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AV Fired Hoo Ray
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-04-11 7:38 PM (#703201 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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robstones
Posted 2018-04-11 8:01 PM (#703202 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Vegas is great at this.... what an opening
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-04-11 8:06 PM (#703203 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Lets see which Johnny Quick shows up
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-04-11 8:16 PM (#703204 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-11 10:45 PM (#703205 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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I don’t know who on Columbus decided William Karlsson was not worth keeping and they would expose him to Vegas, even after ponying up a first and a second. They did slide Clarksons contract to Vegas, but someone should be fired for letting Karlson get away. For the price they pa8d to protect players I’m sure they could have insisted on keeping Karlson.
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Mandar
Posted 2018-04-12 7:57 AM (#703207 - in reply to #703205)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Rranger - 2018-04-12 12:45 AM

I don’t know who on Columbus decided William Karlsson was not worth keeping and they would expose him to Vegas, even after ponying up a first and a second. They did slide Clarksons contract to Vegas, but someone should be fired for letting Karlson get away. For the price they pa8d to protect players I’m sure they could have insisted on keeping Karlson.


You must have some crystal ball there. His prior 2 seasons:

2015-16 - 81 games, 9 goals; 11 assists
2016-17 - 81 games, 6 goals; 19 assists

The guy had never scored more than 15 goals in any season anywhere. And you think someone on Columbus should be fired cause they couldn't predict that he would score almost 3 times more goals in this season than his prior two combined?

You need to share your magic crystal ball....lend it to Gorton for a bit.
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concust
Posted 2018-04-12 9:43 AM (#703209 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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The guy has almost a 24% shooting percentage. That's impossibly high and unsustainable. Which means a lot of his 40-something goals are luck. That's not to say they don't count, but just don't expect him to shoot 24% every year.

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concust
Posted 2018-04-12 9:44 AM (#703210 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Not only that but he only wins 48% FO so he sucks there too
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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-12 9:58 AM (#703211 - in reply to #703207)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Mandar - 2018-04-12 6:57 AM

Rranger - 2018-04-12 12:45 AM

I don’t know who on Columbus decided William Karlsson was not worth keeping and they would expose him to Vegas, even after ponying up a first and a second. They did slide Clarksons contract to Vegas, but someone should be fired for letting Karlson get away. For the price they pa8d to protect players I’m sure they could have insisted on keeping Karlson.


You must have some crystal ball there. His prior 2 seasons:

2015-16 - 81 games, 9 goals; 11 assists
2016-17 - 81 games, 6 goals; 19 assists

The guy had never scored more than 15 goals in any season anywhere. And you think someone on Columbus should be fired cause they couldn't predict that he would score almost 3 times more goals in this season than his prior two combined?

You need to share your magic crystal ball....lend it to Gorton for a bit.






I presume based on your moronic response, somewhere in my post you imagined you read "I said" he was going to score 40 some odd goals. So I didn't write anything where I'd have needed a crystal ball. You really need to respond to the written post, not some imaginary crap you dream up.
You sound like your the one that would fit in at Columbus if you think they use a crystal ball. Whether you know it or not, and obviously you don't, NHL teams hire the best talent assessors they can who's job is evaluate talent. Think about that for a second, they hire people to evaluate players present and, just for you their FUTURE potential. And here's the kicker that's all some of those people do. And just so you know they do it at all levels of professional sports, and they get paid really well to do it, and if they don't do it well they "gasp" get fired. . I'm a little surprised you haven't heard about it its not exactly new.
Columbus dropped the ball, end of story.
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Mandar
Posted 2018-04-12 10:19 AM (#703212 - in reply to #703211)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Rranger - 2018-04-12 11:58 AM

Mandar - 2018-04-12 6:57 AM

Rranger - 2018-04-12 12:45 AM

I don’t know who on Columbus decided William Karlsson was not worth keeping and they would expose him to Vegas, even after ponying up a first and a second. They did slide Clarksons contract to Vegas, but someone should be fired for letting Karlson get away. For the price they pa8d to protect players I’m sure they could have insisted on keeping Karlson.


You must have some crystal ball there. His prior 2 seasons:

2015-16 - 81 games, 9 goals; 11 assists
2016-17 - 81 games, 6 goals; 19 assists

The guy had never scored more than 15 goals in any season anywhere. And you think someone on Columbus should be fired cause they couldn't predict that he would score almost 3 times more goals in this season than his prior two combined?

You need to share your magic crystal ball....lend it to Gorton for a bit.


I presume based on your moronic response, somewhere in my post you imagined you read "I said" he was going to score 40 some odd goals. So I didn't write anything where I'd have needed a crystal ball. You really need to respond to the written post, not some imaginary crap you dream up.
You sound like your the one that would fit in at Columbus if you think they use a crystal ball. Whether you know it or not, and obviously you don't, NHL teams hire the best talent assessors they can who's job is evaluate talent. Think about that for a second, they hire people to evaluate players present and, just for you their FUTURE potential. And here's the kicker that's all some of those people do. And just so you know they do it at all levels of professional sports, and they get paid really well to do it, and if they don't do it well they "gasp" get fired. . I'm a little surprised you haven't heard about it its not exactly new.
Columbus dropped the ball, end of story.


First you said: "but someone should be fired for letting Karlson get away". Now you say...."So I didn't write anything where I'd have needed a crystal ball" and "their FUTURE potential".

Could one infer that you are saying that CBJ should have somehow known he had the FUTURE potential to have a 43 goal season when he never scored anywhere near that amount before? You babble about teams having personnel who do evaluations about players....are you of the opinion that other organizations would have seen this 43 goal potential? Your above blather must be one of the best Monday Morning Quarterbacking explanations of all time.

You must be one of those guys that get all the scores predicted correctly the day after the games are played. Pretty sharp.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-12 10:30 AM (#703213 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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So the pages don't get to long, and also so you can maybe keep up. I'll keep it short for you.

1) somebody's probably will get fired, or at the very least do some verbal stickhandling to keep their jobs.

2) Its their job, try to wrap your pea brain about that. They are talent evaluators.
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Mandar
Posted 2018-04-12 1:39 PM (#703215 - in reply to #703213)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Rranger - 2018-04-12 12:30 PM

So the pages don't get to long, and also so you can maybe keep up. I'll keep it short for you.

1) somebody's probably will get fired, or at the very least do some verbal stickhandling to keep their jobs.

2) Its their job, try to wrap your pea brain about that. They are talent evaluators.

In deference to your concern about bandwidth, I'll keep this short.

1) who's getting fired for not predicting the guy who scored 15 goals in his last 162 games with CBJ would get 43 for Vegas? The team astrologist?

2) Again I ask you...in your opinion, do you think that other teams would have predicted 43 goals from him? If so, then by all means....axe him. Your precious "talent evaluators" didn't seem to evaluate 43 from him....if there was, why weren't teams lining up to trade for him?

You're fighting a losing battle here. Or are you being obtuse, Warden?
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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-04-12 2:41 PM (#703216 - in reply to #703215)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Mandar - 2018-04-12 3:39 PM

You're fighting a losing battle here. Or are you being obtuse, Warden?


You do know you must pay royalties for using my verbiage.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-12 3:23 PM (#703217 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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I think I’ve solved your problem. It’s called reading and comprehension. Personally I think your just stupid, so I won’t blame the educational system where you grew up.
Which simply explains why you can’t comprehend the statements.

“”I don’t know who on Columbus decided William Karlsson was not worth keeping and they would expose him to Vegas.””””
“””” Someone should be fired for letting Karlsson get away”””

Is that really that hard to understand. Again the team talent evaluators missed the boat that’s the discussion, Karlsson could have scored 30 goals and up and my point would still stand, someone, ones underestimated this guys future. You got your head wrapped around anyone predicting 43 goals out of him which is probably an abnormally, but he did it and there is little doubt his days as a 15 goal scorer over two seasons are long gone. Columbus talent evaluators are PAID to predict that. The thing you don’t get and I’ve already concluded why, and it just keeps zipping over your head is the fact this guy had upside, Columbus missed it. I’m sure they could have added him to their trade generated side protected list, after all according to your crystal ball, why would Vegas want him. Forget about the total of 43 goals and wrap your melon around the fact the guy blossomed into a hell of a hockey player, and try to focus on the fact Columbus should have been able to conclude he might have some serious upside in his future. Somebody concluded he didn’t have enough to keep.
In your dream world J.D. and the Columbus GM are bumbling around babbling now that their was no way they could have predicted serious growth in Karlsson game. Great way to run a hockey team and manage expectations of the people who again are paid to evaluate.




Edited by Rranger 2018-04-12 5:47 PM
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Av-merican
Posted 2018-04-12 3:49 PM (#703218 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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My thoughts: I really think highly of AV as a coach but he clearly lost his way, especially this year, and the team just plain made bad decisions during his tenure.

I'm interested to see what they end up doing with the new coach. I thought it would be a given that Ruff gets the nod, but apparently not.

Hope springs eternal though. The team could surprise like it did the last time they "downsized" and roared into the postseason on the back of one rookie Swedish goalie. You never know...
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concust
Posted 2018-04-13 9:09 AM (#703222 - in reply to #703217)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Rranger - 2018-04-12 4:23 PM
Again the team talent evaluators missed the boat that’s the discussion, Karlsson could have scored 30 goals and up and my point would still stand, someone, ones underestimated this guys future.


All 30 teams passed on him in the first round. They all underestimated his potential.
Ducks then traded him away to CBJ, so they are doubly culpable, because he was their property and they underestimated his potential.
CBJ made an asset trade (which they probably regret), so they are also doubly culpable in underestimating his potential and their own asset.

So yes did CBJ underestimate his potential? Absolutely. So did every other team at some point. Then again no one sees 24% shooting percentages in the future. Hindsight sure is 20/20.

Wanna make a bet? I bet he scores fewer than 20 in 2018-19. What does your crystal ball say?

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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-13 10:30 AM (#703225 - in reply to #703222)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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concust - 2018-04-13 8:09 AM

Rranger - 2018-04-12 4:23 PM
Again the team talent evaluators missed the boat that’s the discussion, Karlsson could have scored 30 goals and up and my point would still stand, someone, ones underestimated this guys future.


All 30 teams passed on him in the first round. They all underestimated his potential.
Ducks then traded him away to CBJ, so they are doubly culpable, because he was their property and they underestimated his potential.
CBJ made an asset trade (which they probably regret), so they are also doubly culpable in underestimating his potential and their own asset.

So yes did CBJ underestimate his potential? Absolutely. So did every other team at some point. Then again no one sees 24% shooting percentages in the future. Hindsight sure is 20/20.

Wanna make a bet? I bet he scores fewer than 20 in 2018-19. What does your crystal ball say?








So now it was ok to move him because he wasn’t drafted in the first round. Right. Comparing his potential at draft age to his potential after a couple seasons in the NHL is ridiculous. Columbus had every opportunity to know what they had and missed the call. Ducks are also culpable because they traded him in a package for highly regarded at the time James Wasnewski, sure. Try to understand the difference between giving a guy away Columbus and trading a guy away Anaheim.
His assists this season were way above anything he’d done before also. So he’s not just some goal scorer who had a unlikely sustainable shooting % he also racked up 35 assists. I guess no one saw that either. But in your mind that was a fluke also and his line mates were udoubtably running around racking up career high shooting %’s to justify it.
If a team gets rid of a guy that racks up 43 goals and 35 assists the next season at 25 they need to review their player personnel people.
And I don’t need a crystal ball to see that.

Edited by Rranger 2018-04-13 11:33 AM
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RANGERNUT
Posted 2018-04-13 10:47 AM (#703229 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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AV will sign on with the Stars as their new coach now that Hitchcock has announced he is retiring....it's a lock
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DA71
Posted 2018-04-13 11:01 AM (#703230 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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I think he probably will sign with one of Canadian teams. Oilers, Flames, Ottawa. One thing is for sure he won't be without work for long.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-04-13 11:24 AM (#703231 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Caps rolled the dice with Grubauer...intertesting
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-04-13 11:56 AM (#703232 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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I have the Nashville game on from last night....now we have Women in the booth doing the commentating? awful
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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-13 12:10 PM (#703233 - in reply to #703231)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Mikey Red - 2018-04-13 10:24 AM

Caps rolled the dice with Grubauer...intertesting






Now what do they do?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-04-13 12:11 PM (#703234 - in reply to #703233)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Rranger - 2018-04-13 2:10 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-04-13 10:24 AM

Caps rolled the dice with Grubauer...intertesting






Now what do they do?

Yep...Very interesting
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LeetchyMrRanger
Posted 2018-04-13 1:24 PM (#703237 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/ask-me-anything-how-to-fi...
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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-04-13 4:20 PM (#703240 - in reply to #703225)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Rranger - 2018-04-13 12:30 PM

concust - 2018-04-13 8:09 AM

Rranger - 2018-04-12 4:23 PM
Again the team talent evaluators missed the boat that’s the discussion, Karlsson could have scored 30 goals and up and my point would still stand, someone, ones underestimated this guys future.


All 30 teams passed on him in the first round. They all underestimated his potential.
Ducks then traded him away to CBJ, so they are doubly culpable, because he was their property and they underestimated his potential.
CBJ made an asset trade (which they probably regret), so they are also doubly culpable in underestimating his potential and their own asset.

So yes did CBJ underestimate his potential? Absolutely. So did every other team at some point. Then again no one sees 24% shooting percentages in the future. Hindsight sure is 20/20.

Wanna make a bet? I bet he scores fewer than 20 in 2018-19. What does your crystal ball say?








So now it was ok to move him because he wasn’t drafted in the first round. Right. Comparing his potential at draft age to his potential after a couple seasons in the NHL is ridiculous. Columbus had every opportunity to know what they had and missed the call. Ducks are also culpable because they traded him in a package for highly regarded at the time James Wasnewski, sure. Try to understand the difference between giving a guy away Columbus and trading a guy away Anaheim.
His assists this season were way above anything he’d done before also. So he’s not just some goal scorer who had a unlikely sustainable shooting % he also racked up 35 assists. I guess no one saw that either. But in your mind that was a fluke also and his line mates were udoubtably running around racking up career high shooting %’s to justify it.
If a team gets rid of a guy that racks up 43 goals and 35 assists the next season at 25 they need to review their player personnel people.
And I don’t need a crystal ball to see that.


You're making it sound like something is wrong with the scout of every NHL team because no one saw that somewhere down the road, this player would rack up career numbers after two full seasons where he put up putrid numbers? What did these scouts miss?

I don't think there's a scout in the world who could have told you that he would go to LV and promptly put up those numbers. They would have to know in advance (a) that he was going to end up in Vegas and (b) they would have to know who his line mates would be as well as the type of system he'd be going to. Without this information, all anyone can do is make an educated guess based on the old "what have you done lately" theory....and from all accounts, everyone came to the same answer: "not much". I doubt LV management can admit with a straight fact that they knew what would happen.

Edited by Mjolnir 2018-04-13 4:22 PM
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DA71
Posted 2018-04-13 5:24 PM (#703242 - in reply to #702896)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Guys without taken anybody's side, do u think that he might be just one season wonder... True greatness can be accepted only if he would continue to play with the same results. Just a thought.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-13 6:07 PM (#703244 - in reply to #703240)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Mjolnir - 2018-04-13 3:20 PM

Rranger - 2018-04-13 12:30 PM

concust - 2018-04-13 8:09 AM

Rranger - 2018-04-12 4:23 PM
Again the team talent evaluators missed the boat that’s the discussion, Karlsson could have scored 30 goals and up and my point would still stand, someone, ones underestimated this guys future.


All 30 teams passed on him in the first round. They all underestimated his potential.
Ducks then traded him away to CBJ, so they are doubly culpable, because he was their property and they underestimated his potential.
CBJ made an asset trade (which they probably regret), so they are also doubly culpable in underestimating his potential and their own asset.

So yes did CBJ underestimate his potential? Absolutely. So did every other team at some point. Then again no one sees 24% shooting percentages in the future. Hindsight sure is 20/20.

Wanna make a bet? I bet he scores fewer than 20 in 2018-19. What does your crystal ball say?








So now it was ok to move him because he wasn’t drafted in the first round. Right. Comparing his potential at draft age to his potential after a couple seasons in the NHL is ridiculous. Columbus had every opportunity to know what they had and missed the call. Ducks are also culpable because they traded him in a package for highly regarded at the time James Wasnewski, sure. Try to understand the difference between giving a guy away Columbus and trading a guy away Anaheim.
His assists this season were way above anything he’d done before also. So he’s not just some goal scorer who had a unlikely sustainable shooting % he also racked up 35 assists. I guess no one saw that either. But in your mind that was a fluke also and his line mates were udoubtably running around racking up career high shooting %’s to justify it.
If a team gets rid of a guy that racks up 43 goals and 35 assists the next season at 25 they need to review their player personnel people.
And I don’t need a crystal ball to see that.


You're making it sound like something is wrong with the scout of every NHL team because no one saw that somewhere down the road, this player would rack up career numbers after two full seasons where he put up putrid numbers? What did these scouts miss?

I don't think there's a scout in the world who could have told you that he would go to LV and promptly put up those numbers. They would have to know in advance (a) that he was going to end up in Vegas and (b) they would have to know who his line mates would be as well as the type of system he'd be going to. Without this information, all anyone can do is make an educated guess based on the old "what have you done lately" theory....and from all accounts, everyone came to the same answer: "not much". I doubt LV management can admit with a straight fact that they knew what would happen.






What other scouts besides Columbus’s scouts were involved in the decision? That I am making it sound like something is wrong with every scout of every team, that’s your drama. The discussion is Columbus screwing up. They were the ones tchat gave him up. They gave Vegas a first round pick and a second pick to take David Clarksons contract off their hands and to control who Vegas picked. It was a laugher for Vegas, all the way to the bank even without a Karlsson. If Karlsson scored 20 goals and had 20 assists it still would have been larceny and still rank as one of McPhee’s better moves. Columbus missed the boat. It’s no different than drafting a Hugh Jessiman people are accountable.
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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-04-13 7:51 PM (#703246 - in reply to #703244)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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I'm not making any drama...concust stated clearly that all 30 teams passed on the first round, therefore all 30 teams (who I will assume had scouts) underestimated his potential.

Be that as it may, from the evidence available, CBJ based their decision on what seems to be general knowledge that all scouts had. Obviously, there was no indication that a change of scenery would work miracles (unless, as surmised above, you have a crystal ball and know something the scouts do not know or did not see).

If Karlsson scored 20 goals and had 20 assists it still would have been larceny and still rank as one of McPhee’s better moves.
[If this were true, do you really believe this (so-called) discussion would be taking place?

Edited by Mjolnir 2018-04-13 7:56 PM
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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-13 7:51 PM (#703247 - in reply to #703229)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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RANGERNUT - 2018-04-13 9:47 AM

AV will sign on with the Stars as their new coach now that Hitchcock has announced he is retiring....it's a lock






I think he waits to see what Edmonton does. And after all Chiarelli's misfires, it wouldn't surprise me to see another one. Build a heavy team and then bring in the figure skating coach.

Edited by Rranger 2018-04-14 8:32 AM
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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-04-13 7:57 PM (#703248 - in reply to #703242)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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DA71 - 2018-04-13 7:24 PM

Guys without taken anybody's side, do u think that he might be just one season wonder... True greatness can be accepted only if he would continue to play with the same results. Just a thought.


I would say that's the prevailing theory at the moment. You have to wonder just how much of the LGK's season is sustainable over the long haul.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-13 8:49 PM (#703250 - in reply to #703246)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Mjolnir - 2018-04-13 6:51 PM

I'm not making any drama...concust stated clearly that all 30 teams passed on the first round, therefore all 30 teams (who I will assume had scouts) underestimated his potential.

Be that as it may, from the evidence available, CBJ based their decision on what seems to be general knowledge that all scouts had. Obviously, there was no indication that a change of scenery would work miracles (unless, as surmised above, you have a crystal ball and know something the scouts do not know or did not see).

If Karlsson scored 20 goals and had 20 assists it still would have been larceny and still rank as one of McPhee’s better moves.
[If this were true, do you really believe this (so-called) discussion would be taking place?



To answer your question Yes the discussion is still there a first round pick a second round pick and a 40 point guy for money that’s irrelevant. Ya Columbus didn’t get bent over at all. The thing none of you admit is the possibility Vegas wanted Karlsson in the first place. Maybe their guys saw something. But oh no that wouldn’t fit your laughable theory all the scouts with the general knowledge in the NHL saw nothing in William Karlsson. Beauty.
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2018-04-14 5:15 AM (#703252 - in reply to #703217)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Rranger - 2018-04-12 5:23 PM
Personally I think your just stupid, so I won’t blame the educational system where you grew up.




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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-04-14 8:57 AM (#703253 - in reply to #703252)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray



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Lol Ugh I had to look away...my eyes hurt
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Rranger
Posted 2018-04-14 10:05 AM (#703254 - in reply to #703252)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Steady Eddie - 2018-04-14 4:15 AM

Rranger - 2018-04-12 5:23 PM
Personally I think your just stupid, so I won’t blame the educational system where you grew up.











Wise words.
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Blue404
Posted 2018-04-15 9:10 AM (#703255 - in reply to #703254)
Subject: Re: AV Fired Hoo Ray


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Rranger - 2018-04-14 12:05 PM

Steady Eddie - 2018-04-14 4:15 AM

Rranger - 2018-04-12 5:23 PM
Personally I think your just stupid, so I won’t blame the educational system where you grew up.










Wise words.


True colors.Is that Av in a shower room?

Edited by Blue404 2018-04-15 9:22 AM
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