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The AV Watch - Poll
OptionResults
0 - 5 Games Under .5001 Votes - [2.22%]
6 - 10 Games Under .50016 Votes - [35.56%]
11 - 15 Games Under .5006 Votes - [13.33%]
16 - 20 Games Under .5001 Votes - [2.22%]
21 - 25 Games Under .5003 Votes - [6.67%]
Arniel and/or Ruff become the scapegoats, not AV1 Votes - [2.22%]
Gorton becomes the scapegoat, not AV1 Votes - [2.22%]
Rangers turn it around. All hands safe.16 Votes - [35.56%]
Add your own option:

Rranger
Posted 2017-10-31 4:18 PM (#685598 - in reply to #685592)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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PV29 - 2017-10-31 1:45 PM

Rranger - 2017-10-31 1:07 PM

More coaching moves. Tonights probable lineup. This should fix everything, yup. Dumbo breaks up Grabner. Buch, Nieves and Hayes, Fast, and Vesey. The only two lines with some chemistry. Nobody was good against Montreal so cue the blender.

Chris Kreider, Mika Zibanejad, Pavel Buchnevich
Rick Nash, Kevin Hayes, Mats Zuccarello
Jimmy Vesey, David Desharnais, JT Miller
Michael Grabner, Boo Nieves, Jesper Fast
Ryan McDonagh & Brendan Smith, Steven Kampfer & Marc Staal, Brady Skjei & Kevin Shattenkirk


Typical AV crap. Sometimes you have to let the lines suffer through a bad game, show them video and allow them to react and learn from the bad game. That's how they build chemistry.

You don't pay a guy millions to just have him mix and match lines endlessly hoping to STUMBLE upon the right combination. Any friggin' idiot with a PlayStation and a controller can do that. You pay coaches to use their knowledge, instincts and experience to evaluate players and put them in a position to succeed. Under the heading of "Job Description" for any coach is that phrase in bold. It is here, the most vital aspect of coaching, that AV has failed miserably.

#FireAV






You nailed it he mixes and blends every time they lose. Which lately is often. He has a narcissistic belief his line juggling will fix all. Meanwhile we go into tonight with three new lines and a fourth Zibanejad’s he has broken up how many times going back to last year. No wonder the players have tuned him out. This is a Vancouver Canuck double mint coaching replay.
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Blue404
Posted 2017-10-31 4:23 PM (#685599 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Has Av landed safely in his hometown?
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Blue404
Posted 2017-10-31 4:24 PM (#685600 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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O-6 Should help him get home faster.
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-10-31 8:32 PM (#685897 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Lives to coach another game.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-11-02 8:26 AM (#685943 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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I have confidence Tampa is going to put the boots to the Rangers tonight. When is the last time the Rangers beat a good team? I know Vegas has a good record and deserves credit but they will bottom out. The Rangers have two choices to get this thing back on the rails, one, fire dim wit, two, make significant personnel changes on defense. Changes to the defense personnel won't be easy so, considering their response to double mints teaching and coaching methods, it is best to try a new coach, with a style of play that simplifies the defensive responsibilities, and more so limits the offensive freedoms. They need to get back to a simple game to get their confidence back and some structure. Right now its a shut show back there. Shattenkirk and Smith have some major work ahead of themselves, to give Ranger management a good reason to hang onto them and not move them at the earliest convenience. Both are looking every bit like major signing blunders. Their only salvation is a new voice and philosophy behind the bench. Good work on the outs on both their contracts, Smith any time, and Shattenkirk starting next season. At least Gorton saw the wisdom in contract "outs" if needed.
But you just can't start firing new signees out the door, because they struggle, especially since most of the team is struggling. Double mint is making the finger pointing very easy.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-11-02 8:43 AM (#685945 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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You get a coach who actually has a defensive scheme, you don't have to change the personnel.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-11-02 11:27 AM (#685953 - in reply to #685945)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Mjolnir - 2017-11-02 10:43 AM

You get a coach who actually has a defensive scheme, you don't have to change the personnel.


Agree 100%. Shattenkirk is certainly not a defensive defenseman, that was a given when we went after him. But for him to look this bad, for McD to look as bad as he has and even for Skjei to have been as inconsistent as he has in his own end says more about the system than about the players themselves, imho.

In this system, you're even seeing Staal and Smith deep in the offensive zone far more than you'd ever want either to go given their offensive shortcomings.

The sooner AV's gone, the easier this team will be to watch again.

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Vua
Posted 2017-11-02 11:45 AM (#685956 - in reply to #685945)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Mjolnir - 2017-11-02 8:43 AM

You get a coach who actually has a defensive scheme, you don't have to change the personnel.


This. I'm not ready to throw any of these defensemen under the bus right now. They aren't all terrible but they all look it right now. I didn't know scramble was a system.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-11-02 5:10 PM (#685986 - in reply to #685953)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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sureshore - 2017-11-02 1:27 PM

Mjolnir - 2017-11-02 10:43 AM

You get a coach who actually has a defensive scheme, you don't have to change the personnel.


Agree 100%. Shattenkirk is certainly not a defensive defenseman, that was a given when we went after him. But for him to look this bad, for McD to look as bad as he has and even for Skjei to have been as inconsistent as he has in his own end says more about the system than about the players themselves, imho.

In this system, you're even seeing Staal and Smith deep in the offensive zone far more than you'd ever want either to go given their offensive shortcomings.

The sooner AV's gone, the easier this team will be to watch again.



A friend made an interesting observation about Mcd - he said that McD must be dealing with some kind of minor injury which is the only explanation for him having so many "maintenance days" this early in the season.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-02 5:26 PM (#685988 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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In the words of Rod Stewart, hopefully, "Tonights the night"
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concust
Posted 2017-11-03 3:28 PM (#686343 - in reply to #685986)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Mjolnir - 2017-11-02 6:10 PM

sureshore - 2017-11-02 1:27 PM

Mjolnir - 2017-11-02 10:43 AM

You get a coach who actually has a defensive scheme, you don't have to change the personnel.


Agree 100%. Shattenkirk is certainly not a defensive defenseman, that was a given when we went after him. But for him to look this bad, for McD to look as bad as he has and even for Skjei to have been as inconsistent as he has in his own end says more about the system than about the players themselves, imho.

In this system, you're even seeing Staal and Smith deep in the offensive zone far more than you'd ever want either to go given their offensive shortcomings.

The sooner AV's gone, the easier this team will be to watch again.



A friend made an interesting observation about Mcd - he said that McD must be dealing with some kind of minor injury which is the only explanation for him having so many "maintenance days" this early in the season.


I have noticed this also - he's had 3 so far this season.

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robstones
Posted 2017-11-10 6:56 AM (#687250 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Didn't know where else to put this... but I just noticed a happy little stats.

Rangers are the 3rd highest scoring team in the league.

No one but Tampa (who we beat during this 5 game winning streak, allowing only 1 goal against)

And Toronto

Have more goals than us.
Yes, teams have played fewer games.... but they're on the right track.

Also: Kevin Shattenkirk is 2nd on the team in points behind Zibanejad.... 1 point behind Zibanejad.... and before anyone brings up the usless +/-
Zibanejad also has a worse +/- than Shattenkirk, even though he has more points.... so does Zuccarello, with fewer points.

Smith, is a +2 while Kampfer is a -3...


Edited by robstones 2017-11-10 6:57 AM
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-10 7:42 AM (#687251 - in reply to #687250)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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robstones - 2017-11-10 6:56 AM

Didn't know where else to put this... but I just noticed a happy little stats.

Rangers are the 3rd highest scoring team in the league.

No one but Tampa (who we beat during this 5 game winning streak, allowing only 1 goal against)

And Toronto

Have more goals than us.
Yes, teams have played fewer games.... but they're on the right track.

Also: Kevin Shattenkirk is 2nd on the team in points behind Zibanejad.... 1 point behind Zibanejad.... and before anyone brings up the usless +/-
Zibanejad also has a worse +/- than Shattenkirk, even though he has more points.... so does Zuccarello, with fewer points.

Smith, is a +2 while Kampfer is a -3...


If +/- is useless, why are you pointing it out??
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-10 7:52 AM (#687253 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Kinda funny how when stats go against our "favorite" players, they are called "useless". But, then we will use those same "useless" stats to show how our "favorite" players aren't really that bad!!

Comical
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DaTeL
Posted 2017-11-10 9:51 AM (#687254 - in reply to #687253)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Rangerjunkie - 2017-11-10 3:52 PM

Kinda funny how when stats go against our "favorite" players, they are called "useless". But, then we will use those same "useless" stats to show how our "favorite" players aren't really that bad!!

Comical

You'd be surprised how many posters here consistently criticize the said stat regardless of where they stand in an argument.

One senior resident here -- yes that's you Sammye -- always brings up Marek Malik and his ridiculous +/-.
Which, in turn, "brings" up his blood pressure
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-11-10 12:17 PM (#687255 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Don't start with The Leak and his so-called +30...we all know it was a fraud...all you had to do was watch him.
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robstones
Posted 2017-11-10 12:31 PM (#687256 - in reply to #687251)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Rangerjunkie - 2017-11-10 9:42 AM

robstones - 2017-11-10 6:56 AM

Didn't know where else to put this... but I just noticed a happy little stats.

Rangers are the 3rd highest scoring team in the league.

No one but Tampa (who we beat during this 5 game winning streak, allowing only 1 goal against)

And Toronto

Have more goals than us.
Yes, teams have played fewer games.... but they're on the right track.

Also: Kevin Shattenkirk is 2nd on the team in points behind Zibanejad.... 1 point behind Zibanejad.... and before anyone brings up the usless +/-
Zibanejad also has a worse +/- than Shattenkirk, even though he has more points.... so does Zuccarello, with fewer points.

Smith, is a +2 while Kampfer is a -3...


If +/- is useless, why are you pointing it out??


Because I've seen it used against Shatt on message boards...

I think we can agree that McDonagh hasn't been great on D this year.... but he's somehow among the best on the team in +/-

That would suggest McD has been playing up to par, but my eyes tell me otherwise.

Smith is a +2, and yet he sits.... because he hasn't been good
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-10 1:00 PM (#687257 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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You are absolutely right, The D all together has not been good this year, or even last year. They have played better the last few games, so hopefully it keeps moving in the right direction.

Not defending McD's play this year at all, but, he does play many more minutes than Shatt. There is a reason why Shatt is the ONLY Dman to not play on the PK, and the only Dman who is off the ice for the final 2-3 minutes of a game when protecting the lead.

Shatt has offensive abilities for sure, but don't mistake that for him being a good Dman.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-10 1:02 PM (#687258 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Shatt is also not matched up against top lines, McD is always against the top lines
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DaTeL
Posted 2017-11-10 1:08 PM (#687259 - in reply to #687255)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Mjolnir - 2017-11-10 8:17 PM

Don't start with The Leak and his so-called +30...we all know it was a fraud...all you had to do was watch him.

No argument from me. I know how much you like The Leak and his good buddy Rosy Wall...
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Vua
Posted 2017-11-10 1:31 PM (#687260 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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I guess if your defensive plan when you have a lead is never get the puck out of your own end then I wouldn't play Shatt either.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-11-10 1:51 PM (#687261 - in reply to #687258)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Rangerjunkie - 2017-11-10 3:02 PM

Shatt is also not matched up against top lines, McD is always against the top lines


Shattenkirk (and either McD or Skjei) are always on when we are a goal or 2 down and pull the goalie and get scored on into the empty net. Shows up as a minus on the score sheet and it probably shouldn't (as maybe getting scored on defending against it shouldn't either). If I am caring about plus/minus, I always hated that 'empty net' aspect of it.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-11-10 2:28 PM (#687262 - in reply to #687261)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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sureshore - 2017-11-10 3:51 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2017-11-10 3:02 PM

Shatt is also not matched up against top lines, McD is always against the top lines


Shattenkirk (and either McD or Skjei) are always on when we are a goal or 2 down and pull the goalie and get scored on into the empty net. Shows up as a minus on the score sheet and it probably shouldn't (as maybe getting scored on defending against it shouldn't either). If I am caring about plus/minus, I always hated that 'empty net' aspect of it.


Does it count against them? That would be stupid since the goal doesn't count against a goalie's GAA.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-11-10 3:06 PM (#687263 - in reply to #687262)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Mjolnir - 2017-11-10 4:28 PM

sureshore - 2017-11-10 3:51 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2017-11-10 3:02 PM

Shatt is also not matched up against top lines, McD is always against the top lines


Shattenkirk (and either McD or Skjei) are always on when we are a goal or 2 down and pull the goalie and get scored on into the empty net. Shows up as a minus on the score sheet and it probably shouldn't (as maybe getting scored on defending against it shouldn't either). If I am caring about plus/minus, I always hated that 'empty net' aspect of it.


Does it count against them? That would be stupid since the goal doesn't count against a goalie's GAA.
It sure does.
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-11-10 3:50 PM (#687264 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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The D the last 2 years is really bad, I agree. It is interesting, the D was great, they couldn't score. Now, the D is bad, they can score. I guess if they put the 2 together we would be singing a diff tune, but that's the way it is.

Edited by LeetchyMrRanger 2017-11-10 3:52 PM
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Vua
Posted 2017-11-10 4:17 PM (#687265 - in reply to #687264)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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LeetchyMrRanger - 2017-11-10 3:50 PM

The D the last 2 years is really bad, I agree. It is interesting, the D was great, they couldn't score. Now, the D is bad, they can score. I guess if they put the 2 together we would be singing a diff tune, but that's the way it is.


The D has been bad since AV got here. The first 3 years it was propped up by good goaltending. Just look at shots against, scoring chances, medium danger and high danger scoring chances. The Rangers have been one of the if not the worst the last 4+ years. On the penalty kill they have been the worst. The only difference is good goaltending vs bad goaltending. AV killed the team's defense the moment he arrived.
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robstones
Posted 2017-11-10 4:17 PM (#687266 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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McD is first among skaters averaging 23:10 of ice time
Shattenkirk is second with 21:23


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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-10 5:34 PM (#687267 - in reply to #687261)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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sureshore - 2017-11-10 1:51 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2017-11-10 3:02 PM

Shatt is also not matched up against top lines, McD is always against the top lines


Shattenkirk (and either McD or Skjei) are always on when we are a goal or 2 down and pull the goalie and get scored on into the empty net. Shows up as a minus on the score sheet and it probably shouldn't (as maybe getting scored on defending against it shouldn't either). If I am caring about plus/minus, I always hated that 'empty net' aspect of it.


I agree
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-10 5:37 PM (#687269 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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All I know is if they are on the PK Shatt is not out there

If they are protecting a 1 goal lead with about 3 minutes to go Shatt is not out there.

Need a goal he's out there, have to prevent, he's on the bench
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-10 5:47 PM (#687270 - in reply to #687262)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Mjolnir - 2017-11-10 2:28 PM

sureshore - 2017-11-10 3:51 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2017-11-10 3:02 PM

Shatt is also not matched up against top lines, McD is always against the top lines


Shattenkirk (and either McD or Skjei) are always on when we are a goal or 2 down and pull the goalie and get scored on into the empty net. Shows up as a minus on the score sheet and it probably shouldn't (as maybe getting scored on defending against it shouldn't either). If I am caring about plus/minus, I always hated that 'empty net' aspect of it.


Does it count against them? That would be stupid since the goal doesn't count against a goalie's GAA.


Although I completely agree with you, I don't see how this matters with McD facing top lines, while Shatt doesn't
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-11-11 8:58 AM (#687274 - in reply to #687265)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Vua - 2017-11-10 4:17 PM

LeetchyMrRanger - 2017-11-10 3:50 PM

The D the last 2 years is really bad, I agree. It is interesting, the D was great, they couldn't score. Now, the D is bad, they can score. I guess if they put the 2 together we would be singing a diff tune, but that's the way it is.


The D has been bad since AV got here. The first 3 years it was propped up by good goaltending. Just look at shots against, scoring chances, medium danger and high danger scoring chances. The Rangers have been one of the if not the worst the last 4+ years. On the penalty kill they have been the worst. The only difference is good goaltending vs bad goaltending. AV killed the team's defense the moment he arrived.


That's true, Hank covered up a lot of D-problems & holes. But, now, he is 36 & not getting any younger.
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concust
Posted 2017-11-11 11:38 AM (#687296 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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I don't even understand this argument. What is the premise, that Shattenkirk isn't good defensively?

What does "defensively" even mean? You look a guy like Karlsson, he's not a hitter, he's not crease clearer, but he has gotten better and better, especially in recent years, in a number of "defensive" aspects -

Transition of the puck out of the defensive zone and maintaining team possession (not throwing it off the glass and turning it over)
Skating the puck through the neutral zone to gain an offensive zone entry
Using his skating and puck abilities along with his offensive skill, to keep the puck in the offensive zone

Not one of those things is blocking shots, clearing the crease, winning a board battle, but they all contribute much more to this concept of defense than a Girardi type, even in his prime.

Shattenkirk is no Karlsson but the idea is the same - the defense that Shattenkirk provides is through puck support and possession, rather than shot blocking and crease clearing. That doesn't make it any less defensive, where the idea is to limit shots and keep the puck out of your net. What better way to do that than by offensive zone pressure?

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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2017-11-11 4:08 PM (#687380 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Like it or not, job is pretty safe now.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-11 6:17 PM (#687383 - in reply to #687296)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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concust - 2017-11-11 11:38 AM


I don't even understand this argument. What is the premise, that Shattenkirk isn't good defensively?

What does "defensively" even mean? You look a guy like Karlsson, he's not a hitter, he's not crease clearer, but he has gotten better and better, especially in recent years, in a number of "defensive" aspects -

Transition of the puck out of the defensive zone and maintaining team possession (not throwing it off the glass and turning it over)
Skating the puck through the neutral zone to gain an offensive zone entry
Using his skating and puck abilities along with his offensive skill, to keep the puck in the offensive zone

Not one of those things is blocking shots, clearing the crease, winning a board battle, but they all contribute much more to this concept of defense than a Girardi type, even in his prime.

Shattenkirk is no Karlsson but the idea is the same - the defense that Shattenkirk provides is through puck support and possession, rather than shot blocking and crease clearing. That doesn't make it any less defensive, where the idea is to limit shots and keep the puck out of your net. What better way to do that than by offensive zone pressure?



I agree that the defensive idea is to limit shots and keep the puck out of your net....

This is why Shatt does not play the PK, and why he was off the ice for the final 4 minutes of todays game....
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-11-11 7:22 PM (#687384 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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I don't see Shatt do any of those things you say are part of his defensive play, especially (skating, and puck abilities to keep the puck in the offensive zone) except on the PP.

He has 5 assists at even strength in 18 games, where McD has 9.. Shatt is good on the PP, but thats all as far as I can see, and apparently AV agrees!!

Edited by Rangerjunkie 2017-11-11 7:25 PM
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