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Nieves called up.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-26 8:27 PM (#685316 - in reply to #684902)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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Boo is a lucky guy you ask any center debuting in the NHL if Buchnevich and Grabner are ok to play with and 100 out of 100 would say oh ya. If Nieves can play and solidify the fourth line, the Rangers have the personnel to trot out four strong lines. If he can, double mint has stumbled into a coaches dream of his two bottom lines playing very well and a little tinkering needed to get his top five (less Desharnais) going. The only weak link left would be desharnais who is not suited for any type of playoff hockey let alone regular season top six. He is to easy to play against. Replace him with a more well rounded center or a good winger and move Miller to center, and the Ranger forwards are looking real good. I’m still not a big fan of flyby Zibanejad, but he’s here for awhile yet.
On that note, one game does not a career make and it was Arizona, but Nieves showed some of what he did last season in his one game, but he still has to string some games together. But his play tonight brings up the what was Cracknell doing here? And why is Carey still here? Somewhere in all this is a Double mint, Gorton tug a war with Vigneault the one able to pull the strings in what looks to be attempts to show Gorton up. The timing of the DeAngelo demotion on his birthday, and with the team he’d most want to play against coming in next, and a game I’m sure Gorton would have liked seeing him play is real cold. Playing 7 defenseman so he didn’t have to play Cracknell or Carey was petty on double mints part.
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concust
Posted 2017-10-27 7:25 AM (#685323 - in reply to #684902)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.



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Nieves is not going to finish with 80 points or anything. Glad he got his points but also, this is a winless team's third string goalie.

Positives - Nieves is a natural center and brings stability to the position. I still don't like Buchnevich on the fourth line, he's been one of our best forwards and with no disrespect to Grabner or Nieves, Buch should be playing with more talent. Nieves is not going to be a scoring center, and Grabner - prior to last night, had 6 goals in his previous 45 games. (reg and playoff)

On a side note, everyone always talks about Kreider's inconsistencies but never about Grabner's.... hmmmm...


On that note, one game does not a career make and it was Arizona, but Nieves showed some of what he did last season in his one game, but he still has to string some games together. But his play tonight brings up the what was Cracknell doing here? And why is Carey still here? Somewhere in all this is a Double mint, Gorton tug a war with Vigneault the one able to pull the strings in what looks to be attempts to show Gorton up. The timing of the DeAngelo demotion on his birthday, and with the team he’d most want to play against coming in next, and a game I’m sure Gorton would have liked seeing him play is real cold. Playing 7 defenseman so he didn’t have to play Cracknell or Carey was petty on double mints part.


Cracknell never should have been brought here. He has the ability to play 4th line depth if necessary but it's nothing we didn't have in the system already. Even without the points, Nieves put together a solid game. By any measure, Cracknell is a replacement-level player and if our kids can't play at replacement-level then we have an even bigger problem with the farm than before. This is not a dis on Cracknell, it's just a move that was both unnecessary from the onset, and, mishandled after it was made. The biggest impact Cracknell had on this team is exposing the dysfunction between Gorton, AV, and Ruff.

Carey, I understand having additional veteran depth in case of injury, but if you're playing at home (as the Rangers have been most of October) then call someone up if you feel like you need to. But Carey is not a hill I will die on, they want to carry an extra guy on the roster, fine. No big deal. I'd rather it be Carey than have a kid sit in the pressbox.

The defensemen situation, similar to the fourth line situation, again shows the lack of communication / power struggle between coaching and management. DeAngelo to Hartford is not a terrible move, but the context of it was mishandled. There is also the possibility that Bereglazov goes back to KHL soon. But, my understanding was that acquiring Sproul was a hedge against this anyway.

Gorton/AV clearly are not on the same page. AV is making every move from a win-now point of view, because his job is on the line. Gorton, in assembling a roster that includes/features a number of young players, is clearly thinking that we play as good as we can but we also have to develop some of the young assets we acquired. Of course the longer-term view is one that GMs are generally measured on, so there is natural conflict here - but on most teams they find a way to balance these two. The Rangers, especially the last 12-18 months, have been completely unable to do this. These two guys are trying to take the same team in two different directions, and the 2017-18 season so far, is the result of that.



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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-27 10:18 AM (#685334 - in reply to #684902)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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The problem wasn't Cracknell being brought here, the problem was a idiot coach not giving him any chance what so ever. Probably wouldn’t have made a difference, but if there is one thing to understand about double mint is he has his own agenda. When something goes wrong it’s always “we” and when it goes right “I”.

Edited by Rranger 2017-10-27 1:39 PM
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Mandar
Posted 2017-10-27 2:38 PM (#685338 - in reply to #685334)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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Rranger - 2017-10-27 12:18 PM

The problem wasn't Cracknell being brought here, the problem was a idiot coach not giving him any chance what so ever. Probably wouldn’t have made a difference, but if there is one thing to understand about double mint is he has his own agenda. When something goes wrong it’s always “we” and when it goes right “I”.


Now I understand all the AV hatred (some of it is a bit over the top).....and I'm certainly not a fan of keeping him at this point....

Of course he has his own agenda....what coach doesn't?

but to say "When something goes wrong it’s always “we” and when it goes right “I”. about AV.....I just cant agree. Sure, his line combo's and play style can be questioned.....but a selfish coach who took all the credit when they were winning? I never got that from him.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-27 5:42 PM (#685339 - in reply to #685338)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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Mandar - 2017-10-27 1:38 PM

Rranger - 2017-10-27 12:18 PM

The problem wasn't Cracknell being brought here, the problem was a idiot coach not giving him any chance what so ever. Probably wouldn’t have made a difference, but if there is one thing to understand about double mint is he has his own agenda. When something goes wrong it’s always “we” and when it goes right “I”.


Now I understand all the AV hatred (some of it is a bit over the top).....and I'm certainly not a fan of keeping him at this point....

Of course he has his own agenda....what coach doesn't?

but to say "When something goes wrong it’s always “we” and when it goes right “I”. about AV.....I just cant agree. Sure, his line combo's and play style can be questioned.....but a selfish coach who took all the credit when they were winning? I never got that from him.





It is a pattern in his interviews that I’ve noticed, moreso the I did this and I did that. He was quick to take the credit for putting Hayes with Vesey and Fast. No mention of we, I’m sure this stuff is discussed as a staff. Some of his decisions have led to observations by myself and OTHERS, that a possible power clash with Gorton is in the works and that would be his agenda.
I know I’m being a bit critical, my worst nightmare is possibly coming true as he’s (they) probably on his way to getting the team going well enough to keep his job.

Edited by Rranger 2017-10-27 8:04 PM
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concust
Posted 2017-10-29 6:53 AM (#685503 - in reply to #685334)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.



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Rranger - 2017-10-27 11:18 AM

The problem wasn't Cracknell being brought here, the problem was a idiot coach not giving him any chance what so ever.


The problem was, both. He should never have been brought in because it's not realistic to believe that a 32-year old who has averaged 20 NHL games a season, is going to make any sort of impact or difference on the team, whether the idiot coach gives him a chance, or not.

If AV played Cracknell for a consistent 12 minutes a game, do you really think that would have made the Rangers better? If you do, then dump has a bridge he wants to sell to you.

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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-29 11:04 AM (#685513 - in reply to #685503)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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concust - 2017-10-29 5:53 AM

Rranger - 2017-10-27 11:18 AM

The problem wasn't Cracknell being brought here, the problem was a idiot coach not giving him any chance what so ever.


The problem was, both. He should never have been brought in because it's not realistic to believe that a 32-year old who has averaged 20 NHL games a season, is going to make any sort of impact or difference on the team, whether the idiot coach gives him a chance, or not.

If AV played Cracknell for a consistent 12 minutes a game, do you really think that would have made the Rangers better? If you do, then dump has a bridge he wants to sell to you.




You smart ass dump who has nothing to do with this, I guess it makes you feel good about yourself, good for you. Cracknell wouldn't have done any worse than, Boo's zero's all the way across the stats board last night, oh except his magnificent 1 giveaway and whopping 20% faceoff wins. Every other stat 0. Big comedown from a 3 assist night against the worst team in the league. So he's very much no improvement over anyone as yet. He's got it to do. You can huff and puff all you want about Cracknells 20 games a year it has no bearing on what he accomplished last season. He did it, no flukes, no luck just hard work. I thought a smart guy like you understood you don't put together a career year on a fluke, guess I was wrong. That alone should have got him a realistic chance, but no the idiot coach didn't give him a chance. You ask would he have made the Rangers any better, I say he wouldn't have made them any worse, and was not given a chance to prove otherwise.

Edited by Rranger 2017-10-29 11:51 AM
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Vua
Posted 2017-10-29 11:53 AM (#685518 - in reply to #685513)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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Rranger - 2017-10-29 11:04 AM

concust - 2017-10-29 5:53 AM

Rranger - 2017-10-27 11:18 AM

The problem wasn't Cracknell being brought here, the problem was a idiot coach not giving him any chance what so ever.


The problem was, both. He should never have been brought in because it's not realistic to believe that a 32-year old who has averaged 20 NHL games a season, is going to make any sort of impact or difference on the team, whether the idiot coach gives him a chance, or not.

If AV played Cracknell for a consistent 12 minutes a game, do you really think that would have made the Rangers better? If you do, then dump has a bridge he wants to sell to you.




You smart ass dump who has nothing to do with this, I guess it makes you feel good about yourself, good for you. Cracknell wouldn't have done any worse than, Boo's zero's all the way across the stats board last night, oh except his magnificent 1 giveaway and whopping 20% faceoff wins. Every other stat 0. Big comedown from a 3 assist night against the worst team in the league. So he's very much no improvement over anyone as yet. He's got it to do. You can huff and puff all you want about Cracknells 20 games a year it has no bearing on what he accomplished last season. He did it, no flukes, no luck just hard work. I thought a smart guy like you understood you don't put together a career year on a fluke, guess I was wrong. That alone should have got him a realistic chance, but no the idiot coach didn't give him a chance. You ask would he have made the Rangers any better, I say he wouldn't have made them any worse.


Look at his career. Last year looks like a fluke. It happens sometimes. A career year at 31 years old? Come on. At least Boo has a chance to grow, Cracknell is what he'll always be, an AHL player. Not saying Boo will ever be anything but it's better to have a kid playing who has a chance to become an NHL player over a 32 year old career minor leaguer.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-29 12:08 PM (#685519 - in reply to #685518)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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Vua - 2017-10-29 10:53 AM

Rranger - 2017-10-29 11:04 AM

concust - 2017-10-29 5:53 AM

Rranger - 2017-10-27 11:18 AM

The problem wasn't Cracknell being brought here, the problem was a idiot coach not giving him any chance what so ever.


The problem was, both. He should never have been brought in because it's not realistic to believe that a 32-year old who has averaged 20 NHL games a season, is going to make any sort of impact or difference on the team, whether the idiot coach gives him a chance, or not.

If AV played Cracknell for a consistent 12 minutes a game, do you really think that would have made the Rangers better? If you do, then dump has a bridge he wants to sell to you.




You smart ass dump who has nothing to do with this, I guess it makes you feel good about yourself, good for you. Cracknell wouldn't have done any worse than, Boo's zero's all the way across the stats board last night, oh except his magnificent 1 giveaway and whopping 20% faceoff wins. Every other stat 0. Big comedown from a 3 assist night against the worst team in the league. So he's very much no improvement over anyone as yet. He's got it to do. You can huff and puff all you want about Cracknells 20 games a year it has no bearing on what he accomplished last season. He did it, no flukes, no luck just hard work. I thought a smart guy like you understood you don't put together a career year on a fluke, guess I was wrong. That alone should have got him a realistic chance, but no the idiot coach didn't give him a chance. You ask would he have made the Rangers any better, I say he wouldn't have made them any worse.


Look at his career. Last year looks like a fluke. It happens sometimes. A career year at 31 years old? Come on. At least Boo has a chance to grow, Cracknell is what he'll always be, an AHL player. Not saying Boo will ever be anything but it's better to have a kid playing who has a chance to become an NHL player over a 32 year old career minor leaguer.




He wouldn’t be the first guy to figure it out later on in his career. Scoring 10 goals is not a fluke, an abnomally for sure, but his input and some coaching belief made it happen. . And it certainly doesn’t mean he couldn’t do it again. I’ve never said he was going to be the answer, but he deserved a legitimate shot, not one of Double mints crap jobs. The best player now should be playing. Not going to be and not was the best player. Will see how Boo does. I believe in him and never did understand why he only got one game last season.
It is becoming glaringly apparent the only way double mint wins is by having the most talent and when his teams play well.

Edited by Rranger 2017-10-29 12:27 PM
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concust
Posted 2017-10-30 7:25 AM (#685537 - in reply to #684902)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.



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I respect your opinion about Cracknell's ability but no, nobody has a breakout season at 32. A forward that breaks out "late," is generally 24 or 25 and probably lost time due to injury. Further, it's more rare than people like to admit.

Please prove me wrong, I'd love to see any example of a player that "breaks out" after 30 and goes on to have a productive career. The closest you'll find is a Sergei Makarov situation where a player who has significant overseas experience comes into the league as a "rookie" and has a great first season at an advanced age.
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-30 8:50 AM (#685540 - in reply to #684902)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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I don't agree with your rational that Cracknell at 32 did not have a breakout year last season, because generally only players 24 or 25 have breakout years, age has nothing to do with it. Other than your parameters. He had the best season in the NHL of his career, if that's not breakout, call it what you will, I called it a anomaly which does imply breakout. Its not a fluke, when you have a career season in the NHL. It doesn't mean he can do it again and doesn't mean he can't do it again.
At the time he was here the Rangers had no fourth line center, he could have played center, or on the wing with Desharnais, who should be at best the fourth line center. A far better option than Tony D dressed as the seventh defenseman spotted on the second PP unit, and the accompanying cluster fak of line juggling. Its not like Vigneault's lineups were winning,and I guess blaming Cracknell is a easy option for him.
And this is not about Cracknell breaking out last season, and going on to have a productive career, I haven't said that. Its about a guy being brought in based on some input from Lindy Ruff and obviously other members of the pro scouting staff and filling a hole for the present til a better option comes along. . If he comes in and plays well this year or even part of the year great, somebody better comes along goodbye, that's life as a bubble guy. I don't know if he was the answer, I just know like players before him double mint watches them do a horseshoe drill and doesn't use them.
As a organization it was pathetic to treat a player like that. To hear double mint yap now, Boo was the guy he needed all along. Mind boggling he didn't insist on breaking camp with Nieves, but I guess the three points in 7 games and the minus 5 he racked up in Hartford this season turned his career around. And I've always liked Nieves and hope he is the answer.

Edited by Rranger 2017-10-30 10:44 AM
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robstones
Posted 2017-10-30 12:24 PM (#685543 - in reply to #685537)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.



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concust - 2017-10-30 9:25 AM


I respect your opinion about Cracknell's ability but no, nobody has a breakout season at 32. A forward that breaks out "late," is generally 24 or 25 and probably lost time due to injury. Further, it's more rare than people like to admit.

Please prove me wrong, I'd love to see any example of a player that "breaks out" after 30 and goes on to have a productive career. The closest you'll find is a Sergei Makarov situation where a player who has significant overseas experience comes into the league as a "rookie" and has a great first season at an advanced age.


Derek Dorssett haha
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robstones
Posted 2017-10-30 12:27 PM (#685544 - in reply to #684902)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.



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Cracknell was brought here because of our potential new coach, Lindy Ruff

Nieves.... I could have sworn everyone here called him a bust

Hopefully he can lock down his spot here.

We need to replace Deshernais
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Mandar
Posted 2017-10-30 1:09 PM (#685545 - in reply to #685544)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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robstones - 2017-10-30 2:27 PM

Cracknell was brought here because of our potential new coach, Lindy Ruff

Nieves.... I could have sworn everyone here called him a bust

Hopefully he can lock down his spot here.

We need to replace Deshernais


Now, I don't think the guy is an all-star or anything....but what problems has Desharnais created that would need him to be replaced ("we need to replace Desharnais". Sure, we would all like to have a top 6 talent to put in there, but the guy hasn't been the liability many thought he would be.

All this Cracknell, Nieves, Desharnais talk.....in the rankings of issues this team has, those three are wayyyyy down the list.
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concust
Posted 2017-10-30 2:16 PM (#685546 - in reply to #685540)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.



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Rranger - 2017-10-30 9:50 AM

I don't agree with your rational that Cracknell at 32 did not have a breakout year last season, because generally only players 24 or 25 have breakout years, age has nothing to do with it. Other than your parameters. He had the best season in the NHL of his career, if that's not breakout, call it what you will, I called it a anomaly which does imply breakout. Its not a fluke, when you have a career season in the NHL. It doesn't mean he can do it again and doesn't mean he can't do it again.


We'll agree to disagree then. By your parameters it's not hard to have career highs at 32 when you only average 22 games a year. At that point anyone who gets the opportunity to play 70 games, is going to have a "career year."
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Rranger
Posted 2017-10-30 3:30 PM (#685547 - in reply to #685546)
Subject: Re: Nieves called up.


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concust - 2017-10-30 1:16 PM

Rranger - 2017-10-30 9:50 AM

I don't agree with your rational that Cracknell at 32 did not have a breakout year last season, because generally only players 24 or 25 have breakout years, age has nothing to do with it. Other than your parameters. He had the best season in the NHL of his career, if that's not breakout, call it what you will, I called it a anomaly which does imply breakout. Its not a fluke, when you have a career season in the NHL. It doesn't mean he can do it again and doesn't mean he can't do it again.


We'll agree to disagree then. By your parameters it's not hard to have career highs at 32 when you only average 22 games a year. At that point anyone who gets the opportunity to play 70 games, is going to have a "career year."




“”””I respect your opinion about Cracknell's ability but no, nobody has a breakout season at 32. A forward that breaks out "late," is generally 24 or 25 and probably lost time due to injury. Further, it's more rare than people like to admit. “”””



That’s you making up parameters that you have to be 24 or 25 and probably lost time to injury, to have a breakout year, not me.
I’ve said all along what he accomplished last season was hard, and more so at 32. Nowhere have I said “””” it’s not hard to have career highs at 32 when you only average 22 games a year”””. That’s ridiculous to imply I have.

“””At that point anyone who gets the opportunity to play 70 games is going to have a career year””””
Again ridiculous to imply I said that.

Over and out.


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