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OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 5:06 PM (#678250 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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Right...and how does that factor in ELC's? Is he ahead of Skjei?

I would sign that Smith deal for sure. Again 200 K too much, but always figured it would be low 4's.


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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 5:17 PM (#678254 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



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He is a 5/6 defenseman, not sure where the disconnect is. He played some of the most sheltered minutes of any Detroit defenseman through his career and he played among the lowest ATOI of full time players. He is a guy who deserved the kind of contract Kevin Klein was playing under at most.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 5:20 PM (#678255 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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That's the disconnect. He is not a 5/6 dman. He is a solid 4 dman. So we can agree to disagree on this one and move on. I believe he is a better player than you do. A player that played really well here. And BTW...Detroit offered him 3.5 or so per before they dealt him to us, so he is clearly worth more than Klein.

We can move on from this one.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 5:26 PM (#678259 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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I am going to trust the 280 games he played in the NHL prior vs the 18 games he played as a Ranger when determining what he is. He is a 5/6 defenseman just because the he is a Ranger doesn't change that one bit.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 5:27 PM (#678260 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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He is a solid # 4 dman IMO. So we do not agree. That simple.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 5:35 PM (#678266 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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It isn't that simple you have provided absolutely nothing of substance to show that he is a solid top 4 defenseman. You claim he is one and that is supposed to mean something.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 5:39 PM (#678269 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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How do I prove he is a # 4 dman? How do you prove he is a 5/6 dman? I know it is difficult for you, but not everyone will agree with your opinion...and it is an OPINION. I believe Smith is a solid # 4 dman who adds grit to our D. You disagree...okay I am fine with us disagreeing. You are not apparently.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 5:48 PM (#678275 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



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I can show you ATOI in Detroit from the past 3 seasons. I can show you a usage chart in Detroit showing how he was sheltered last season. I have a pdf with a usage chart from 14-15 which shows similar usage and I would wager if I found one from 15-16 it would show similar usage as well.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 5:51 PM (#678276 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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Just stop. Wonder why Detroit offered him a multi year deal in the mid 3's before they dealt him if he was a 5/6 dman. Nonsense.

Again, we'll disagree which is fine by me.

I view Smith as a slid 4th dman for us and feel real good about a 2nd pair of Skjei/Smith.

You disagree, all good man. Pretty boring world if we all agreed on everything.


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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 5:57 PM (#678280 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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It is not nonsense. In 16-17 he was 5th in ATOI, in 15-16 he was 6th, in 14-15 he was 5th/6th, in 13-14 he was 5th. If he wasn't a 5/6 then why were they giving him 5/6 icetime.

If he wasn't a 5/6 why were the majority of his starts offensive zone starts and against the some of the weaker competition faced.

They would have utilized him differently if he were a different player.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-22 5:58 PM (#678281 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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We want the Cup
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 5:59 PM (#678282 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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If he was a 5/6 why did they offer him multi years in the mid 3's? Did he play well here? Did he form a real solid pair with Skjei?

To me he is a solid 4th dman, and I look forward to seeing the Skjei/Smith pair play next season.

We'll disagree on this one. No issues there. All good.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:07 PM (#678287 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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How do I know why Detroit offered him what they offered him.

He played 18 regular season games here. Sorry but I will judge him by the 280+ he played prior until I see enough of a body of work to change it.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-22 6:09 PM (#678288 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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Lucifer you are correct in that there are too many in here that "retire" jerseys based on hype...
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:12 PM (#678291 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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I read it. Maybe the articles were wrong and maybe they were not. Either way, Smith is a good solid dman who played well here. I absolutely think he will be a solid # 4 dman for us.

We'll disagree on this one. No issues there. All good.


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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:30 PM (#678301 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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You think he is going to be a solid 4 based on what 18 games and the fact that Detroit offered him $3.5m per. Sunshine and rainbows maybe.

It would be nice if he becomes something at 28 that he hasn't been his entire career which is exactly what I said in my initial post, but if people are counting on him being a shoe-in just because we gave him a beefy contract for a 5/6 defenseman they are more likely to be disappointed than not.

People soured on Klein very quickly and that guy was making less than $3m per.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:33 PM (#678302 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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I don't think it is sunshine and rainbows at all. He was solid on Detroit, solid enough for them to offer him a very solid deal, and he was more than solid here. I am confident he will be a solid 4th dman for us, and have no issue with his deal. 200 K too much maybe, but not going to flip over that.

We'll disagree on this one. No issues there. All good.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:39 PM (#678305 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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He was a solid 5/6 in Detroit and he played 18 regular season games as a Ranger.

I don't know where you think that those things allow you to argue with confidence about what he will be against the actual facts of the vast majority of his career. You can certainly hope he will be a solid 4th dman but to be confident about something that has never happened in his career seems pretty nonsensical.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:42 PM (#678306 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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In my opinion he will be a solid 4th dman here, just like he was (and more) during his time here last season through the playoffs. Your opinion differs from that. Sounds good.

We'll disagree on this one. No issues there. All good.



Edited by Shattenkirk NYR 2017-07-22 6:43 PM
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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 6:49 PM (#678309 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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Mine isn't an opinion it is a fact that while on Detroit he was utilized as a 5/6th defenseman. You are pretending we are arguing on equal footing here when that simply is not the case. You are making an argument based on belief while mine is based on his actual career. You don't get to pretend the two are anything approaching equivalent.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 6:55 PM (#678310 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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We are on equal footing for sure. Detroit also offered him a very solid deal. And he played well here during the regular season and playoffs. I expect that to continue in a solid 4th dman role.

We'll disagree on this one. No issues there. All good.

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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:01 PM (#678313 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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Who cares if Detroit offered him a solid deal that doesn't make him a 4th defenseman. Who cares how he played in 30 games when he was a 5/6 in 318 games. This isn't a 25 year old, he is 1 year and a half shy of 30 and is what he is. Could we get lucky and he becomes the odd player who blossoms at 29, sure we could. That isn't based on anything other than hope and wishes certainly not his entire career to this point.
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Vua
Posted 2017-07-22 7:01 PM (#678314 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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Girardi was used as a top pair defenseman here and Staal 2nd pair. What does that tell you?
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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:03 PM (#678315 - in reply to #678314)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



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Vua - 2017-07-22 9:01 PM

Girardi was used as a top pair defenseman here and Staal 2nd pair. What does that tell you?

I am not sure exactly what you are getting at to be honest.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-22 7:03 PM (#678316 - in reply to #678314)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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Vua - 2017-07-22 7:01 PM

Girardi was used as a top pair defenseman here and Staal 2nd pair. What does that tell you?

That we need to trade for Jacob Trouba
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Rranger
Posted 2017-07-22 7:05 PM (#678317 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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Smith has not proven he's any thing more than a regular 5 or 6 filling in at 4 when necessary. I said that when the Rangers got him. Love his bite, but I'm sure double mint is having daily conversations to get that out of his game. Smiths high point was against a physical Montreal and not so much against Ottawa when the track sped up. He's neither fast nor overly quick and as time marches on it will be more and more apparent.
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 7:05 PM (#678318 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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I doubt Detroit offers him a solid deal if they didn't like him. I can also list tons of players in all sports to excel with a change of scenery. Smith did that with us last season during his time here. Will it continue, don't know cannot see the future, but I expect he will be a solid 4th dman for us. We'll see.

We'll disagree on this one. No issues there. All good.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-22 7:06 PM (#678319 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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R ! How's the fishing?
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 7:06 PM (#678320 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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The AV point is a very valid one. He needs to stick with McD/Shatt Skjei/Smith as his top 4. Not sure he will. We'll see.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-22 7:07 PM (#678321 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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Our D is bad...So we had to sign Smitty...We will see this season what he's all about
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-22 7:08 PM (#678322 - in reply to #678320)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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Shattenkirk NYR - 2017-07-22 7:06 PM

The AV point is a very valid one. He needs to stick with McD/Shatt Skjei/Smith as his top 4. Not sure he will. We'll see.


Staal/Holden is top pair...come on ...you know that already!
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Shattenkirk NYR
Posted 2017-07-22 7:10 PM (#678324 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


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Yeah, very possible Red. AV needs to let Ruff run the D.

McD/Girardi and Staal/Holden TO McD/Shatt and Skjei/Smith

YES PLEASE.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-07-22 7:11 PM (#678325 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per


MVP

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Lol yep
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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:15 PM (#678327 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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Holy crap who cares if Detroit liked him. They barely finished above Buffalo for crying out loud. Yeah let's take one of the worst teams in the league's 5/6 defenseman and turn him into a 4 on our team while we are trying to win a Cup what could possibly go wrong there.
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lucifer316
Posted 2017-07-22 7:17 PM (#678328 - in reply to #677194)
Subject: Re: OFFICIAL: NYR sign Brendan Smith, D - 4 years - $4.35M per



Legend

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Ranger fans are like the people in horror movies who inexplicably have never seen a horror movie and don't know to not go in there.
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