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Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO
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robstones
Posted 2017-08-31 7:21 AM (#679727 - in reply to #679724)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Mcphee - 2017-08-31 9:08 AM

concust - 2017-08-31 8:49 AM

I'd really rather not have McDonagh be lighting people up. Hitting is really entertaining but it puts you at great risk for being out of position especially against skilled forwards. Remember how Kasparaitis played? He was a wrecking ball and flew all over the ice. He was also constantly out of position and a terrible regular defenseman because of it.



I understand what you are saying and getting taken out of position isn't good,but how many times do you see players standing in or just outside the Rangers crease digging away at the puck without a finger being placed on them.Put somebody on their ass once in awhile when that is happening.


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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-08-31 8:42 AM (#679729 - in reply to #679720)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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concust - 2017-08-31 8:49 AM

I'd really rather not have McDonagh be lighting people up. Hitting is really entertaining but it puts you at great risk for being out of position especially against skilled forwards. Remember how Kasparaitis played? He was a wrecking ball and flew all over the ice. He was also constantly out of position and a terrible regular defenseman because of it.

If I recall correctly, his style fit perfectly with Piles and Pens.....
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jobat317
Posted 2017-08-31 9:01 AM (#679730 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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I would never call Kaspar a terrible defenseman. Playing that style requires a very good partner to help cover. You would need forwards who you could rely on in order to make those type of hits
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jobat317
Posted 2017-08-31 9:03 AM (#679731 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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He certainly was effective in Pitt and with the Piles. He had a few great seasons here too
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-31 1:03 PM (#679737 - in reply to #679726)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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robstones - 2017-08-31 7:20 AM

concust - 2017-08-31 8:49 AM

I'd really rather not have McDonagh be lighting people up. Hitting is really entertaining but it puts you at great risk for being out of position especially against skilled forwards. Remember how Kasparaitis played? He was a wrecking ball and flew all over the ice. He was also constantly out of position and a terrible regular defenseman because of it.



Clear the front of the net... finish your checks... that's all.

I don't want players to go out of their way to make the hit, but it would be nice if they didn't shy away from it, too....

Get Trouba !
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robstones
Posted 2017-08-31 4:03 PM (#679740 - in reply to #679737)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Mikey Red - 2017-08-31 3:03 PM

robstones - 2017-08-31 7:20 AM

concust - 2017-08-31 8:49 AM

I'd really rather not have McDonagh be lighting people up. Hitting is really entertaining but it puts you at great risk for being out of position especially against skilled forwards. Remember how Kasparaitis played? He was a wrecking ball and flew all over the ice. He was also constantly out of position and a terrible regular defenseman because of it.



Clear the front of the net... finish your checks... that's all.

I don't want players to go out of their way to make the hit, but it would be nice if they didn't shy away from it, too....

Get Trouba !


It's too late...

I wanted Trouba real bad, but we have Shatt now
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-31 5:59 PM (#679745 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Yeah prob ...I hear ya
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Mandar
Posted 2017-08-31 7:22 PM (#679746 - in reply to #679740)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO


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robstones - 2017-08-31 6:03 PM

Mikey Red - 2017-08-31 3:03 PM

robstones - 2017-08-31 7:20 AM

concust - 2017-08-31 8:49 AM

I'd really rather not have McDonagh be lighting people up. Hitting is really entertaining but it puts you at great risk for being out of position especially against skilled forwards. Remember how Kasparaitis played? He was a wrecking ball and flew all over the ice. He was also constantly out of position and a terrible regular defenseman because of it.



Clear the front of the net... finish your checks... that's all.

I don't want players to go out of their way to make the hit, but it would be nice if they didn't shy away from it, too....

Get Trouba !


It's too late...

I wanted Trouba real bad, but we have Shatt now


But...but.....Ekblad

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robstones
Posted 2017-08-31 8:20 PM (#679747 - in reply to #679746)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Mandar - 2017-08-31 9:22 PM

robstones - 2017-08-31 6:03 PM

Mikey Red - 2017-08-31 3:03 PM

robstones - 2017-08-31 7:20 AM

concust - 2017-08-31 8:49 AM

I'd really rather not have McDonagh be lighting people up. Hitting is really entertaining but it puts you at great risk for being out of position especially against skilled forwards. Remember how Kasparaitis played? He was a wrecking ball and flew all over the ice. He was also constantly out of position and a terrible regular defenseman because of it.



Clear the front of the net... finish your checks... that's all.

I don't want players to go out of their way to make the hit, but it would be nice if they didn't shy away from it, too....

Get Trouba !


It's too late...

I wanted Trouba real bad, but we have Shatt now


But...but.....Ekblad



All better than Yandle!
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-08-31 8:24 PM (#679748 - in reply to #679747)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Ekblad and our boy Day share the exceptional status promotion thing in juniors lol
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-01 8:28 PM (#679755 - in reply to #679731)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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jobat317 - 2017-08-31 11:03 AM

He certainly was effective in Pitt and with the Piles. He had a few great seasons here too

Kaspar was just another in a long line of players the Rangers acquired and then misused. Best example was Bobby Holik -- was considered one of the best checking centers at the time, yet Rangers decided he was a first-line center.
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jobat317
Posted 2017-09-02 6:46 AM (#679756 - in reply to #679755)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Mjolnir - 2017-09-01 10:28 PM

jobat317 - 2017-08-31 11:03 AM

He certainly was effective in Pitt and with the Piles. He had a few great seasons here too

Kaspar was just another in a long line of players the Rangers acquired and then misused. Best example was Bobby Holik -- was considered one of the best checking centers at the time, yet Rangers decided he was a first-line center.


I wholeheartedly agree with this statement!!!

That list is long indeed
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Rranger
Posted 2017-09-02 9:12 AM (#679759 - in reply to #679755)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO


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Mjolnir - 2017-09-01 7:28 PM

jobat317 - 2017-08-31 11:03 AM

He certainly was effective in Pitt and with the Piles. He had a few great seasons here too

Kaspar was just another in a long line of players the Rangers acquired and then misused. Best example was Bobby Holik -- was considered one of the best checking centers at the time, yet Rangers decided he was a first-line center.



Kasparitus was another in a long line of players the Rangers never should have acquired.
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concust
Posted 2017-09-03 6:37 AM (#679765 - in reply to #679759)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Rranger - 2017-09-02 10:12 AM

Mjolnir - 2017-09-01 7:28 PM

jobat317 - 2017-08-31 11:03 AM

He certainly was effective in Pitt and with the Piles. He had a few great seasons here too

Kaspar was just another in a long line of players the Rangers acquired and then misused. Best example was Bobby Holik -- was considered one of the best checking centers at the time, yet Rangers decided he was a first-line center.



Kasparitus was another in a long line of players the Rangers never should have acquired.


He was one of my favorites, but I agree. But I will say, the problem is less with the players acquired, and more with the management philosophy of getting them without a plan, and then the coaching philosophy of playing them incorrectly. We endured this for about decade. Say what you want about Neil Smith, especially his post-cup trades, but you could tell he at least had a purpose and a plan in mind, even if the execution didn't work out. Sather floundered for years with no plan, no direction, basically no idea what he was doing. I think he was at that point set in his ways and he figured it would be easy ("If I had the Rangers budget I'd never lose a game" or whatever the quote was). 4 years in and nothing he was doing was right, other GMs would have been fired years ago but he was given slack. He even screwed up the rebuild of 2004. It wasn't until the emergence of Lundqvist and the emergence of mid-level talents like Dubinsky, Girardi, Callahan, that the team started to gel under his "leadership".
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-03 9:52 AM (#679766 - in reply to #679765)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Rangers management never seemed to consider what it was that made those players effective elsewhere. Sather was the guiltiest: he seemed to think he could sign anyone and they would continue as before -- and he would seem to be genuinely perplexed when they failed.

Edited by Mjolnir 2017-09-03 10:07 AM
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concust
Posted 2017-09-03 1:23 PM (#679767 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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The success of the Oilers - Gretz, Mess, Coffey, Kurri, etc etc made him believe that he was god's gift to hockey - a genius mastermind whose only restriction was the small market the Oilers played in. Coming to the Rangers in 2000 was a hell of a wake up call. He struggled for so long because he had no idea how to actually build a team.

He is incredibly lucky for two things - Dolan giving him as much slack as he did, and, Crister Rockstrom pushing to draft a goalie in the 7th round in 2000. If not for these two things his tenure would have been (should have been?) much, much shorter.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-03 2:00 PM (#679768 - in reply to #679767)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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"Should have been" was the correct choice. Dolan wasn't going to fire him any more than he intended to fire Isaiah Thomas.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-09-03 9:16 PM (#679769 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO


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The oilers of Sathers years were a by product of successful drafting, then a maturation process, with some rough bumps along the way, much like the just prior Islander dynasty. And for Sather who started at the top with the Oilers, Coach and GM, he benefited from some astute and lets face it lucky drafting. Coffey, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Tikkanen, Lowe, Fuhr, Semenko, Hunter, Gregg, on and on. It's hard not to fall into the I'm the greatest GM mindset, with that type of drafting success, followed by some very good trade acquisitions, Linesman, Mctavish, Simpson, Ect.
He went through a stint in Edmonton where just about every move he made was a good one. Until the inevitable players raise in pay, and the owners need for cash caused the eventual breakup, before who knows how many more cups the Oilers could have won.
Sather did some smart things in Edmonton, but man did he get dealt a hand.
He blew a lot of Dolan money in his early years in New York and accomplished nothing. Some really bad contracts and over the hill acquisitions. Some terrible coach picks, and a whole lotta nothing til Tortorella got here. His best New York move has been hiring Gord Clarke. That move has pretty much saved his butt.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-04 12:04 AM (#679771 - in reply to #679769)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Rranger - 2017-09-03 11:16 PM
His best New York move has been hiring Gord Clarke. That move has pretty much saved his butt.
Sather wasn't going anywhere. It was evident he had a lifetime contract...as long as the Rangers continued to make the playoffs...which, with the way Gary & The Girly-Men have forced "parity" and watered down the product, is pretty much a lock.
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-04 6:51 AM (#679772 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Sather isn't even gone lol
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-04 7:09 AM (#679773 - in reply to #679769)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Rranger - 2017-09-03 11:16 PM

The oilers of Sathers years were a by product of successful drafting, then a maturation process, with some rough bumps along the way, much like the just prior Islander dynasty. And for Sather who started at the top with the Oilers, Coach and GM, he benefited from some astute and lets face it lucky drafting. Coffey, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Tikkanen, Lowe, Fuhr, Semenko, Hunter, Gregg, on and on. It's hard not to fall into the I'm the greatest GM mindset, with that type of drafting success, followed by some very good trade acquisitions, Linesman, Mctavish, Simpson, Ect.
He went through a stint in Edmonton where just about every move he made was a good one. Until the inevitable players raise in pay, and the owners need for cash caused the eventual breakup, before who knows how many more cups the Oilers could have won.
Sather did some smart things in Edmonton, but man did he get dealt a hand.
He blew a lot of Dolan money in his early years in New York and accomplished nothing. Some really bad contracts and over the hill acquisitions. Some terrible coach picks, and a whole lotta nothing til Tortorella got here. His best New York move has been hiring Gord Clarke. That move has pretty much saved his butt.


Rranger: Was he the GM when those players were drafted?
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Rranger
Posted 2017-09-04 7:34 AM (#679775 - in reply to #679773)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO


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Mjolnir - 2017-09-04 6:09 AM

Rranger - 2017-09-03 11:16 PM

The oilers of Sathers years were a by product of successful drafting, then a maturation process, with some rough bumps along the way, much like the just prior Islander dynasty. And for Sather who started at the top with the Oilers, Coach and GM, he benefited from some astute and lets face it lucky drafting. Coffey, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Tikkanen, Lowe, Fuhr, Semenko, Hunter, Gregg, on and on. It's hard not to fall into the I'm the greatest GM mindset, with that type of drafting success, followed by some very good trade acquisitions, Linesman, Mctavish, Simpson, Ect.
He went through a stint in Edmonton where just about every move he made was a good one. Until the inevitable players raise in pay, and the owners need for cash caused the eventual breakup, before who knows how many more cups the Oilers could have won.
Sather did some smart things in Edmonton, but man did he get dealt a hand.
He blew a lot of Dolan money in his early years in New York and accomplished nothing. Some really bad contracts and over the hill acquisitions. Some terrible coach picks, and a whole lotta nothing til Tortorella got here. His best New York move has been hiring Gord Clarke. That move has pretty much saved his butt.


Rranger: Was he the GM when those players were drafted?




Good call, He started as GM in 1980 the year after Messier and Anderson were drafted. I didn't remember a Larry Gordon as GM that first draft.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-04 8:21 AM (#679776 - in reply to #679775)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Rranger - 2017-09-04 9:34 AM

Mjolnir - 2017-09-04 6:09 AM

Rranger - 2017-09-03 11:16 PM

The oilers of Sathers years were a by product of successful drafting, then a maturation process, with some rough bumps along the way, much like the just prior Islander dynasty. And for Sather who started at the top with the Oilers, Coach and GM, he benefited from some astute and lets face it lucky drafting. Coffey, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Tikkanen, Lowe, Fuhr, Semenko, Hunter, Gregg, on and on. It's hard not to fall into the I'm the greatest GM mindset, with that type of drafting success, followed by some very good trade acquisitions, Linesman, Mctavish, Simpson, Ect.
He went through a stint in Edmonton where just about every move he made was a good one. Until the inevitable players raise in pay, and the owners need for cash caused the eventual breakup, before who knows how many more cups the Oilers could have won.
Sather did some smart things in Edmonton, but man did he get dealt a hand.
He blew a lot of Dolan money in his early years in New York and accomplished nothing. Some really bad contracts and over the hill acquisitions. Some terrible coach picks, and a whole lotta nothing til Tortorella got here. His best New York move has been hiring Gord Clarke. That move has pretty much saved his butt.




Rranger: Was he the GM when those players were drafted?




Good call, He started as GM in 1980 the year after Messier and Anderson were drafted. I didn't remember a Larry Gordon as GM that first draft.


And I believe Gretz was already there...

So he basically lucked into a dynasty....if you think about it, that comment about the NYR budget wasn't so far off....if he'd had as much money available in Edmonton as he had here, it is conceivable...

Edited by Mjolnir 2017-09-04 8:24 AM
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-04 8:42 AM (#679777 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Gretzky was an Edmonton Oiler before the Edmonton Oilers joined the NHL.... Then GM Larry Gordon drafted Lowe, Messier, and Glenn Andersson


Sather drafted Kurri, Coffey, and Fuhr..... and his team won The Cups.....

But Sather also was the one who traded Gretzky to The Kings

Edited by robstones 2017-09-04 8:43 AM
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Mandar
Posted 2017-09-04 9:49 AM (#679778 - in reply to #679777)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO


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robstones - 2017-09-04 10:42 AM

Gretzky was an Edmonton Oiler before the Edmonton Oilers joined the NHL.... Then GM Larry Gordon drafted Lowe, Messier, and Glenn Andersson


Sather drafted Kurri, Coffey, and Fuhr..... and his team won The Cups.....

But Sather also was the one who traded Gretzky to The Kings

Noooooooo.....Pocklington traded Gretzky to the Kings. Sat her wanted nothing to do with that deal.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-04 10:09 AM (#679779 - in reply to #679775)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Rranger - 2017-09-04 9:34 AM

Mjolnir - 2017-09-04 6:09 AM

Rranger - 2017-09-03 11:16 PM

The oilers of Sathers years were a by product of successful drafting, then a maturation process, with some rough bumps along the way, much like the just prior Islander dynasty. And for Sather who started at the top with the Oilers, Coach and GM, he benefited from some astute and lets face it lucky drafting. Coffey, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Tikkanen, Lowe, Fuhr, Semenko, Hunter, Gregg, on and on. It's hard not to fall into the I'm the greatest GM mindset, with that type of drafting success, followed by some very good trade acquisitions, Linesman, Mctavish, Simpson, Ect.
He went through a stint in Edmonton where just about every move he made was a good one. Until the inevitable players raise in pay, and the owners need for cash caused the eventual breakup, before who knows how many more cups the Oilers could have won.
Sather did some smart things in Edmonton, but man did he get dealt a hand.
He blew a lot of Dolan money in his early years in New York and accomplished nothing. Some really bad contracts and over the hill acquisitions. Some terrible coach picks, and a whole lotta nothing til Tortorella got here. His best New York move has been hiring Gord Clarke. That move has pretty much saved his butt.


Rranger: Was he the GM when those players were drafted?




Good call, He started as GM in 1980 the year after Messier and Anderson were drafted. I didn't remember a Larry Gordon as GM that first draft.


I have a friend who's an Oiler addict. He'll know which ones Sather drafted (if any).

Edited by Mjolnir 2017-09-04 10:15 AM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-04 2:09 PM (#679781 - in reply to #679777)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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robstones - 2017-09-04 8:42 AM

Gretzky was an Edmonton Oiler before the Edmonton Oilers joined the NHL.... Then GM Larry Gordon drafted Lowe, Messier, and Glenn Andersson


Sather drafted Kurri, Coffey, and Fuhr..... and his team won The Cups.....

But Sather also was the one who traded Gretzky to The Kings

Pocklington sold Gretzky to the Kings...Unfortunately can't blame Sather for that one
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robstones
Posted 2017-09-04 2:28 PM (#679783 - in reply to #679781)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Mikey Red - 2017-09-04 4:09 PM

robstones - 2017-09-04 8:42 AM

Gretzky was an Edmonton Oiler before the Edmonton Oilers joined the NHL.... Then GM Larry Gordon drafted Lowe, Messier, and Glenn Andersson


Sather drafted Kurri, Coffey, and Fuhr..... and his team won The Cups.....

But Sather also was the one who traded Gretzky to The Kings

Pocklington sold Gretzky to the Kings...Unfortunately can't blame Sather for that one


Slats was the gm, tho right? Or was it the following year?
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Mandar
Posted 2017-09-04 2:34 PM (#679785 - in reply to #679783)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO


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robstones - 2017-09-04 4:28 PM

Mikey Red - 2017-09-04 4:09 PM

robstones - 2017-09-04 8:42 AM

Gretzky was an Edmonton Oiler before the Edmonton Oilers joined the NHL.... Then GM Larry Gordon drafted Lowe, Messier, and Glenn Andersson


Sather drafted Kurri, Coffey, and Fuhr..... and his team won The Cups.....

But Sather also was the one who traded Gretzky to The Kings

Pocklington sold Gretzky to the Kings...Unfortunately can't blame Sather for that one


Slats was the gm, tho right? Or was it the following year?

Slats was the GM, but that deal was completely between Pocklington & McNall.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-04 2:36 PM (#679786 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Here's a short summary of Sather's early draft history -- guess I was wrong about him lucking into a dynasty.

In 1979, his first player draft as GM, Sather selected Mark Messier with the 48th pick in the third round. The Edmonton native remained with the Oilers for all five Cups, winning the Conn Smythe Trophy in 1983-84 and captaining the final championship team in 1989-90.

The 1979 draft also brought defenceman Kevin Lowe (first round) and winger Glenn Anderson (fourth round), two more pieces in the Oilers' championship puzzle.

Sather's draft reputation would grow with his 1980 selections. In the first round, he took Paul Coffey, who would become the NHL's career leading scorer for defencemen with 1,527 points. In the fourth round, he selected an unheralded Finn, Jari Kurri, whose 601 career goals are the most by a foreign-born player. He grabbed goaltender Andy Moog, whose 372 wins rank seventh on the career list, in the seventh round.

Grant Fuhr was taken in the first round of the 1981 draft. He is expected to retire before next season with 403 wins, sixth on the career list.




Edited by Mjolnir 2017-09-04 2:37 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-04 2:53 PM (#679788 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Mcnall turned out to be a very bad person
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-09-04 5:28 PM (#679790 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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On Aug. 9, 1988, the Oilers traded Gretzky, along with Marty McSorley and Mike Krushelnyski, to the Los Angeles Kings for Jimmy Carson, Martin Gelinas, $15 million in cash, and the Kings' first-round draft picks in 1989, 1991 and 1993
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Rranger
Posted 2017-09-04 11:23 PM (#679792 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO


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No sane GM would trade Gretzky at that point in his career. It was 100% Pocklington.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-09-05 2:37 AM (#679799 - in reply to #679792)
Subject: Re: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO



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Rranger - 2017-09-05 1:23 AM

No sane GM would trade Gretzky at that point in his career. It was 100% Pocklington.


Wow -- that's a first ... don't think I've ever heard Slats called sane before.
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naf regnar
Posted 2017-09-05 5:20 AM (#679803 - in reply to #679375)
Subject: RE: Rangers sign Bobby Farnham to PTO


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What turned the Bobby Farnham thread into a Glen Sather history lesson?
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