone is gonna take his full salary? Or maybe you think they will buy him out, which means we get hit with even more dead cap space. Either way, you aren't clearing 13.5 million.

You can front load all you want, but it's cap hit that matters....not salary. Know the difference.

If I'm using a 10 million cap hit, I'd want it to go to a better option than Taveras.


Staals no move clause switches to a modified no trade after this year..... he gone....

If the contract is front loaded, the cap hit changes for a team if we trade Tavares at the end of it, right?

So we sign him for the 7.... use him for 5, and his last two years he gets what's a good number? 6 million and 5 million? So his cap hit for a team he gets traded to would be 5.5 for the last 2 years instead of 10.... you make the contract moveable.

Thanks for the condescension , though.... I appreciate it
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-30 2:39 PM (#681321 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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As for Nash.... he's going to have his best year as a Ranger this year. Watch.

Contract year.... Healthy and injury free.... all the attention and pressure is on the youth.... Zibanejad... Kreider... Hayes... Miller....

This offense is going to be potent, and Nash will be one of many scorers

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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2017-09-30 4:48 PM (#681322 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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I see Nash doing nothing more than last year. He has lost a ton off of his shot. He no longer can beat goalies from 15-20 feet out without a screen.
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concust
Posted 2017-09-30 5:00 PM (#681323 - in reply to #681304)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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robstones - 2017-09-30 8:47 AM

Top 5 Centers in the league.... If Tavares isn't on your list, I think you are loco


There's easily 5 centers i'd rather have than Tavares. I'd say he's around top 10.
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-30 5:13 PM (#681324 - in reply to #681323)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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concust - 2017-09-30 7:00 PM

robstones - 2017-09-30 8:47 AM

Top 5 Centers in the league.... If Tavares isn't on your list, I think you are loco


There's easily 5 centers i'd rather have than Tavares. I'd say he's around top 10.


Lunacy. The guy is incredible!

If we're going to say Crosby and McDavid are 1 and 2....

Who's better than Tavares of the rest? Anyone you mention is up for debate in my opinion.... and really, just because I hate Crosby as a person, I pick Tavares over him, too....

So other than McJesus, I'd probably say Tavares is my pick for ideal center.

Auston Matthews.... Stamkos.... Malkin.... Backstrom.... Toews.... name em, I like Tavares more
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Vua
Posted 2017-09-30 5:15 PM (#681325 - in reply to #681320)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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robstones - 2017-09-30 2:31 PM

Mandar - 2017-09-30 10:55 AM

robstones - 2017-09-30 10:46 AM

If you take Nash and Staal off the books that's 13.5 million.

You can front load the contract to have it make sense.... you don't want to handcuff the team 5 years from now....

But that said, you also have to figure the cap going up in that time frame, too. Oh, and swapping Lundqvists 8.5 million for Shestyorkin's entry level contract will be nice, too....

7 years from now takes him to 34 years old.....

I'm in

Interesting math.
How are you taking Staal's off? Someone is gonna take his full salary? Or maybe you think they will buy him out, which means we get hit with even more dead cap space. Either way, you aren't clearing 13.5 million.

You can front load all you want, but it's cap hit that matters....not salary. Know the difference.

If I'm using a 10 million cap hit, I'd want it to go to a better option than Taveras.


Staals no move clause switches to a modified no trade after this year..... he gone....

If the contract is front loaded, the cap hit changes for a team if we trade Tavares at the end of it, right?

So we sign him for the 7.... use him for 5, and his last two years he gets what's a good number? 6 million and 5 million? So his cap hit for a team he gets traded to would be 5.5 for the last 2 years instead of 10.... you make the contract moveable.

Thanks for the condescension , though.... I appreciate it


His cap his doesn't change. It's the total value of the contract divided by years regardless of how it's paid.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-30 5:57 PM (#681326 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Just say no to Tavares....If NYR wanted to spend that money better they would have offer sheeted Leon Draisital...Just keep developing young talent and build a team...then add pieces here n there
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Mandar
Posted 2017-09-30 6:32 PM (#681327 - in reply to #681325)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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Vua - 2017-09-30 7:15 PM

robstones - 2017-09-30 2:31 PM

Mandar - 2017-09-30 10:55 AM

robstones - 2017-09-30 10:46 AM

If you take Nash and Staal off the books that's 13.5 million.

You can front load the contract to have it make sense.... you don't want to handcuff the team 5 years from now....

But that said, you also have to figure the cap going up in that time frame, too. Oh, and swapping Lundqvists 8.5 million for Shestyorkin's entry level contract will be nice, too....

7 years from now takes him to 34 years old.....

I'm in

Interesting math.
How are you taking Staal's off? Someone is gonna take his full salary? Or maybe you think they will buy him out, which means we get hit with even more dead cap space. Either way, you aren't clearing 13.5 million.

You can front load all you want, but it's cap hit that matters....not salary. Know the difference.

If I'm using a 10 million cap hit, I'd want it to go to a better option than Taveras.


Staals no move clause switches to a modified no trade after this year..... he gone....

If the contract is front loaded, the cap hit changes for a team if we trade Tavares at the end of it, right?

So we sign him for the 7.... use him for 5, and his last two years he gets what's a good number? 6 million and 5 million? So his cap hit for a team he gets traded to would be 5.5 for the last 2 years instead of 10.... you make the contract moveable.

Thanks for the condescension , though.... I appreciate it


His cap his doesn't change. It's the total value of the contract divided by years regardless of how it's paid.

Thank you Vua. He still doesn't get it....then gets his feelings hurt about condescension.

Staal's no move, no trade, no anything......what team would take him on at that price? He gone? How so Robbie?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-30 7:40 PM (#681328 - in reply to #677153)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...


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I thought condescension was what dripped under your car when the AC is on?
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x10003q
Posted 2017-09-30 7:47 PM (#681330 - in reply to #681325)
Subject: Re: Latest NYR rumors...



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Vua - 2017-09-30 7:15 PM

robstones - 2017-09-30 2:31 PM

Mandar - 2017-09-30 10:55 AM

robstones - 2017-09-30 10:46 AM

If you take Nash and Staal off the books that's 13.5 million.

You can front load the contract to have it make sense.... you don't want to handcuff the team 5 years from now....

But that said, you also have to figure the cap going up in that time frame, too. Oh, and swapping Lundqvists 8.5 million for Shestyorkin's entry level contract will be nice, too....

7 years from now takes him to 34 years old.....

I'm in

Interesting math.
How are you taking Staal's off? Someone is gonna take his full salary? Or maybe you think they will buy him out, which means we get hit with even more dead cap space. Either way, you aren't clearing 13.5 million.

You can front load all you want, but it's cap hit that matters....not salary. Know the difference.

If I'm using a 10 million cap hit, I'd want it to go to a better option than Taveras.


Staals no move clause switches to a modified no trade after this year..... he gone....

If the contract is front loaded, the cap hit changes for a team if we trade Tavares at the end of it, right?

So we sign him for the 7.... use him for 5, and his last two years he gets what's a good number? 6 million and 5 million? So his cap hit for a team he gets traded to would be 5.5 for the last 2 years instead of 10.... you make the contract moveable.

Thanks for the condescension , though.... I appreciate it


His cap his doesn't change. It's the total value of the contract divided by years regardless of how it's paid.


Yes, but the team that he gets traded to at the end of the contract would pay less dollars. There might be teams who think he has value at the lower dollar amounts at the end of his contract.They would still have to have the cap room for the average amount of the contract.
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