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The AV Watch - Poll
OptionResults
0 - 5 Games Under .5001 Votes - [2%]
6 - 10 Games Under .50017 Votes - [34%]
11 - 15 Games Under .5006 Votes - [12%]
16 - 20 Games Under .5001 Votes - [2%]
21 - 25 Games Under .5003 Votes - [6%]
Arniel and/or Ruff become the scapegoats, not AV1 Votes - [2%]
Gorton becomes the scapegoat, not AV3 Votes - [6%]
Rangers turn it around. All hands safe.18 Votes - [36%]
Add your own option:

DaTeL
Posted 2018-02-07 1:46 PM (#695569 - in reply to #695554)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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concust - 2018-02-07 7:27 PM

But we've seen most of these guys for 2+ years now, I think they are pretty much in the range of what they are.

Yeah, we've seen them under AV.

'Nuff said.

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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-07 2:57 PM (#695574 - in reply to #695554)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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concust - 2018-02-07 10:27 AM

If the team overall were better, a lot of the deficiencies would be masked. Everyone would have a few more points, criticisms would be lessened/nonexistent, because the team is winning. But we've seen most of these guys for 2+ years now, I think they are pretty much in the range of what they are. Again I'll give a pass to Buchnevich because he's easily one of the top offensive players on the team, by point production or "fancy stats" and AV will still bury him on the 4th line and not play him in the third. It's infuriating.

Hayes though, we've seen for 3 years, Zbad for 2 years (both injury shortened), Miller we've seen for what seems like forever, although he gets a bit of a pass also because he often gets the same treatment as Buchnevich. Plus he's had to shift to C and I think it's clear he's better at wing. It's the same thing I've been saying about Krieder for a few years now - what you see is what you get. The chances of Kreider breaking out into a 40 goal power forward are not high. Same with Zbad turning into a legit #1, or Hayes giving consistent effort.

Desharnais, I think honestly has been fine, but a contender signs DD as a fourth liner who can fill on the third. He's being asked to do too much as a utility part. He doesn't get talked about in The Purge but I wouldn't be at all surprised if a savvy GM picked him up as a veteran insurance part. He's not coming back to NYR next year anyway.

Fast - a serviceable defensive bottom 6 player. His name doesn't come up either but again I wouldn't be surprised if someone took on the rest of his deal to have a solid young bottom 6 player at a decent price.

My list of "untouchables" at this point is very small. It's a handful at best and they're all young players. Then I have a small group of nostalgia players who I'd miss seeing as Rangers, but if the deal is good, then take it. The rest of them can fill sweaters elsewhere.







The only real difference we have is you might part with a young player now based on performance, where I would rather a young guy got a opportunity under a new coach for some more assessment. I believe there are to many under performing players to start firing Miller, Hayes, Kreider ect out the door. Change coach a little more evaluation and then make the call.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-07 5:53 PM (#695581 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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For the AV supporters like Stumped or Dumped here you go.



https://nypost.com/2018/02/07/the-pros-and-cons-of-moving-forward-wi...

Edited by Rranger 2018-02-07 5:54 PM
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DaTeL
Posted 2018-02-07 10:27 PM (#695813 - in reply to #695581)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Rranger - 2018-02-08 1:53 AM

For the AV supporters like Stumped or Dumped here you go.



https://nypost.com/2018/02/07/the-pros-and-cons-of-moving-forward-wi...

Not that it matters to anyone...but if AV is indeed the Rangers coach next season then I'm not gonna watch very closely.

I mean I am so disgusted by his ways and pussy mentality that I can't even watch the 2017 Road to Winter Classic.
Just because he's in it.

I simply can't stand him. His stubbornness most likely robbed this generation of Rangers teams, Henrik in particular, and the fan base, he robbed us of a Stanley Cup.

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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-07 11:01 PM (#695814 - in reply to #695813)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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DaTeL - 2018-02-07 9:27 PM

Rranger - 2018-02-08 1:53 AM

For the AV supporters like Stumped or Dumped here you go.



https://nypost.com/2018/02/07/the-pros-and-cons-of-moving-forward-wi...

Not that it matters to anyone...but if AV is indeed the Rangers coach next season then I'm not gonna watch very closely.

I mean I am so disgusted by his ways and pussy mentality that I can't even watch the 2017 Road to Winter Classic.
Just because he's in it.

I simply can't stand him. His stubbornness most likely robbed this generation of Rangers teams, Henrik in particular, and the fan base, he robbed us of a Stanley Cup.






I’m inclined to agree. I can’t wait for the door to hit him in the back.
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RANGERNUT
Posted 2018-02-08 3:17 AM (#695817 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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The pros and cons of moving forward without Alain Vigneault
February 7, 2018 | 7:16pm By Larry Brooks

Most of us here know the answer to this quiz by now, here are some quotes from the article.

"It is safe to say that the Rangers coach is not necessarily safe for a sixth season"

"Management or ownership would be derelict not to review the situation"

"Truth be told, even with a lineup marked with deep potholes down the middle and on the blue line, the Rangers have not seemed responsive for long stretches at a time to Vigneault’s particular style"

"There is also reason to question whether Vigneault is the right man to trust with the development of a very young team, given his tendencies to practice tough love on kids while according the benefit of the doubt to veterans, even those who are marginal NHLers." My personal Fav!

"Wednesday’s 6-1 Garden rout by the Bruins marked the depleted, demoralized team’s fourth straight loss and seventh in the past eight games"

"Plus, there must be an inspection of whether Vigneault’s undying belief in whistle-to-whistle, turn-the-other-cheek hockey has created a passive mentality among the Rangers. When Chris Kreider stood up for McDonagh after the captain was run from behind by Steven Stamkos in Tampa Bay in Game 6 of the 2015 conference finals, No. 20 was rebuked by the coach for picking up an additional two minutes. When Brendan Smith stood up for Tony DeAngelo in an imbroglio in L.A. with Trevor Lewis on Jan. 21, he was chastised for picking up a bad penalty"

https://nypost.com/2018/02/07/the-pros-and-cons-of-moving-forward-wi...



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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-02-08 6:48 AM (#695820 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Well...Im up and I don't see anywhere that AV has been fired.
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concust
Posted 2018-02-08 6:59 AM (#695821 - in reply to #695574)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Rranger - 2018-02-07 3:57 PM


The only real difference we have is you might part with a young player now based on performance, where I would rather a young guy got a opportunity under a new coach for some more assessment. I believe there are to many under performing players to start firing Miller, Hayes, Kreider ect out the door. Change coach a little more evaluation and then make the call.


I don't disagree and I'm not advocating for getting rid of all of them, however if you gave me market value for any of those guys I'd be fine with it. In the end they are perfectly serviceable players, I'm just saying that with every passing season the chances for them to "fulfill their potential" decreases exponentially. Miller is probably a solid 40-50 point guy, but I doubt he'll ever crack 60. Same with most of those other guys, they're mid-tier guys. That's fine you need mid-tier guys. But to win you also need elite guys and we need to get them elsewhere.

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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-08 9:13 AM (#695824 - in reply to #695820)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Mikey Red - 2018-02-08 5:48 AM

Well...Im up and I don't see anywhere that AV has been fired.






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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-08 9:20 AM (#695825 - in reply to #695821)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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concust - 2018-02-08 5:59 AM

Rranger - 2018-02-07 3:57 PM


The only real difference we have is you might part with a young player now based on performance, where I would rather a young guy got a opportunity under a new coach for some more assessment. I believe there are to many under performing players to start firing Miller, Hayes, Kreider ect out the door. Change coach a little more evaluation and then make the call.


I don't disagree and I'm not advocating for getting rid of all of them, however if you gave me market value for any of those guys I'd be fine with it. In the end they are perfectly serviceable players, I'm just saying that with every passing season the chances for them to "fulfill their potential" decreases exponentially. Miller is probably a solid 40-50 point guy, but I doubt he'll ever crack 60. Same with most of those other guys, they're mid-tier guys. That's fine you need mid-tier guys. But to win you also need elite guys and we need to get them elsewhere.




In fairness to most there should be a learning curve and accompanying somewhat of a upwards points curve as they mature and gain experience.. Players under chewy peak when they meet him. Stepan is a great example never improved pointwise under Chewy. Like most of the rest. But firing him will shed a different light. And it works both ways some might flourish under a new coach some may not. I'll take my chances on the former.

Edited by Rranger 2018-02-08 10:29 AM
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x10003q
Posted 2018-02-08 10:32 AM (#695837 - in reply to #695825)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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The idea that AV stays just boggles the mind. You cannot trade the whole team. His systems no longer work on this team and no trades or waives are going to change that. He clearly has not changed. AV must be very charming and good at managing upwards.

It is time for a new voice to lead the Rangers.
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DaTeL
Posted 2018-02-08 10:48 AM (#695838 - in reply to #695837)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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x10003q - 2018-02-08 6:32 PM

The idea that AV stays just boggles the mind. You cannot trade the whole team. His systems no longer work on this team and no trades or waives are going to change that. He clearly has not changed. AV must be very charming and good at managing upwards.

It is time for a new voice to lead the Rangers.

It really is flabbergasting...

AV is that type of coach whose instinct will always lead him to preferring vets over kids. He just isn't the right coach for the kids.
Now I'm not a hockey genius but if we sell out, we are not getting vets back, right?
It's gonna be picks and prospects, right?

So how the heck does this mix and match?

Flabbergasting... (is that a word?)
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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-08 11:43 AM (#695843 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Well I just watched the press conference. A.V. is a good coach was the message.
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Fish
Posted 2018-02-08 12:12 PM (#695848 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Yeah, I think he's gone at the end of the year. Not much point changing it up now unless you have a great candidate who is available...let him finish the season and start a new season with a new coach
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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-08 12:19 PM (#695849 - in reply to #695848)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Fish - 2018-02-08 11:12 AM

Yeah, I think he's gone at the end of the year. Not much point changing it up now unless you have a great candidate who is available...let him finish the season and start a new season with a new coach






I agree, I think the draft possibilities improve every day he remains. He blew chewys horn in full support, like he should. Hopefully it was just the traditional we love the coach before the firing press conference.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-02-08 12:50 PM (#695852 - in reply to #695837)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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x10003q - 2018-02-08 12:32 PM

The idea that AV stays just boggles the mind. You cannot trade the whole team. His systems no longer work on this team and no trades or waives are going to change that. He clearly has not changed. AV must be very charming and good at managing upwards.

It is time for a new voice to lead the Rangers.
His systems didn't work all that well in Vancouver either....I recall some Nucks fans warning us abouty him....oddly enough, what's happening here is exactly what happened there.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-02-08 12:53 PM (#695853 - in reply to #695821)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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concust - 2018-02-08 8:59 AM

Rranger - 2018-02-07 3:57 PM


The only real difference we have is you might part with a young player now based on performance, where I would rather a young guy got a opportunity under a new coach for some more assessment. I believe there are to many under performing players to start firing Miller, Hayes, Kreider ect out the door. Change coach a little more evaluation and then make the call.


I don't disagree and I'm not advocating for getting rid of all of them, however if you gave me market value for any of those guys I'd be fine with it. In the end they are perfectly serviceable players, I'm just saying that with every passing season the chances for them to "fulfill their potential" decreases exponentially. Miller is probably a solid 40-50 point guy, but I doubt he'll ever crack 60. Same with most of those other guys, they're mid-tier guys. That's fine you need mid-tier guys. But to win you also need elite guys and we need to get them elsewhere.

Let's hope we don't continue the pattern of getting these elite players long after their usefulness.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-08 1:14 PM (#695856 - in reply to #695853)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Mjolnir - 2018-02-08 11:53 AM

concust - 2018-02-08 8:59 AM

Rranger - 2018-02-07 3:57 PM


The only real difference we have is you might part with a young player now based on performance, where I would rather a young guy got a opportunity under a new coach for some more assessment. I believe there are to many under performing players to start firing Miller, Hayes, Kreider ect out the door. Change coach a little more evaluation and then make the call.


I don't disagree and I'm not advocating for getting rid of all of them, however if you gave me market value for any of those guys I'd be fine with it. In the end they are perfectly serviceable players, I'm just saying that with every passing season the chances for them to "fulfill their potential" decreases exponentially. Miller is probably a solid 40-50 point guy, but I doubt he'll ever crack 60. Same with most of those other guys, they're mid-tier guys. That's fine you need mid-tier guys. But to win you also need elite guys and we need to get them elsewhere.

Let's hope we don't continue the pattern of getting these elite players long after their usefulness.






Like Ilya Kovalchuk rumoured interested in joining the Rangers.
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Fish
Posted 2018-02-08 1:46 PM (#695857 - in reply to #695852)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Mjolnir - 2018-02-08 11:50 AM

x10003q - 2018-02-08 12:32 PM

The idea that AV stays just boggles the mind. You cannot trade the whole team. His systems no longer work on this team and no trades or waives are going to change that. He clearly has not changed. AV must be very charming and good at managing upwards.

It is time for a new voice to lead the Rangers.
His systems didn't work all that well in Vancouver either....I recall some Nucks fans warning us abouty him....oddly enough, what's happening here is exactly what happened there.


I think every coach nowadays has a shelf life. There's only so much newness a coach can bring, and once he and the personnel have been figured out by the 100s of analysts on the teams around the league, they're pretty much done.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-08 4:19 PM (#695871 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Latest sportsnet buzz is J.T. Miller’s name is all over the place. Keep chewy and trade Miller sounds like something the Rangers would do.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-02-08 4:29 PM (#695872 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Neil Smith is on NHL network now basically saying the Rangers shouldnt do this...How did get our GM job? He is a total moron.....He is the guy that blew up what we are trying to acquire
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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-08 4:34 PM (#695873 - in reply to #695872)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Mikey Red - 2018-02-08 3:29 PM

Neil Smith is on NHL network now basically saying the Rangers shouldnt do this...How did get our GM job? He is a total moron.....He is the guy that blew up what we are trying to acquire





Smith probably has had wrist replacement surgery after wearing it out writing Cheques. That was his only skill.

Edited by Rranger 2018-02-08 4:35 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-02-08 4:43 PM (#695875 - in reply to #695873)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Rranger - 2018-02-08 6:34 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-02-08 3:29 PM

Neil Smith is on NHL network now basically saying the Rangers shouldnt do this...How did get our GM job? He is a total moron.....He is the guy that blew up what we are trying to acquire





Smith probably has had wrist replacement surgery after wearing it out writing Cheques. That was his only skill.

Lol I still hate him
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robstones
Posted 2018-02-08 7:00 PM (#695881 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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I can understand having anyone available mentality, but I would like to have an idea of a "core" to build around.

Chytil and Andersson can be included in that core...

But to me Miller, Kreider, Hayes, Vesey, Buchnevich, Zibanejad, Skjei, Shattenkirk, and Fast

Should all still be Rangers next year.

Lundqvist and Zuccarello, too.

Get your first round picksfor Nash, McDonagh, and Grabner.
Get your 2nd or 3rd rounder for Holden.
Get some depth defenseman for Deshernais or whatever

Sign your pick of UFA's in The Summer is an option.... JVR is my pick....

And you go from there.

Maybe Rangers become players for Tavares??? But I think they can ice a contender next year AND build for the future....
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DaTeL
Posted 2018-02-09 8:21 AM (#695891 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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If you're blowing things up then, at least to me, you should have a vision of what team you're building.
To that end it might be a solid idea to already have a coach willing and ABLE to lead the new team to success.

Knowing the Rangers brass, I don't think they're following even remotely similar process.
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DaTeL
Posted 2018-02-09 8:35 AM (#695892 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Btw like I said before, I don't subscribe to blowing it all up.
I'd trade a few assets that make sense.
But before I trade the rest I'd first bring in a coach who doesn't have a chewing gum for a brain...

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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-09 4:24 PM (#695929 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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This doesn’t surprise me coming from the village idiot. Nice throw of Lundqvist under the bus. At least we now know what the problem is. The guy gets dumber every time he opens his pie hole.

https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/alain-vigneault-on-wanting-to-win-ev...

Edited by Rranger 2018-02-09 4:25 PM
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Vua
Posted 2018-02-09 4:32 PM (#695934 - in reply to #695929)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Rranger - 2018-02-09 4:24 PM

This doesn’t surprise me coming from the village idiot. Nice throw of Lundqvist under the bus. At least we now know what the problem is. The guy gets dumber every time he opens his pie hole.

https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/alain-vigneault-on-wanting-to-win-ev...


I guess he just expects the goalie to save him. We've been the worst defensive team in the league since he's been here but it's the goalies.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-09 8:21 PM (#696244 - in reply to #695934)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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Vua - 2018-02-09 3:32 PM

Rranger - 2018-02-09 4:24 PM

This doesn’t surprise me coming from the village idiot. Nice throw of Lundqvist under the bus. At least we now know what the problem is. The guy gets dumber every time he opens his pie hole.

https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/alain-vigneault-on-wanting-to-win-ev...


I guess he just expects the goalie to save him. We've been the worst defensive team in the league since he's been here but it's the goalies.





Hank doesn't deserve that. Thats a calculated speech by Chewys who's on his last legs. To get Hank to put the team on his back. But with Chewy coaching not even three Hanks can carry Chewys mess.
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DaTeL
Posted 2018-02-09 11:09 PM (#696245 - in reply to #695929)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Rranger - 2018-02-10 12:24 AM

This doesn’t surprise me coming from the village idiot. Nice throw of Lundqvist under the bus. At least we now know what the problem is. The guy gets dumber every time he opens his pie hole.

https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/alain-vigneault-on-wanting-to-win-ev...

Wow...if this is his way of motivating players, I'm not at all surprised the team tuned him out long time ago.

What a focking @sshole.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-02-10 6:51 AM (#696247 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Gorton and Sather have a press conference saying we are going to rebuild......AV has an interview where he says even tho we have had bad goaltending.... we can still make the playoffs....Fire this idiot already
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Rranger
Posted 2018-02-10 9:22 AM (#696248 - in reply to #696245)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll


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DaTeL - 2018-02-09 10:09 PM

Rranger - 2018-02-10 12:24 AM

This doesn’t surprise me coming from the village idiot. Nice throw of Lundqvist under the bus. At least we now know what the problem is. The guy gets dumber every time he opens his pie hole.

https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/alain-vigneault-on-wanting-to-win-ev...

Wow...if this is his way of motivating players, I'm not at all surprised the team tuned him out long time ago.

What a focking @sshole.





Agreed. this type of calculated last gasp at firing the team up, will flame out quickly. Never once in this entire mess has the Coach stepped up and taken his fair share of the blame its always him doing everything right and the players not responding. Fire chewy.
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x10003q
Posted 2018-02-10 10:05 AM (#696250 - in reply to #696248)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Rranger - 2018-02-10 11:22 AM

DaTeL - 2018-02-09 10:09 PM

Rranger - 2018-02-10 12:24 AM

This doesn’t surprise me coming from the village idiot. Nice throw of Lundqvist under the bus. At least we now know what the problem is. The guy gets dumber every time he opens his pie hole.

https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/alain-vigneault-on-wanting-to-win-ev...

Wow...if this is his way of motivating players, I'm not at all surprised the team tuned him out long time ago.

What a focking @sshole.





Agreed. this type of calculated last gasp at firing the team up, will flame out quickly. Never once in this entire mess has the Coach stepped up and taken his fair share of the blame its always him doing everything right and the players not responding. Fire chewy.


and fire fycking Sather. This old coot needs to be put out to pasture. Ultimately - he is the reason for the inability to win the cup.
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Beezer34
Posted 2018-02-12 10:59 PM (#696478 - in reply to #683557)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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I have never been an AV fan on any of the teams or even the Rangers.. BUT I do not think he is the problem. This team was screwed when they revamped the D into a pile of crap.... buying out Girardi long in the tooth but still plays well.. ask Tampa.... then you resign Smith who I never thought was that good.. certainly not 4 plus mil... then sign ****tenkirk who is a one dimensional y player AT BEST for 8 MILLION.. wow... add to this Klein leaving and you have a revamp which was never going to help a hall of fame goalie in the twilight of his career. As goalies that older they need more.. not less help... You also take Stepan a two-way player and remove him and you get worse D.. and you then also move up sophomore Skeji to more minutes and you have 3 D who are hopeless in their own end... McDonough who is trying to do too much.. holden who has been decent .. and a bunch of retreads.... so really the D's death this year is a major factor in the situation they face. Then your big offensive resigning got injured and Kreider has been out and there have been a heap of injuries all at the same time.... so AV is where you would expect him to be.

Changing the coach this year is a waste... a new coach is not going to make these guys better.. and I am not sure what system you can devise that will make ****tenkirk a top or even second pairing D man... he spends more time looking for a pretzel vendor than the play in his own zone.. Trotz last year moved him to the third pairing and top PP unit.. which is where he should be.. Skeji is a decent player but he is Boyle/MDZ 2.0... but he might be able to learn... then you have Holden gone... and Smith on waivers in the minors.. this team is in trouble and a new coach does not change the poor personnel on the ice.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-02-13 6:54 AM (#696482 - in reply to #696478)
Subject: Re: The AV Watch - Poll



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Beezer, the only problem I have with your post is your post is the fact that even if the players you mentioned had remained (Girardi, Klein), the Rangers D would have been no better than they are now. While SOME of the blame can be laid at the feet of the players, the real blame has to fall on AV's shoulders. It's HIS system that they are being forced to play (which is precisely what prompted his exit). I still don't agree on Smith, but I'll with you 100% about Sh!ttykirk.

Edit -- I meant to say "(which is precisely what prompted Girardi's exit).

Edited by Mjolnir 2018-02-13 12:22 PM
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