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Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors
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concust
Posted 2018-01-25 11:02 AM (#694384 - in reply to #694373)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 11:35 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:31 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 9:19 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:10 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-24 5:07 PM

Looks like the Islanders are gonna be out of Barclays and need an interim home for at least next 3 seasons....Tavares is not going to stick around for that



I’d like to see the Rangers in a position to decide on taking a run on him when and if available. See how things go up til he’s available and then decide if he fits the

If we can sign him for no more than 5 years at no more than Nash money I would do it...





Rumour mill says Tavares contract might break the bank. The new star salary is over $10 mill per, so I doubt he’s signing for Nash money.

Yeah if thats the case I would pass...try to go younger and sign JVR to something reasonable...If we can unload all our Herschel Walkers


I'll say no to that... buying other teams' stars is not how you win a Cup.

What's the biggest UFA signing that's been part of a Cup win in recent memory? Hossa? Chara in 2011? Every other core star is homegrown - Crosby, Malkin, Doughty, Quick, Kopitar, Kane, Toews, Keith, etc.

Ages 24-29 is the prime for a forward, not 27-34.

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Rranger
Posted 2018-01-25 11:12 AM (#694387 - in reply to #694383)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 9:57 AM

Of course the Rangers pick the underage exception guy that not only isn't a #1 overall pick.....but wont even make the NHL





Personally I don’t see his game improving in junior, it’s to easy for him. I believe this guy needs to get knocked around a bit physically to challenge how invested he is in being a NHL player. That would happen in the AHL next year. He never got pushed in junior and has exhibited very few signs he was hungry to get better. He talks a good game but just hasn’t shown atypical kids drive to get better. He’s a corvette with a Vega computer. I’ve watched him a few times this year and he leaves you wanting to see a lot more.

Edited by Rranger 2018-01-25 11:21 AM
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Rranger
Posted 2018-01-25 11:19 AM (#694389 - in reply to #694384)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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concust - 2018-01-25 10:02 AM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 11:35 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:31 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 9:19 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:10 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-24 5:07 PM

Looks like the Islanders are gonna be out of Barclays and need an interim home for at least next 3 seasons....Tavares is not going to stick around for that



I’d like to see the Rangers in a position to decide on taking a run on him when and if available. See how things go up til he’s available and then decide if he fits the

If we can sign him for no more than 5 years at no more than Nash money I would do it...





Rumour mill says Tavares contract might break the bank. The new star salary is over $10 mill per, so I doubt he’s signing for Nash money.

Yeah if thats the case I would pass...try to go younger and sign JVR to something reasonable...If we can unload all our Herschel Walkers


I'll say no to that... buying other teams' stars is not how you win a Cup.

What's the biggest UFA signing that's been part of a Cup win in recent memory? Hossa? Chara in 2011? Every other core star is homegrown - Crosby, Malkin, Doughty, Quick, Kopitar, Kane, Toews, Keith, etc.

Ages 24-29 is the prime for a forward, not 27-34.






You mention all teams that were brutal before they got better. And got the picks to stock with. No one wants to see the Rangers go through that. Three four years of high pics seems to be a minimal to challenge, which means three or four years of bad hockey. I’m not big on Tavares at stupid money, but when one is in a rebuild on the fly, being prepared for multiple scenarios is not bad business.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-01-25 11:25 AM (#694390 - in reply to #694384)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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concust - 2018-01-25 1:02 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 11:35 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:31 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 9:19 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:10 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-24 5:07 PM

Looks like the Islanders are gonna be out of Barclays and need an interim home for at least next 3 seasons....Tavares is not going to stick around for that



I’d like to see the Rangers in a position to decide on taking a run on him when and if available. See how things go up til he’s available and then decide if he fits the

If we can sign him for no more than 5 years at no more than Nash money I would do it...





Rumour mill says Tavares contract might break the bank. The new star salary is over $10 mill per, so I doubt he’s signing for Nash money.

Yeah if thats the case I would pass...try to go younger and sign JVR to something reasonable...If we can unload all our Herschel Walkers


I'll say no to that... buying other teams' stars is not how you win a Cup.

What's the biggest UFA signing that's been part of a Cup win in recent memory? Hossa? Chara in 2011? Every other core star is homegrown - Crosby, Malkin, Doughty, Quick, Kopitar, Kane, Toews, Keith, etc.

Ages 24-29 is the prime for a forward, not 27-34.


We are not winning the Cup anytime soon....So JVR on a team thats rebuilding I wouldnt mind....He's not there to be the Connor MacDavid....just a decent player...with the main focus being bringing up homegrown guys to build a champion
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concust
Posted 2018-01-25 11:26 AM (#694391 - in reply to #694387)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:12 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 9:57 AM

Of course the Rangers pick the underage exception guy that not only isn't a #1 overall pick.....but wont even make the NHL





Personally I don’t see his game improving in junior, it’s to easy for him. I believe this guy needs to get knocked around a bit physically to challenge how invested he is in being a NHL player. That would happen in the AHL next year. He never got pushed in junior and has exhibited very few signs he was hungry to get better. He talks a good game but just hasn’t shown atypical kids drive to get better. He’s a corvette with a Vega computer. I’ve watched him a few times this year and he leaves you wanting to see a lot more.


Right, I had wanted to see him in the AHL this year, for exactly this reason. He's a guy who's ALWAYS been able to get by on talent alone. He's reportedly said that he didn't even take hockey seriously until his second year in the OHL. So he needs to be pushed to a level where he can't do that, can't live off talent alone, in order to see if/how he responds.

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concust
Posted 2018-01-25 11:27 AM (#694393 - in reply to #694391)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Location: USA
concust - 2018-01-25 12:26 PM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:12 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 9:57 AM

Of course the Rangers pick the underage exception guy that not only isn't a #1 overall pick.....but wont even make the NHL





Personally I don’t see his game improving in junior, it’s to easy for him. I believe this guy needs to get knocked around a bit physically to challenge how invested he is in being a NHL player. That would happen in the AHL next year. He never got pushed in junior and has exhibited very few signs he was hungry to get better. He talks a good game but just hasn’t shown atypical kids drive to get better. He’s a corvette with a Vega computer. I’ve watched him a few times this year and he leaves you wanting to see a lot more.


Right, I had wanted to see him in the AHL this year, for exactly this reason. He's a guy who's ALWAYS been able to get by on talent alone. He's reportedly said that he didn't even take hockey seriously until his second year in the OHL. So he needs to be pushed to a level where he can't do that, can't live off talent alone, in order to see if/how he responds.



However I will add to that, he has had ample opportunity to improve on certain aspects of his game versus easier competition in the OHL, and he hasn't done that. I don't watch every game of his so I can't say this firsthand but that's pretty much the consensus from everything I've read.

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Rranger
Posted 2018-01-25 11:45 AM (#694395 - in reply to #694393)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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concust - 2018-01-25 10:27 AM

concust - 2018-01-25 12:26 PM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:12 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 9:57 AM

Of course the Rangers pick the underage exception guy that not only isn't a #1 overall pick.....but wont even make the NHL





Personally I don’t see his game improving in junior, it’s to easy for him. I believe this guy needs to get knocked around a bit physically to challenge how invested he is in being a NHL player. That would happen in the AHL next year. He never got pushed in junior and has exhibited very few signs he was hungry to get better. He talks a good game but just hasn’t shown atypical kids drive to get better. He’s a corvette with a Vega computer. I’ve watched him a few times this year and he leaves you wanting to see a lot more.


Right, I had wanted to see him in the AHL this year, for exactly this reason. He's a guy who's ALWAYS been able to get by on talent alone. He's reportedly said that he didn't even take hockey seriously until his second year in the OHL. So he needs to be pushed to a level where he can't do that, can't live off talent alone, in order to see if/how he responds.



However I will add to that, he has had ample opportunity to improve on certain aspects of his game versus easier competition in the OHL, and he hasn't done that. I don't watch every game of his so I can't say this firsthand but that's pretty much the consensus from everything I've read.





He was to immature this season for the AHL he would have got buried. Sadly staying in junior hasn’t challenged him enough even though he’s in his normal graduate from junior year. If he got sent back next year for a overage year we’ll then he’s toast. His issue since day one is maturity, you can see it in every interview, he’s still very boyish. If his maturity and mental toughness and want, ever approaches his talent level well then the Rangers got something. Next year will tell the tale.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-01-25 1:06 PM (#694402 - in reply to #693944)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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Let's just all hope he matures finally, and someone teach him how to be a pro.

Would hate to see a guy with the "potential" we hear about just wasted. Someone has to take him under their wing!
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Mandar
Posted 2018-01-25 2:23 PM (#694405 - in reply to #694402)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-01-25 3:06 PM

Let's just all hope he matures finally, and someone teach him how to be a pro.

Would hate to see a guy with the "potential" we hear about just wasted. Someone has to take him under their wing!


This could be said about the majority of draft picks (especially those taken in the 3rd round). Draft is a crap shoot (unless you are a Crosby, McDavid, etc. - not many of those guys around).
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Mandar
Posted 2018-01-25 2:30 PM (#694406 - in reply to #694390)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 1:25 PM

concust - 2018-01-25 1:02 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 11:35 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:31 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 9:19 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:10 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-24 5:07 PM

Looks like the Islanders are gonna be out of Barclays and need an interim home for at least next 3 seasons....Tavares is not going to stick around for that



I’d like to see the Rangers in a position to decide on taking a run on him when and if available. See how things go up til he’s available and then decide if he fits the

If we can sign him for no more than 5 years at no more than Nash money I would do it...





Rumour mill says Tavares contract might break the bank. The new star salary is over $10 mill per, so I doubt he’s signing for Nash money.

Yeah if thats the case I would pass...try to go younger and sign JVR to something reasonable...If we can unload all our Herschel Walkers


I'll say no to that... buying other teams' stars is not how you win a Cup.

What's the biggest UFA signing that's been part of a Cup win in recent memory? Hossa? Chara in 2011? Every other core star is homegrown - Crosby, Malkin, Doughty, Quick, Kopitar, Kane, Toews, Keith, etc.

Ages 24-29 is the prime for a forward, not 27-34.


We are not winning the Cup anytime soon....So JVR on a team thats rebuilding I wouldnt mind....He's not there to be the Connor MacDavid....just a decent player...with the main focus being bringing up homegrown guys to build a champion


JVR will be 29 in May. I thought we wanted all the picks....now we take on 29 year old forwards that have one career 30-goal season? He's played on what....2 or 3 playoff teams in his career (and never won a single round)? Lots of "decent" players out there....I guess we are setting the bar at "decent" now.

Is this just another Duchene pipedream (you see how well that one has turned out for Ottawa)?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-01-25 3:06 PM (#694415 - in reply to #694406)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Mandar - 2018-01-25 4:30 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 1:25 PM

concust - 2018-01-25 1:02 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 11:35 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:31 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-25 9:19 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:10 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-24 5:07 PM

Looks like the Islanders are gonna be out of Barclays and need an interim home for at least next 3 seasons....Tavares is not going to stick around for that



I’d like to see the Rangers in a position to decide on taking a run on him when and if available. See how things go up til he’s available and then decide if he fits the

If we can sign him for no more than 5 years at no more than Nash money I would do it...





Rumour mill says Tavares contract might break the bank. The new star salary is over $10 mill per, so I doubt he’s signing for Nash money.

Yeah if thats the case I would pass...try to go younger and sign JVR to something reasonable...If we can unload all our Herschel Walkers


I'll say no to that... buying other teams' stars is not how you win a Cup.

What's the biggest UFA signing that's been part of a Cup win in recent memory? Hossa? Chara in 2011? Every other core star is homegrown - Crosby, Malkin, Doughty, Quick, Kopitar, Kane, Toews, Keith, etc.

Ages 24-29 is the prime for a forward, not 27-34.


We are not winning the Cup anytime soon....So JVR on a team thats rebuilding I wouldnt mind....He's not there to be the Connor MacDavid....just a decent player...with the main focus being bringing up homegrown guys to build a champion


JVR will be 29 in May. I thought we wanted all the picks....now we take on 29 year old forwards that have one career 30-goal season? He's played on what....2 or 3 playoff teams in his career (and never won a single round)? Lots of "decent" players out there....I guess we are setting the bar at "decent" now.

Is this just another Duchene pipedream (you see how well that one has turned out for Ottawa)?

Duchene never played for us so you dont know chit....If we are rebuilding and not going to win the Cup next year either then what is wrong with adding a decent player that could give us a few years? ....You prob want to extend Nash
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PV29
Posted 2018-01-25 4:05 PM (#694425 - in reply to #694339)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


Blue404 - 2018-01-24 6:23 PM

Can we trade a coach?Has this happened ever in a history of NHL?



I believe Espo traded a draft pick to get Michel Bergeron from the Nordiques.

Espo traded everything and everyone. Rumor is that he traded 2 beer vendors for a pretzel vendor and a hot dog guy to be named later.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-01-25 4:41 PM (#694428 - in reply to #694425)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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PV29 - 2018-01-25 3:05 PM

Blue404 - 2018-01-24 6:23 PM

Can we trade a coach?Has this happened ever in a history of NHL?



I believe Espo traded a draft pick to get Michel Bergeron from the Nordiques.

Espo traded everything and everyone. Rumor is that he traded 2 beer vendors for a pretzel vendor and a hot dog guy to be named later.





I liked ESPO but will never forgive him for trading Mike Ridley and Kelly Miller for Bob Carpenter. Second was his trading Mark Tinordi.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-01-25 4:46 PM (#694429 - in reply to #694428)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Rranger - 2018-01-25 6:41 PM

PV29 - 2018-01-25 3:05 PM

Blue404 - 2018-01-24 6:23 PM

Can we trade a coach?Has this happened ever in a history of NHL?



I believe Espo traded a draft pick to get Michel Bergeron from the Nordiques.

Espo traded everything and everyone. Rumor is that he traded 2 beer vendors for a pretzel vendor and a hot dog guy to be named later.


I liked ESPO but will never forgive him for trading Mike Ridley and Kelly Miller for Bob Carpenter. Second was his trading Mark Tinordi.

Hideous trade up near the top all time
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Mandar
Posted 2018-01-25 4:57 PM (#694430 - in reply to #694428)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


MVP

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Rranger - 2018-01-25 6:41 PM

PV29 - 2018-01-25 3:05 PM

Blue404 - 2018-01-24 6:23 PM

Can we trade a coach?Has this happened ever in a history of NHL?



I believe Espo traded a draft pick to get Michel Bergeron from the Nordiques.

Espo traded everything and everyone. Rumor is that he traded 2 beer vendors for a pretzel vendor and a hot dog guy to be named later.


Tom Laidlaw for an ancient Marcel Dionne. Was always a big Laidlaw fan.


I liked ESPO but will never forgive him for trading Mike Ridley and Kelly Miller for Bob Carpenter. Second was his trading Mark Tinordi.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-01-25 5:09 PM (#694431 - in reply to #694405)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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Mandar - 2018-01-25 2:23 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2018-01-25 3:06 PM

Let's just all hope he matures finally, and someone teach him how to be a pro.

Would hate to see a guy with the "potential" we hear about just wasted. Someone has to take him under their wing!


This could be said about the majority of draft picks (especially those taken in the 3rd round). Draft is a crap shoot (unless you are a Crosby, McDavid, etc. - not many of those guys around).


I agree that draft picks are a crap shoot, however Day was one of (what five?) listed as extraordinarily talented.

If maturity is the only thing keeping him off the Rangers, then I hope he grows up!
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Rranger
Posted 2018-01-25 5:42 PM (#694444 - in reply to #694431)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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Rangerjunkie - 2018-01-25 4:09 PM

Mandar - 2018-01-25 2:23 PM

Rangerjunkie - 2018-01-25 3:06 PM

Let's just all hope he matures finally, and someone teach him how to be a pro.

Would hate to see a guy with the "potential" we hear about just wasted. Someone has to take him under their wing!


This could be said about the majority of draft picks (especially those taken in the 3rd round). Draft is a crap shoot (unless you are a Crosby, McDavid, etc. - not many of those guys around).


I agree that draft picks are a crap shoot, however Day was one of (what five?) listed as extraordinarily talented.

If maturity is the only thing keeping him off the Rangers, then I hope he grows up!




This guy is not a typical third round pick, his physical capabilities are all world. He has number one overall draft pick skills. His mental side of the game is far behind his skill level. My humble opinion is he needs to mature and toughen up, and he’s got to want it and work for it instead of going about it with a expectation it’s just going to happen for him. It’s all on this kids maturity and resulting attitude.
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sureshore
Posted 2018-01-26 7:06 AM (#694643 - in reply to #694428)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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Rranger - 2018-01-25 6:41 PM

PV29 - 2018-01-25 3:05 PM

Blue404 - 2018-01-24 6:23 PM

Can we trade a coach?Has this happened ever in a history of NHL?



I believe Espo traded a draft pick to get Michel Bergeron from the Nordiques.

Espo traded everything and everyone. Rumor is that he traded 2 beer vendors for a pretzel vendor and a hot dog guy to be named later.





I liked ESPO but will never forgive him for trading Mike Ridley and Kelly Miller for Bob Carpenter. Second was his trading Mark Tinordi.



I liked him too but will never forgive him for trading my favorite beer vendor
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concust
Posted 2018-01-26 9:12 AM (#694652 - in reply to #694389)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



Legend

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Location: USA
Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:19 PM



You mention all teams that were brutal before they got better. And got the picks to stock with. No one wants to see the Rangers go through that.
Three four years of high pics seems to be a minimal to challenge, which means three or four years of bad hockey. I’m not big on Tavares at stupid money, but when one is in a rebuild on the fly, being prepared for multiple scenarios is not bad business.


That's apparently how you win Cups in the new NHL. If a market like Toronto can recognize that fact then why can't NY? Did the fans stop going to Leafs games while they sucked? Would you stop being a Rangers fan if they were terrible for a couple of years? Would it be SOOOOO much worse than what we're doing right now?

"Rebuild on the fly" is Jeff Gorton double talk. There's no rebuild because we didn't have a championship team to rebuild from. Chicago is attempting a "rebuild on the fly" right now and it's tough on them. But, they've got 3 cups in recent memory to work from and a core of those high picks. Rather than Gorton's language of "rebuild on the fly" I prefer "desperately try to salvage the last few years of elite goaltending."

I agree it's absolutely necessary to plan for multiple scenarios - my argument being that locking yourselves in to a 27 year old Tavares at $10m+ for 7 years, eliminates a lot of flexibility to plan for those multiple scenarios. Hasn't that been the argument against Nash all these years? Yeah he scores some goals but he "ain't worth $8m". Why would signing Tavares to $10m be any different for the next 10 years, we just swap Nash for Tavares.

(These are more general thoughts I am not saying you are advocating for Tavares)
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2018-01-26 9:27 AM (#694655 - in reply to #694652)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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concust - 2018-01-26 11:12 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:19 PM



You mention all teams that were brutal before they got better. And got the picks to stock with. No one wants to see the Rangers go through that.
Three four years of high pics seems to be a minimal to challenge, which means three or four years of bad hockey. I’m not big on Tavares at stupid money, but when one is in a rebuild on the fly, being prepared for multiple scenarios is not bad business.


That's apparently how you win Cups in the new NHL. If a market like Toronto can recognize that fact then why can't NY? Did the fans stop going to Leafs games while they sucked? Would you stop being a Rangers fan if they were terrible for a couple of years? Would it be SOOOOO much worse than what we're doing right now?

"Rebuild on the fly" is Jeff Gorton double talk. There's no rebuild because we didn't have a championship team to rebuild from. Chicago is attempting a "rebuild on the fly" right now and it's tough on them. But, they've got 3 cups in recent memory to work from and a core of those high picks. Rather than Gorton's language of "rebuild on the fly" I prefer "desperately try to salvage the last few years of elite goaltending."

I agree it's absolutely necessary to plan for multiple scenarios - my argument being that locking yourselves in to a 27 year old Tavares at $10m+ for 7 years, eliminates a lot of flexibility to plan for those multiple scenarios. Hasn't that been the argument against Nash all these years? Yeah he scores some goals but he "ain't worth $8m". Why would signing Tavares to $10m be any different for the next 10 years, we just swap Nash for Tavares.

(These are more general thoughts I am not saying you are advocating for Tavares)


That’s the irony or even tradegy of teams who have gotten to the finals made the playoffs for 8 years... they’re never given a break (from their fans and press) or chance to rebuild on the fly... because they never won the CUP



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concust
Posted 2018-01-26 9:36 AM (#694656 - in reply to #694655)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



Legend

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Location: USA
Andy Bathgate - 2018-01-26 10:27 AM

concust - 2018-01-26 11:12 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:19 PM



You mention all teams that were brutal before they got better. And got the picks to stock with. No one wants to see the Rangers go through that.
Three four years of high pics seems to be a minimal to challenge, which means three or four years of bad hockey. I’m not big on Tavares at stupid money, but when one is in a rebuild on the fly, being prepared for multiple scenarios is not bad business.


That's apparently how you win Cups in the new NHL. If a market like Toronto can recognize that fact then why can't NY? Did the fans stop going to Leafs games while they sucked? Would you stop being a Rangers fan if they were terrible for a couple of years? Would it be SOOOOO much worse than what we're doing right now?

"Rebuild on the fly" is Jeff Gorton double talk. There's no rebuild because we didn't have a championship team to rebuild from. Chicago is attempting a "rebuild on the fly" right now and it's tough on them. But, they've got 3 cups in recent memory to work from and a core of those high picks. Rather than Gorton's language of "rebuild on the fly" I prefer "desperately try to salvage the last few years of elite goaltending."

I agree it's absolutely necessary to plan for multiple scenarios - my argument being that locking yourselves in to a 27 year old Tavares at $10m+ for 7 years, eliminates a lot of flexibility to plan for those multiple scenarios. Hasn't that been the argument against Nash all these years? Yeah he scores some goals but he "ain't worth $8m". Why would signing Tavares to $10m be any different for the next 10 years, we just swap Nash for Tavares.

(These are more general thoughts I am not saying you are advocating for Tavares)


That’s the irony or even tradegy of teams who have gotten to the finals made the playoffs for 8 years... they’re never given a break (from their fans and press) or chance to rebuild on the fly... because they never won the CUP





I just don't think that "rebuild on the fly" is really even possible. You're trying to keep your core together (which is aging) and then add young assets (who are often too young to make an immediate NHL impact). And it's hard to do that when you're trading away picks every year for rentals (because you think you're a contender), and even when you do keep your first rounder it's not a high one, it's a mid-low one, due to your "success". It's a recipe for continuous mediocrity.

The only way to break out of it IMO is to suck for a couple of years, draft as high as possible, make smart value FA acquisitions, and have your core hit their prime at 24-29.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-01-26 9:40 AM (#694657 - in reply to #693944)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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We want the Cup...not the playoffs...Hawks win it 3 times in 6 years...Wings win it a few times...Pens have 5 since 1990's.... Scum Devils have 3 ...Isles win 4 in a row..... Carolina and TB have won it...what do we do? We draft poorly, trade our #1's away and sign guys to monster contracts at the end of their prime
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Rranger
Posted 2018-01-26 10:04 AM (#694660 - in reply to #694652)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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concust - 2018-01-26 8:12 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 12:19 PM



You mention all teams that were brutal before they got better. And got the picks to stock with. No one wants to see the Rangers go through that.
Three four years of high pics seems to be a minimal to challenge, which means three or four years of bad hockey. I’m not big on Tavares at stupid money, but when one is in a rebuild on the fly, being prepared for multiple scenarios is not bad business.


That's apparently how you win Cups in the new NHL. If a market like Toronto can recognize that fact then why can't NY? Did the fans stop going to Leafs games while they sucked? Would you stop being a Rangers fan if they were terrible for a couple of years? Would it be SOOOOO much worse than what we're doing right now?

"Rebuild on the fly" is Jeff Gorton double talk. There's no rebuild because we didn't have a championship team to rebuild from. Chicago is attempting a "rebuild on the fly" right now and it's tough on them. But, they've got 3 cups in recent memory to work from and a core of those high picks. Rather than Gorton's language of "rebuild on the fly" I prefer "desperately try to salvage the last few years of elite goaltending."

I agree it's absolutely necessary to plan for multiple scenarios - my argument being that locking yourselves in to a 27 year old Tavares at $10m+ for 7 years, eliminates a lot of flexibility to plan for those multiple scenarios. Hasn't that been the argument against Nash all these years? Yeah he scores some goals but he "ain't worth $8m". Why would signing Tavares to $10m be any different for the next 10 years, we just swap Nash for Tavares.

(These are more general thoughts I am not saying you are advocating for Tavares)




The Rangers got as close to a cup as you can get during this run. No harm there, they tried. And now its time to reload or tank. I don't advocate signing Tavares per se. But if a team was setup and he was a final piece then yes you do it. My attitude is be cognizant of his possible availability, and his fit with your team. I still believe the Rangers can go for a selloff and not take to big a step backwards. Unless they do tank, the only way they get a player like Tavares is to sign him.
Toronto has been tanking forever with a intermittent flash of hope for a couple years then back to bottom feeder., and they still have a lot of question marks. As far as tanking goes, ask Edmonton, Carolina, Islanders, how its worked out for them? Just because you draft near the top doesn't guarantee success. You now have be very lucky with the draft lottery to land a McDavid, a draft lottery that has made it tougher on poor teams, with the roll the dice final rankings. There are no more guarantee's tanking, than trying Gorton's plan. But you do have to have draft picks and use them wisely. Not exactly a Sather strong suit. Considering the sum of Gortons parts has been a Stepan trade for players with a lot of upside and Zibanejad and a second pick for Brassrd, I'd say its a little early to judge Gorton I'm a lot more concerned about the coaching than anything Gorton has done. We both know this trade deadline and summer will reflect on Gorton. The future boils down to how he handles, Nash, Grabner, and McDonagh. I'm inclined to wait and see how his plan looks going into next season.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-01-26 10:08 AM (#694661 - in reply to #693944)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-01-26 10:34 AM (#694665 - in reply to #694389)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Rranger - 2018-01-25 1:19 PM

Three four years of high pics seems to be a minimal to challenge, which means three or four years of bad hockey.


As if the hockey we're getting now is good hockey.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-01-26 11:32 AM (#694667 - in reply to #694665)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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Mjolnir - 2018-01-26 9:34 AM

Rranger - 2018-01-25 1:19 PM

Three four years of high pics seems to be a minimal to challenge, which means three or four years of bad hockey.


As if the hockey we're getting now is good hockey.





Look behind the bench not in front of it. When they get rid of the fool behind it the hockey will improve, either way it’s still a lot better than Arizona land. Another failed tank rebuild.

Edited by Rranger 2018-01-26 11:46 AM
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concust
Posted 2018-01-26 12:06 PM (#694668 - in reply to #694660)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Rranger - 2018-01-26 11:04 AM

The Rangers got as close to a cup as you can get during this run. No harm there, they tried. And now its time to reload or tank. I don't advocate signing Tavares per se. But if a team was setup and he was a final piece then yes you do it. My attitude is be cognizant of his possible availability, and his fit with your team. I still believe the Rangers can go for a selloff and not take to big a step backwards. Unless they do tank, the only way they get a player like Tavares is to sign him.
Toronto has been tanking forever with a intermittent flash of hope for a couple years then back to bottom feeder., and they still have a lot of question marks. As far as tanking goes, ask Edmonton, Carolina, Islanders, how its worked out for them? Just because you draft near the top doesn't guarantee success. You now have be very lucky with the draft lottery to land a McDavid, a draft lottery that has made it tougher on poor teams, with the roll the dice final rankings. There are no more guarantee's tanking, than trying Gorton's plan. But you do have to have draft picks and use them wisely. Not exactly a Sather strong suit. Considering the sum of Gortons parts has been a Stepan trade for players with a lot of upside and Zibanejad and a second pick for Brassrd, I'd say its a little early to judge Gorton I'm a lot more concerned about the coaching than anything Gorton has done. We both know this trade deadline and summer will reflect on Gorton. The future boils down to how he handles, Nash, Grabner, and McDonagh. I'm inclined to wait and see how his plan looks going into next season.


I'm a clear "no" on Tavares because he's only got a couple of years of his prime left and then it'll be decline. He's super talented but he's going to look back on his career and realize how much of his talents were wasted on the Islanders.

Speaking of the Islanders, you mentioned them, Edmonton, and Carolina. Sure they've all drafted high, and not yet had success. The draft of course is only part of the equation, you have to manage and develop properly after it. Chiarelli has basically destroyed Edmonton with bad trades (Hall, Eberle, Barzal) and terrible signings (Lucic). The Islanders have drafted high but poorly (Strome, Reinhart) and when they did draft pretty well, they gave up on him and traded him away (Niederreiter). Carolina I think is looking pretty good and should be competing very soon as soon as they figure out goaltending.

You can undo lots of good with sh!tty GM-ing. Point is not that high picks guarantee success, but rather, championships are not possible without the high picks. That's clearly the blueprint for winning in the salary cap era and the sooner we get on board with that the better. So my vote is to blow it up and start over.

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Rranger
Posted 2018-01-26 12:22 PM (#694670 - in reply to #693944)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors


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No matter what method you use, tank or tear down you have to be good at it, and have some luck, 32 teams going for one trophy doesn’t allow for mistakes. There is no right way. Look at Anaheim’s cup, later first round picks Perry, and Getzlaf great trades Niedemairer and they won their cup.

Edited by Rranger 2018-01-26 12:23 PM
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2018-01-26 12:22 PM (#694671 - in reply to #694657)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Mikey Red - 2018-01-26 11:40 AM

We want the Cup...not the playoffs...Hawks win it 3 times in 6 years...Wings win it a few times...Pens have 5 since 1990's.... Scum Devils have 3 ...Isles win 4 in a row..... Carolina and TB have won it...what do we do? We draft poorly, trade our #1's away and sign guys to monster contracts at the end of their prime


The curse of being in Midtown NY... and owned by Dolan. He’s the one that hired and kept Sather around forever.


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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-01-26 12:31 PM (#694672 - in reply to #694671)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Andy Bathgate - 2018-01-26 2:22 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-26 11:40 AM

We want the Cup...not the playoffs...Hawks win it 3 times in 6 years...Wings win it a few times...Pens have 5 since 1990's.... Scum Devils have 3 ...Isles win 4 in a row..... Carolina and TB have won it...what do we do? We draft poorly, trade our #1's away and sign guys to monster contracts at the end of their prime


The curse of being in Midtown NY... and owned by Dolan. He’s the one that hired and kept Sather around forever.



Yep Indeed! Do you know anyone that can fire Dolan forever?
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Andy Bathgate
Posted 2018-01-26 12:35 PM (#694674 - in reply to #694672)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Mikey Red - 2018-01-26 2:31 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2018-01-26 2:22 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-26 11:40 AM

We want the Cup...not the playoffs...Hawks win it 3 times in 6 years...Wings win it a few times...Pens have 5 since 1990's.... Scum Devils have 3 ...Isles win 4 in a row..... Carolina and TB have won it...what do we do? We draft poorly, trade our #1's away and sign guys to monster contracts at the end of their prime


The curse of being in Midtown NY... and owned by Dolan. He’s the one that hired and kept Sather around forever.



Yep Indeed! Do you know anyone that can fire Dolan forever?


Yeah... But I don't pray to him for bad things to happen.



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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-01-26 12:37 PM (#694675 - in reply to #694674)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Andy Bathgate - 2018-01-26 2:35 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-26 2:31 PM

Andy Bathgate - 2018-01-26 2:22 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-01-26 11:40 AM

We want the Cup...not the playoffs...Hawks win it 3 times in 6 years...Wings win it a few times...Pens have 5 since 1990's.... Scum Devils have 3 ...Isles win 4 in a row..... Carolina and TB have won it...what do we do? We draft poorly, trade our #1's away and sign guys to monster contracts at the end of their prime


The curse of being in Midtown NY... and owned by Dolan. He’s the one that hired and kept Sather around forever.



Yep Indeed! Do you know anyone that can fire Dolan forever?


Yeah... But I don't pray to him for bad things to happen.




Lol just make him sign the team over to someone not Sather then stay on LI forever
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concust
Posted 2018-01-26 12:37 PM (#694676 - in reply to #694670)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Rranger - 2018-01-26 1:22 PM

No matter what method you use, tank or tear down you have to be good at it, and have some luck, 32 teams going for one trophy doesn’t allow for mistakes. There is no right way. Look at Anaheim’s cup, later first round picks Perry, and Getzlaf great trades Niedemairer and they won their cup.


I agree there's no single right way, but looking at a list of winners recently the bulk of them have all followed the draft-high and build blueprint so I'll say that's the most likely path of success. Boston in 2011 did not have multiple top draft picks as their core either, they built a lot around good second round picks, a couple good UFAs, and Tim Thomas playing out of his mind. They did have Seguin and Wheeler, both top 3 picks, on the team though.

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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-01-26 1:05 PM (#694678 - in reply to #693944)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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The common theme amongst all those teams is that they knew what system they wanted, drafted the players they needed for that system AND trained their youth accordingly.....when there was an injury or an open slot, they were able to seamlessly promote someone to step in without any problems because they knew what they had and what that player could do.

Rangers have never done that.....
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-01-26 1:08 PM (#694679 - in reply to #694678)
Subject: Re: Zuccarello and Nash on possible trade rumors



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Mjolnir - 2018-01-26 3:05 PM

The common theme amongst all those teams is that they knew what system they wanted, drafted the players they needed for that system AND trained their youth accordingly.....when there was an injury or an open slot, they were able to seamlessly promote someone to step in without any problems because they knew what they had and what that player could do.

Rangers have never done that.....

Ever
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