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Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2017-10-23 8:14 PM (#684843 - in reply to #684841)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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We need a long 10 game road trip... we suck in MSG.


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Blue404
Posted 2017-10-23 8:19 PM (#684844 - in reply to #684842)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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Mikey Red - 2017-10-23 10:14 PM

The MSG hockey show is terrible....bad television
Too pink in my opinion and not to be mistaken with Pink fights cancer! Support the fight!

Now those analysts are really sugering.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-23 8:19 PM (#684845 - in reply to #684836)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-23 7:06 PM

I honestly don’t understand the obsession with replacing AV? Just approaching it logically, he’s not on the ice or really responsible for motivating an nhl team to play in NHL games. There are plenty of other leagues to half-ass it in an get paid. They’re just not a good team. They had a unique mix with Stepan, and I think it’s showing that his absence is (at least particularly ) responsible for this start. Gorton has done nothing to upgrade the team, and if you’re looking to crucify someone, it’s he and Sather.






You can’t believe a NHL coach is not “really responsible for motivating a NHL team”.? Are you saying that?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-10-23 8:21 PM (#684846 - in reply to #684844)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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Blue404 - 2017-10-23 8:19 PM

Mikey Red - 2017-10-23 10:14 PM

The MSG hockey show is terrible....bad television
Too pink in my opinion and not to be mistaken with Pink fights cancer! Support the fight!

Now those analysts are really sugering.

Very Pink....They were all about LGBT stuff last year....instant channel changer
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Spider3WideBanana
Posted 2017-10-24 12:44 AM (#684849 - in reply to #684845)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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Rranger - 2017-10-23 8:19 PM

Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-23 7:06 PM

I honestly don’t understand the obsession with replacing AV? Just approaching it logically, he’s not on the ice or really responsible for motivating an nhl team to play in NHL games. There are plenty of other leagues to half-ass it in an get paid. They’re just not a good team. They had a unique mix with Stepan, and I think it’s showing that his absence is (at least particularly ) responsible for this start. Gorton has done nothing to upgrade the team, and if you’re looking to crucify someone, it’s he and Sather.






You can’t believe a NHL coach is not “really responsible for motivating a NHL team”.? Are you saying that?


If you want to question his Xs and Os, so be it, but at this level, a team that’s sucking 1/8th of the way into the season doesn’t need a cheerleader, they are pro’s and should figure it out. That is why you have a Captain and leaders in the room. AV set a tenor for the season, so none of us know exactly what that was, but it seemed upbeat and good goals set. His job is the maximize the talent within a team concept, so if you want to criticize that.... that’s fine, but it’s not his job to be a Rahh-rahh Guy..... this isn’t college hockey .
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Proxomat
Posted 2017-10-24 1:07 AM (#684850 - in reply to #684541)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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This will be a great season. Don't be pessimistic. Enjoy the losses.
Honestly, do the Rangers still got their 1st round 2018 pick ?
May, they'll win the draft lottery ;-).
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sureshore
Posted 2017-10-24 6:38 AM (#684851 - in reply to #684849)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-24 2:44 AM

Rranger - 2017-10-23 8:19 PM

Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-23 7:06 PM

I honestly don’t understand the obsession with replacing AV? Just approaching it logically, he’s not on the ice or really responsible for motivating an nhl team to play in NHL games. There are plenty of other leagues to half-ass it in an get paid. They’re just not a good team. They had a unique mix with Stepan, and I think it’s showing that his absence is (at least particularly ) responsible for this start. Gorton has done nothing to upgrade the team, and if you’re looking to crucify someone, it’s he and Sather.






You can’t believe a NHL coach is not “really responsible for motivating a NHL team”.? Are you saying that?


If you want to question his Xs and Os, so be it, but at this level, a team that’s sucking 1/8th of the way into the season doesn’t need a cheerleader, they are pro’s and should figure it out. That is why you have a Captain and leaders in the room. AV set a tenor for the season, so none of us know exactly what that was, but it seemed upbeat and good goals set. His job is the maximize the talent within a team concept, so if you want to criticize that.... that’s fine, but it’s not his job to be a Rahh-rahh Guy..... this isn’t college hockey .


No one's asking him to be a rah-rah guy, but coaches lose teams and they lose them based on their actions, not their motivation techniques. The facts are that he demoted a rookie player after about 10 minutes of hockey; that he's playing a little munchkin 2nd line minutes at center when there's nothing in his resume to say he's capable: that he puts that same munchkin on the PP above some other far more capable candidates; that he dresses 7 defensemen for several games of the season when that is clearly a move only to be used when either injuries occur or panic sets in (so which is it?); that he takes one of his most skilled players off of the only line that's clicking offensively and puts him in a 4th line role; that this early in the season he has forwards playing 20+ minutes and others 7 or 8 minutes on a regular basis. I could go on and on - let me know if you want me to, by the way - but there's more than enough reason for this guy to be gone yesterday
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Mikey Red
Posted 2017-10-24 6:58 AM (#684852 - in reply to #684851)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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After last nights game, our heroes are up to 10 games played. 1st team to reach 10. The whole league has games in hand on us. LGR
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Vua
Posted 2017-10-24 7:08 AM (#684853 - in reply to #684849)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-24 12:44 AM

Rranger - 2017-10-23 8:19 PM

Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-23 7:06 PM

I honestly don’t understand the obsession with replacing AV? Just approaching it logically, he’s not on the ice or really responsible for motivating an nhl team to play in NHL games. There are plenty of other leagues to half-ass it in an get paid. They’re just not a good team. They had a unique mix with Stepan, and I think it’s showing that his absence is (at least particularly ) responsible for this start. Gorton has done nothing to upgrade the team, and if you’re looking to crucify someone, it’s he and Sather.






You can’t believe a NHL coach is not “really responsible for motivating a NHL team”.? Are you saying that?


If you want to question his Xs and Os, so be it, but at this level, a team that’s sucking 1/8th of the way into the season doesn’t need a cheerleader, they are pro’s and should figure it out. That is why you have a Captain and leaders in the room. AV set a tenor for the season, so none of us know exactly what that was, but it seemed upbeat and good goals set. His job is the maximize the talent within a team concept, so if you want to criticize that.... that’s fine, but it’s not his job to be a Rahh-rahh Guy..... this isn’t college hockey .


Have you watched professional sports before? Even in the NBA they need coaching to win unless you have an absolutely stud team. And if that stud team doesn't buy in they are getting another coach. Professional sports is all about mediocrity today and your coach can make or break you. Sorry but ours is trash.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-24 8:01 AM (#684854 - in reply to #684849)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-23 11:44 PM

Rranger - 2017-10-23 8:19 PM

Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-23 7:06 PM

I honestly don’t understand the obsession with replacing AV? Just approaching it logically, he’s not on the ice or really responsible for motivating an nhl team to play in NHL games. There are plenty of other leagues to half-ass it in an get paid. They’re just not a good team. They had a unique mix with Stepan, and I think it’s showing that his absence is (at least particularly ) responsible for this start. Gorton has done nothing to upgrade the team, and if you’re looking to crucify someone, it’s he and Sather.






You can’t believe a NHL coach is not “really responsible for motivating a NHL team”.? Are you saying that?


If you want to question his Xs and Os, so be it, but at this level, a team that’s sucking 1/8th of the way into the season doesn’t need a cheerleader, they are pro’s and should figure it out. That is why you have a Captain and leaders in the room. AV set a tenor for the season, so none of us know exactly what that was, but it seemed upbeat and good goals set. His job is the maximize the talent within a team concept, so if you want to criticize that.... that’s fine, but it’s not his job to be a Rahh-rahh Guy..... this isn’t college hockey .




This is ridiculous and you don't understand any thing about coaching. If you don't understand the difference between cheerleading and rah rah in minor hockey and motivating men then its a pointless discussion.
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concust
Posted 2017-10-24 8:19 AM (#684855 - in reply to #684541)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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I agree that cheerleading is not what we need right now, but, the problems we have faced encompass a lot more than lack-of-cheerleading. Many (not all) of these problems fall on the coach and the coaching staff, not only because they are failing to implement systems designed for success, but they are failing to adjust and adapt these strategies depending on the game situation.

Do I think that with Sutter or some other coach, we'd be undefeated? Hardly - but even if we would have a similar record and fewer of these problems I'd still be happier with the effort.

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NTHockey
Posted 2017-10-24 9:13 AM (#684859 - in reply to #684799)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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Rangerjunkie - 2017-10-23 9:21 PM

2 wins in 10 games!

On pace for 16-17 wins


Last time they were that bad was 1965-1966 season 18 wins in a 70 game season. Red Sullivan was replaced after 20 games (5-10-5) by Emile Francis (13-31-0). Top Scorer - Bob Nevin (29-33-62). Top defense man - Harry Howell (4-29-33). Top goalie - Rookie Ed Giacomin (8-19-7). Led league in penalty minutes (894), topped by Reg Fleming (124 minutes in only 35 games!).

We'll see at season's end to see if we are that bad,
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-24 10:00 AM (#684862 - in reply to #684855)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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concust - 2017-10-24 7:19 AM

I agree that cheerleading is not what we need right now, but, the problems we have faced encompass a lot more than lack-of-cheerleading. Many (not all) of these problems fall on the coach and the coaching staff, not only because they are failing to implement systems designed for success, but they are failing to adjust and adapt these strategies depending on the game situation.

Do I think that with Sutter or some other coach, we'd be undefeated? Hardly - but even if we would have a similar record and fewer of these problems I'd still be happier with the effort.







So what systems should they implement that are designed for success, that other teams don’t know about, and don’t know how to counteract? It’s not about the system it’s 100% the execution of any system that leads to success. You can either make teams adapt to how your playing which is double mints mantra, or when you have a less skilled team you try to counterattack. But you have to execute either way. Every coach in the NHL knows every thing other teams are trying to do, and know how to counterattack, nobody is surprising anyone on the ice. It’s all about who executes better. The ranger problems right now are between their ears and in their chests not on the blackboard. You can see them cheating all over the ice. Why? Because wonder coach lets them get away with it. Clean up the mental mistakes and lazy plays that are happening all over the ice and they are not in this mess. How? By motivating and making damn sure they execute.
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concust
Posted 2017-10-24 10:18 AM (#684864 - in reply to #684541)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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You're down 3-0 and you want to continue playing the same system and hoping that you make the other team adapt to how you're playing? That's madness. AV's inability to alter his game plans beyond simply "benching/demoting anyone with under 3 years of NHL experience" is the main reason I want him gone.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-24 10:52 AM (#684868 - in reply to #684864)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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concust - 2017-10-24 9:18 AM


You're down 3-0 and you want to continue playing the same system and hoping that you make the other team adapt to how you're playing? That's madness. AV's inability to alter his game plans beyond simply "benching/demoting anyone with under 3 years of NHL experience" is the main reason I want him gone.





No what’s madness is you expecting a team that can’t execute a system and falling behind 3-0 to jump into another system and expect a different outcome.
If the Rangers had better and more motivated execution of what they are trying to do they would have a better record. Simple.
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NTHockey
Posted 2017-10-24 11:34 AM (#684873 - in reply to #684541)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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One thing to keep in mind is that anybody with the talent to make it to the NHL grew up being the best player on his team. As such, he was probably never coached properly in the basics. Too many coaches will send them over the boards to get a goal. They get by on talent alone. When the talent is not enough or they are outplayed by better coached players, thery are neutralized.

For example, our fast skater is out played by a faster skater. Unless our fast skater has learned basics (passing, shooting, positioning), he becomes a pylon.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-24 12:16 PM (#684877 - in reply to #684873)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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NTHockey - 2017-10-24 10:34 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that anybody with the talent to make it to the NHL grew up being the best player on his team. As such, he was probably never coached properly in the basics. Too many coaches will send them over the boards to get a goal. They get by on talent alone. When the talent is not enough or they are outplayed by better coached players, thery are neutralized.

For example, our fast skater is out played by a faster skater. Unless our fast skater has learned basics (passing, shooting, positioning), he becomes a pylon.



Maybe 50 years ago.
Most of these guys have worked with personal trainers at 12, they receive as good a coaching as your going to get going through the process. 98% are graduates of elite programs. They are schooled in all the basics from a young age.
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sureshore
Posted 2017-10-24 1:24 PM (#684889 - in reply to #684877)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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Rranger - 2017-10-24 2:16 PM

NTHockey - 2017-10-24 10:34 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that anybody with the talent to make it to the NHL grew up being the best player on his team. As such, he was probably never coached properly in the basics. Too many coaches will send them over the boards to get a goal. They get by on talent alone. When the talent is not enough or they are outplayed by better coached players, thery are neutralized.

For example, our fast skater is out played by a faster skater. Unless our fast skater has learned basics (passing, shooting, positioning), he becomes a pylon.



Maybe 50 years ago.
Most of these guys have worked with personal trainers at 12, they receive as good a coaching as your going to get going through the process. 98% are graduates of elite programs. They are schooled in all the basics from a young age.


exactly what Rr said.
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PV29
Posted 2017-10-24 1:32 PM (#684891 - in reply to #684836)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-23 10:06 PM

I honestly don’t understand the obsession with replacing AV? Just approaching it logically, he’s not on the ice or really responsible for motivating an nhl team to play in NHL games. There are plenty of other leagues to half-ass it in an get paid. They’re just not a good team. They had a unique mix with Stepan, and I think it’s showing that his absence is (at least particularly ) responsible for this start. Gorton has done nothing to upgrade the team, and if you’re looking to crucify someone, it’s he and Sather.


Ottawa series last year. His mismanagement of at least two games in that series, on top of Game 2 vs. Montreal, should've been enough to can his ass.

His lines are never given time to develop chemistry and familiarity. The team has no identity because the coach hasn't developed one on the team. They get outworked far too much, and their positional game is brutal.

Cheerleading? That's actually the one thing he does OK with, according to Giannone during the games. Fine. Give him a skirt and pom-poms and let him scrape the ice with a shovel during TV timeouts. He sucks and needs to be fired.
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concust
Posted 2017-10-24 1:36 PM (#684893 - in reply to #684891)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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PV29 - 2017-10-24 2:32 PM

Spider3WideBanana - 2017-10-23 10:06 PM

I honestly don’t understand the obsession with replacing AV? Just approaching it logically, he’s not on the ice or really responsible for motivating an nhl team to play in NHL games. There are plenty of other leagues to half-ass it in an get paid. They’re just not a good team. They had a unique mix with Stepan, and I think it’s showing that his absence is (at least particularly ) responsible for this start. Gorton has done nothing to upgrade the team, and if you’re looking to crucify someone, it’s he and Sather.


Ottawa series last year. His mismanagement of at least two games in that series, on top of Game 2 vs. Montreal, should've been enough to can his ass.

His lines are never given time to develop chemistry and familiarity. The team has no identity because the coach hasn't developed one on the team. They get outworked far too much, and their positional game is brutal.

Cheerleading? That's actually the one thing he does OK with, according to Giannone during the games. Fine. Give him a skirt and pom-poms and let him scrape the ice with a shovel during TV timeouts. He sucks and needs to be fired.


This.

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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-10-24 5:19 PM (#684907 - in reply to #684864)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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concust - 2017-10-24 10:18 AM


You're down 3-0 and you want to continue playing the same system and hoping that you make the other team adapt to how you're playing? That's madness. AV's inability to alter his game plans beyond simply "benching/demoting anyone with under 3 years of NHL experience" is the main reason I want him gone.


THIS!!
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2017-10-25 5:29 AM (#684945 - in reply to #684541)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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The past few seasons, all I have heard about this team from the media is the talent and skill level we have. We have a fast team no doubt, but skill level? We have no snipers. Not one guy who can hit the corner of the net or slip it in the five-hole. I swear, every time we have a golden scoring chance, it’s like they’re aiming for the goalie’s chest. These games are becoming unwatchable.
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NTHockey
Posted 2017-10-25 5:54 AM (#684946 - in reply to #684877)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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Rranger - 2017-10-24 2:16 PM

NTHockey - 2017-10-24 10:34 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that anybody with the talent to make it to the NHL grew up being the best player on his team. As such, he was probably never coached properly in the basics. Too many coaches will send them over the boards to get a goal. They get by on talent alone. When the talent is not enough or they are outplayed by better coached players, thery are neutralized.

For example, our fast skater is out played by a faster skater. Unless our fast skater has learned basics (passing, shooting, positioning), he becomes a pylon.



Maybe 50 years ago.
Most of these guys have worked with personal trainers at 12, they receive as good a coaching as your going to get going through the process. 98% are graduates of elite programs. They are schooled in all the basics from a young age.


They must have either been asleep or in lousy programs. How else to explain mistakes that the youngest players are taught not to make (3 & 4 men behind the bet; clearing passes in front of your own net and my favorite - ignoring the opposing player coming out of the penalty box).
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Mandar
Posted 2017-10-25 7:43 AM (#684951 - in reply to #684945)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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Steady Eddie - 2017-10-25 7:29 AM

The past few seasons, all I have heard about this team from the media is the talent and skill level we have. We have a fast team no doubt, but skill level? We have no snipers. Not one guy who can hit the corner of the net or slip it in the five-hole. I swear, every time we have a golden scoring chance, it’s like they’re aiming for the goalie’s chest. These games are becoming unwatchable.


Agreed. Nothing even close to a sniper...because they would rather pass the puck in the net instead of shooting with high quality chances. Snipers want the puck and shoot it.....we don't have that...haven't had that in many years.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2017-10-25 8:02 AM (#684956 - in reply to #684945)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN



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Steady Eddie - 2017-10-25 7:29 AM

The past few seasons, all I have heard about this team from the media is the talent and skill level we have. We have a fast team no doubt, but skill level? We have no snipers. Not one guy who can hit the corner of the net or slip it in the five-hole. I swear, every time we have a golden scoring chance, it’s like they’re aiming for the goalie’s chest. These games are becoming unwatchable.


I just wish they'd remove the top 5 pass options before shooting.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2017-10-25 8:09 AM (#684963 - in reply to #684541)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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I think the closest player to a sniper we have is Buch....Problem is, when you're stuck on the 4th line, there never seems to be enough quality chances.

Put him with Zib or Hayes
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-25 9:40 AM (#684976 - in reply to #684946)
Subject: Re: Game 10: San Jose Sharks @ New York Rangers 10/23/17 - 7pm - MSG/NHLN-US/SN


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NTHockey - 2017-10-25 4:54 AM

Rranger - 2017-10-24 2:16 PM

NTHockey - 2017-10-24 10:34 AM

One thing to keep in mind is that anybody with the talent to make it to the NHL grew up being the best player on his team. As such, he was probably never coached properly in the basics. Too many coaches will send them over the boards to get a goal. They get by on talent alone. When the talent is not enough or they are outplayed by better coached players, thery are neutralized.

For example, our fast skater is out played by a faster skater. Unless our fast skater has learned basics (passing, shooting, positioning), he becomes a pylon.



Maybe 50 years ago.
Most of these guys have worked with personal trainers at 12, they receive as good a coaching as your going to get going through the process. 98% are graduates of elite programs. They are schooled in all the basics from a young age.





They must have either been asleep or in lousy programs. How else to explain mistakes that the youngest players are taught not to make (3 & 4 men behind the bet; clearing passes in front of your own net and my favorite - ignoring the opposing player coming out of the penalty box).




They learned long ago about passing in front of their net, and being aware of a guy in the penalty box. even at this level players need constant reminders of things not to do and punishment when they do things they are not supposed to do. Dumbo only punishes kids or new guys, not members of his favoured bunch. The Rangers send everybody behind their net and have been doing it since double mint got here. Or at the minimum both defense behind the net and usually no forwards watching the front of the net, its his "system". He lets the forwards go unpunished and if it hasn't changed in five years it ain't going to. Classic example I think it was against Nashville Desharnais high in the slot, both defense behind the net, Nashville player in the crease scores. Desharnais is supposed to drop down and cover, he didn't because he was lazy. But no bother he was right back out next shift.
Don't assume just because players are in the NHL they are supposed to do the most fundamental things right, they don't. Goals and scoring opportunities are usually a direct result of the defensive team having a mental breakdown, the odd time a superstar just blows their doors off physically, and you tip your cap.
You would think after boneheads time here, the observation would be made that his teams are still making the same lazy and stupid mistakes, they have been making since he got here. Apparently not.

Edited by Rranger 2017-10-25 10:13 AM
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