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Well this team sucks
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-02-02 11:44 AM (#695085)
Subject: Well this team sucks


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So does the Gm it seems. Gorton will probably find a way to make no deals, claiming he was offered garbage for all his players while we watch other teams trade worse players for great returns.
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2018-02-02 2:18 PM (#695092 - in reply to #695085)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks


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Put a fork in the Rangers, they are toast, they are done. This group of players had a good run of many years. It is time for a rebuild, sell @ the deadline. Unfortunately for Hank, who has won just about everything & breaking all the goaltending records, but for the ultimate goal it doesn't look good, unless he is moved to a contender. The Rangers should be sellers.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-02-03 8:25 AM (#695108 - in reply to #695085)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks


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I tried to tell certain dopes in our fan base when you make these go for it deals at the deadline year after year, eventually, you will have a crap farm and the team will lack young talent. Exactly what we are seeing now.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-02-03 8:33 AM (#695111 - in reply to #695108)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks



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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-02-03 10:25 AM

I tried to tell certain dopes in our fan base when you make these go for it deals at the deadline year after year, eventually, you will have a crap farm and the team will lack young talent. Exactly what we are seeing now.

Yep 4 #1's and 5 players for Nash, St.Loius, and Yandle....Way to go Glenn
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Vua
Posted 2018-02-03 8:35 AM (#695112 - in reply to #695108)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks


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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-02-03 8:25 AM

I tried to tell certain dopes in our fan base when you make these go for it deals at the deadline year after year, eventually, you will have a crap farm and the team will lack young talent. Exactly what we are seeing now.


Actually certain dopes have told you we have no prospects and you tell us our farm team produces NHL players every year and how good this prospect is and that prospect is and we're all idiots for not knowing. So are the certain dopes you were talking about yourself and the different names you've posted as throughout the years?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-02-03 9:14 AM (#695114 - in reply to #695085)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks



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How bad are our 3 and 4th lines tonight since AV says no call up?

Matt Calamia
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23h23 hours ago
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With no Buchnevich, #NYR lines:
Vesey - Zibanejad - Nash
Grabner - Hayes - Zuccarello
Miller - Holland - Fast
McLeod - Desharnais - Carey

McDonagh - Holden
Skjei - Staal
Smith - DeAngelo
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-02-03 9:41 AM (#695116 - in reply to #695085)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks


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Wrong Vua. What you said going 8 to 10 years back was our farm stunk and didn't produce anything which was a lie. The Rangers have produced players year after year from the farm for many years. However, all those go for it deals in a specific stretch have dried the farm up at this time. The current state of the farm is not deep. Going back 4 years ago it was fine. Right now the best prospects in the system are 18. From 2013 to 2016 the Rangers had no first rounder, and in 2 of those years, no second rounder. It takes about 3-4 years for most prospects to develop. So, that stretch where the team had no first rounders is just showing up now. The only chance they have of not suffering horribly from those years is if a few late rounders like Ronning, Day, Shesterkin, Graves, Huska and Gropp can turn into steals.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-02-03 11:10 AM (#695117 - in reply to #695085)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks


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This board has been consistent saying the farm sucks going back to the days when Lundqvist was in his early 20's. As we can see now, that was complete nonsense. However, for straight years of no first rounds and 2 with no second rounds is bound to screw you over for a while.
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Vua
Posted 2018-02-03 12:16 PM (#695119 - in reply to #695116)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks


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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-02-03 9:41 AM

Wrong Vua. What you said going 8 to 10 years back was our farm stunk and didn't produce anything which was a lie. The Rangers have produced players year after year from the farm for many years. However, all those go for it deals in a specific stretch have dried the farm up at this time. The current state of the farm is not deep. Going back 4 years ago it was fine. Right now the best prospects in the system are 18. From 2013 to 2016 the Rangers had no first rounder, and in 2 of those years, no second rounder. It takes about 3-4 years for most prospects to develop. So, that stretch where the team had no first rounders is just showing up now. The only chance they have of not suffering horribly from those years is if a few late rounders like Ronning, Day, Shesterkin, Graves, Huska and Gropp can turn into steals.


Vua has told you time and again that he knows nothing about prospects because he doesn't watch jr, college or AHL hockey. He admits he knows nothing about them and doesn't try and pretend he does like you. He just points out when you're obviously wrong or not telling the truth like now. Don't make him pull up quotes please. He'd rather not embarrass you again.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-02-04 1:46 PM (#695368 - in reply to #695085)
Subject: RE: Well this team sucks


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I remember going back to the days of Pack Attack. Our farm sucks. Our prospects suck. Then one came up after another and the team made the playoffs for pretty much 11 years straight. Farm is a little thin right now but last year helped and some deals this year can get the system up track. The fact that the coach has turned into an imbecile isn't helping things.
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concust
Posted 2018-02-07 11:51 AM (#695560 - in reply to #695117)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks



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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-02-03 12:10 PM

This board has been consistent saying the farm sucks going back to the days when Lundqvist was in his early 20's. As we can see now, that was complete nonsense. However, for straight years of no first rounds and 2 with no second rounds is bound to screw you over for a while.


The farm team sucks because we don't put any talent into it. That's somewhat understandable, since we've traded away draft picks for years and had to make due with third round picks and smart amateur signings from NCAA and european leagues.

You point to the fact that the farm team graduates NHLers almost every year. I got news for you though - EVERY TEAM'S FARM SYSTEM DOES THIS. It's really not an accomplishment to graduate a Jesper Fast or a Dubinsky every year. These are table stakes. This is not special. If you looked at other team's farm systems you'd see the exact same thing.

The major difference is we don't have elite level prospect talent, and other teams do. This is why their systems are better. It's not a personal slight on the NYR, those teams generally drafted higher, and their prospect pools and farm systems are richer for it.

Look at NYR roster and point out all the Wolf Pack graduates. I don't mean the 6-game stint guys either, I mean the guys that developed there. JT Miller is one (101 games), Zuccarello (74 games) is sort of another (I'm being generous here given his pro experience in the SEL) , Skjei has 76 games or so with them. That's it. Nobody else on the roster came up through Hartford. One guy with over 82 games with them, two guys who came close to a full season.

I get that you're enthusiastic for Rangers prospects but you're evaluating them, and the system that's developing them, in a complete vacuum, without any context of what other teams systems are like and what their prospect pools look like. That's why your "takes" are so laughably hot (Matt Fraser).



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x10003q
Posted 2018-02-07 1:44 PM (#695568 - in reply to #695560)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks



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concust - 2018-02-07 1:51 PM

itsmcilrathtime - 2018-02-03 12:10 PM

This board has been consistent saying the farm sucks going back to the days when Lundqvist was in his early 20's. As we can see now, that was complete nonsense. However, for straight years of no first rounds and 2 with no second rounds is bound to screw you over for a while.


The farm team sucks because we don't put any talent into it. That's somewhat understandable, since we've traded away draft picks for years and had to make due with third round picks and smart amateur signings from NCAA and european leagues.

You point to the fact that the farm team graduates NHLers almost every year. I got news for you though - EVERY TEAM'S FARM SYSTEM DOES THIS. It's really not an accomplishment to graduate a Jesper Fast or a Dubinsky every year. These are table stakes. This is not special. If you looked at other team's farm systems you'd see the exact same thing.

The major difference is we don't have elite level prospect talent, and other teams do. This is why their systems are better. It's not a personal slight on the NYR, those teams generally drafted higher, and their prospect pools and farm systems are richer for it.

Look at NYR roster and point out all the Wolf Pack graduates. I don't mean the 6-game stint guys either, I mean the guys that developed there. JT Miller is one (101 games), Zuccarello (74 games) is sort of another (I'm being generous here given his pro experience in the SEL) , Skjei has 76 games or so with them. That's it. Nobody else on the roster came up through Hartford. One guy with over 82 games with them, two guys who came close to a full season.

I get that you're enthusiastic for Rangers prospects but you're evaluating them, and the system that's developing them, in a complete vacuum, without any context of what other teams systems are like and what their prospect pools look like. That's why your "takes" are so laughably hot (Matt Fraser).


Calling Dubinsky, with 735 games and 421 points "Table Stakes" is absurd. The 2004 draft also has Callahan, 681 games and Korpikoski with 609 games. That is not table stakes.

Using Wolf Pack grads on the NYR roster is a little disingenuous. So we are not counting Hank, Staal, Buch, Kreider, Hayes, and Vesey because they skipped the AHL? Also, McD had 38 games in Hartford and Fast had 59 games in Hartford. That's 11 guys on the roster who played their 1st game with the NYR and are still here. Not everybody comes through the AHL.

As you mentioned, the Rangers have rarely been in a top 10 slot, let alone a top 3 superstar slot. Have they traded away picks too often? Yes, but winning a round or 2 in the playoffs makes those #1 picks a bit of a crap shoot.



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concust
Posted 2018-02-08 7:07 AM (#695822 - in reply to #695568)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks



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x10003q - 2018-02-07 2:44 PM

concust - 2018-02-07 1:51 PM

itsmcilrathtime - 2018-02-03 12:10 PM

This board has been consistent saying the farm sucks going back to the days when Lundqvist was in his early 20's. As we can see now, that was complete nonsense. However, for straight years of no first rounds and 2 with no second rounds is bound to screw you over for a while.


The farm team sucks because we don't put any talent into it. That's somewhat understandable, since we've traded away draft picks for years and had to make due with third round picks and smart amateur signings from NCAA and european leagues.

You point to the fact that the farm team graduates NHLers almost every year. I got news for you though - EVERY TEAM'S FARM SYSTEM DOES THIS. It's really not an accomplishment to graduate a Jesper Fast or a Dubinsky every year. These are table stakes. This is not special. If you looked at other team's farm systems you'd see the exact same thing.

The major difference is we don't have elite level prospect talent, and other teams do. This is why their systems are better. It's not a personal slight on the NYR, those teams generally drafted higher, and their prospect pools and farm systems are richer for it.

Look at NYR roster and point out all the Wolf Pack graduates. I don't mean the 6-game stint guys either, I mean the guys that developed there. JT Miller is one (101 games), Zuccarello (74 games) is sort of another (I'm being generous here given his pro experience in the SEL) , Skjei has 76 games or so with them. That's it. Nobody else on the roster came up through Hartford. One guy with over 82 games with them, two guys who came close to a full season.

I get that you're enthusiastic for Rangers prospects but you're evaluating them, and the system that's developing them, in a complete vacuum, without any context of what other teams systems are like and what their prospect pools look like. That's why your "takes" are so laughably hot (Matt Fraser).


Calling Dubinsky, with 735 games and 421 points "Table Stakes" is absurd. The 2004 draft also has Callahan, 681 games and Korpikoski with 609 games. That is not table stakes.

Using Wolf Pack grads on the NYR roster is a little disingenuous. So we are not counting Hank, Staal, Buch, Kreider, Hayes, and Vesey because they skipped the AHL? Also, McD had 38 games in Hartford and Fast had 59 games in Hartford. That's 11 guys on the roster who played their 1st game with the NYR and are still here. Not everybody comes through the AHL.

As you mentioned, the Rangers have rarely been in a top 10 slot, let alone a top 3 superstar slot. Have they traded away picks too often? Yes, but winning a round or 2 in the playoffs makes those #1 picks a bit of a crap shoot.





These are absolutely table stakes. Tell you what, tell me how many elite players the Rangers have drafted/developed in the last 12 years. (That would include players up to and including their prime, age 30.) Then look at the other teams in the league and do the same thing. Considering the Rangers have zero I'd say other teams are drafting and developing better. Not a really difficult conclusion to draw.

The Rangers, or any other team, developing middle and bottom-6 talent is absolutely the minimum you need to even be competitive.
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robstones
Posted 2018-02-08 7:39 AM (#695823 - in reply to #695085)
Subject: Re: Well this team sucks



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What is considered elite level?

I feel like that term is exclusive to players like McDavid and Matthews..... the 1st and 2nd overall picks in drafts.....

Not only have The Rangers not had 1st round picks the past few years..... when they do, they're usually mid to late rounders.

Skjei, Miller, Kreider may not be elite, but they're damn good hockey players. Buchnevich and Duclair are pretty good NHLers, and still young. Lundqvist.

We'll see about Shestyorkin, Andersson, and Chytil.... Ronning and Gettinger.

Who knows what would have become of Cherepanov. Let us not forget he was eating the KHL alive before he passed away.

The Rangers have done just fine with what they've had to work with..... and done a good job of making up for their lack of picks in certain years with the college player signings and trades.

DeAngelo was a 1st round pick a year The Rangers didn't have a pick, for example.... tell me it wasn't a reason we traded for him...... for a guy we drafted: Stepan
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