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Vitali Kravtsov
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concust
Posted 2019-03-06 7:34 AM (#722204 - in reply to #722072)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov



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robstones - 2019-03-05 3:34 PM

Rykov went from being the 7th Dman for SKA to the top pair on Sochi
.. that's all I know about it. Pretty sure he leads the team in scoring too, at least for D


He doesn't but he plays a lot of minutes, got the most minutes on his team the last 2 playoff games I believe. Coach trusts him. (Coach is Sergei Zubov)
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2019-03-06 7:45 AM (#722205 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia
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Vua
Posted 2019-03-06 8:01 AM (#722206 - in reply to #722204)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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concust - 2019-03-06 7:34 AM

robstones - 2019-03-05 3:34 PM

Rykov went from being the 7th Dman for SKA to the top pair on Sochi
.. that's all I know about it. Pretty sure he leads the team in scoring too, at least for D


He doesn't but he plays a lot of minutes, got the most minutes on his team the last 2 playoff games I believe. Coach trusts him. (Coach is Sergei Zubov)


I read he's been credited with 4 hits in his 160 odd games. Is that even possible for a defenseman? I know the hit stat doesn't mean much but 4? Maybe that wasn't written correctly.

Edited by Vua 2019-03-06 8:02 AM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-06 9:31 AM (#722210 - in reply to #722205)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up
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Vua
Posted 2019-03-06 9:41 AM (#722211 - in reply to #722210)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-06 9:50 AM (#722212 - in reply to #722211)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


Legend

Posts: 20381
10000
Location: AV is gone
Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity
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concust
Posted 2019-03-06 9:59 AM (#722214 - in reply to #722206)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov



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Location: USA
Vua - 2019-03-06 9:01 AM

concust - 2019-03-06 7:34 AM

robstones - 2019-03-05 3:34 PM

Rykov went from being the 7th Dman for SKA to the top pair on Sochi
.. that's all I know about it. Pretty sure he leads the team in scoring too, at least for D


He doesn't but he plays a lot of minutes, got the most minutes on his team the last 2 playoff games I believe. Coach trusts him. (Coach is Sergei Zubov)


I read he's been credited with 4 hits in his 160 odd games. Is that even possible for a defenseman? I know the hit stat doesn't mean much but 4? Maybe that wasn't written correctly.


He just likes to pick his spots
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concust
Posted 2019-03-06 10:02 AM (#722215 - in reply to #722212)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov



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Posts: 15812
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Location: USA
Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 10:50 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity


Stats are used to give context to what you see, and vice versa. Relying on one or the other exclusively will give you a skewed view.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-06 10:06 AM (#722216 - in reply to #722212)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


Legend

Posts: 20381
10000
Location: AV is gone
Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 11:50 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity

Also the same people that when we were waiting for Hayes to be traded and Boston came up....said that we should be getting 2 of Donato Debrusk and Mcavoy plus a 1...or whatever other team...list their #1 prospects plus a 1.....stupid people
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robstones
Posted 2019-03-06 5:31 PM (#722225 - in reply to #722214)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov



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concust - 2019-03-06 11:59 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 9:01 AM

concust - 2019-03-06 7:34 AM

robstones - 2019-03-05 3:34 PM

Rykov went from being the 7th Dman for SKA to the top pair on Sochi
.. that's all I know about it. Pretty sure he leads the team in scoring too, at least for D


He doesn't but he plays a lot of minutes, got the most minutes on his team the last 2 playoff games I believe. Coach trusts him. (Coach is Sergei Zubov)


I read he's been credited with 4 hits in his 160 odd games. Is that even possible for a defenseman? I know the hit stat doesn't mean much but 4? Maybe that wasn't written correctly.


He just likes to pick his spots


I'm surprised they even log a hits stat in Russia

Edited by robstones 2019-03-06 6:05 PM
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robstones
Posted 2019-03-06 6:04 PM (#722226 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov



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Vasily Podkolzin was ranked to go 3rd overall, but is now said to fall in the draft because apparently has made comments about being unsure of he wants to play in the NHL.... so if The Rangers don't get in the top 2 he very well may be available

The rest of our Red Army could be enticing enough for him to come over.

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Rranger
Posted 2019-03-06 9:53 PM (#722228 - in reply to #722215)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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concust - 2019-03-06 9:02 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 10:50 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity


Stats are used to give context to what you see, and vice versa. Relying on one or the other exclusively will give you a skewed view.




Nobody in the hockey business uses only stats or only watching games. They both have to be used together. But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively. And then go watch him play Ranger games and surprise, he makes lots of mistakes. His Ranger defensive gaffes like his last game played, getting torched off the wall by his check who then carried the puck to the the net for a easy score, happen all to often. And probably had something to do with him sitting last game. It's no surprise he is making the same mistakes he undoubtedly was in Hartford where his plus/minus indicated there was a issue. Backed up by his previous NHL stints where he struggled big time blowing defensive assignments and multiple turnovers game after game. Only noticed on here when a goal is scored. Scouts are charting every shift, turnover, hit, shot, positive and negative plays players make every shift, period and game. I'm sure Anderssons game charts had lots to do with his spending a lot more time in Hartford than anticipated. Go figure.


Edited by Rranger 2019-03-06 11:12 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-07 6:59 AM (#722232 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Posts: 20381
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Location: AV is gone
Developments...

Aivis Kalninš
?

@A_Kalnins
Follow Follow @A_Kalnins
More
Traktor Chelyabinsk are willing to comply with NY Rangers and release Kravtsov so he could join them ASAP. Here is a statement from teams website.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-07 7:00 AM (#722233 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Location: AV is gone
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D1DmocnWsAco_Ae.png:large
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Rranger
Posted 2019-03-07 7:17 AM (#722234 - in reply to #722232)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Posts: 6801
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Mikey Red - 2019-03-07 5:59 AM

Developments...

Aivis Kalninš
?

@A_Kalnins
Follow Follow @A_Kalnins
More
Traktor Chelyabinsk are willing to comply with NY Rangers and release Kravtsov so he could join them ASAP. Here is a statement from teams website.




Good get him over here even if its just to start getting acclimated off ice. If he can play some games without having to be protected for the next expansion draft all the better.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-07 7:23 AM (#722235 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Posts: 20381
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Location: AV is gone
Definitely!
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Vua
Posted 2019-03-07 7:57 AM (#722236 - in reply to #722228)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Posts: 2021
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Rranger - 2019-03-06 9:53 PM

concust - 2019-03-06 9:02 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 10:50 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity


Stats are used to give context to what you see, and vice versa. Relying on one or the other exclusively will give you a skewed view.




Nobody in the hockey business uses only stats or only watching games. They both have to be used together. But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively. And then go watch him play Ranger games and surprise, he makes lots of mistakes. His Ranger defensive gaffes like his last game played, getting torched off the wall by his check who then carried the puck to the the net for a easy score, happen all to often. And probably had something to do with him sitting last game. It's no surprise he is making the same mistakes he undoubtedly was in Hartford where his plus/minus indicated there was a issue. Backed up by his previous NHL stints where he struggled big time blowing defensive assignments and multiple turnovers game after game. Only noticed on here when a goal is scored. Scouts are charting every shift, turnover, hit, shot, positive and negative plays players make every shift, period and game. I'm sure Anderssons game charts had lots to do with his spending a lot more time in Hartford than anticipated. Go figure.


What do you mean in the business? We're talking fans that post. You don't think there are fans and bloggers that use stats to the exclusion of everything else or did you just miss the initial comment?
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Rranger
Posted 2019-03-07 8:56 AM (#722238 - in reply to #722236)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Posts: 6801
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Vua - 2019-03-07 6:57 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-06 9:53 PM

concust - 2019-03-06 9:02 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 10:50 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity


Stats are used to give context to what you see, and vice versa. Relying on one or the other exclusively will give you a skewed view.




Nobody in the hockey business uses only stats or only watching games. They both have to be used together. But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively. And then go watch him play Ranger games and surprise, he makes lots of mistakes. His Ranger defensive gaffes like his last game played, getting torched off the wall by his check who then carried the puck to the the net for a easy score, happen all to often. And probably had something to do with him sitting last game. It's no surprise he is making the same mistakes he undoubtedly was in Hartford where his plus/minus indicated there was a issue. Backed up by his previous NHL stints where he struggled big time blowing defensive assignments and multiple turnovers game after game. Only noticed on here when a goal is scored. Scouts are charting every shift, turnover, hit, shot, positive and negative plays players make every shift, period and game. I'm sure Anderssons game charts had lots to do with his spending a lot more time in Hartford than anticipated. Go figure.


What do you mean in the business? We're talking fans that post. You don't think there are fans and bloggers that use stats to the exclusion of everything else or did you just miss the initial comment?




This is part of a previous discussion Concust and I had. Nothing to do with you or we're. Its why I addressed his post and not anyone elses. I think that's pretty obvious.
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Vua
Posted 2019-03-07 9:09 AM (#722241 - in reply to #722238)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Posts: 2021
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Rranger - 2019-03-07 8:56 AM

Vua - 2019-03-07 6:57 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-06 9:53 PM

concust - 2019-03-06 9:02 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 10:50 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity


Stats are used to give context to what you see, and vice versa. Relying on one or the other exclusively will give you a skewed view.




Nobody in the hockey business uses only stats or only watching games. They both have to be used together. But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively. And then go watch him play Ranger games and surprise, he makes lots of mistakes. His Ranger defensive gaffes like his last game played, getting torched off the wall by his check who then carried the puck to the the net for a easy score, happen all to often. And probably had something to do with him sitting last game. It's no surprise he is making the same mistakes he undoubtedly was in Hartford where his plus/minus indicated there was a issue. Backed up by his previous NHL stints where he struggled big time blowing defensive assignments and multiple turnovers game after game. Only noticed on here when a goal is scored. Scouts are charting every shift, turnover, hit, shot, positive and negative plays players make every shift, period and game. I'm sure Anderssons game charts had lots to do with his spending a lot more time in Hartford than anticipated. Go figure.


What do you mean in the business? We're talking fans that post. You don't think there are fans and bloggers that use stats to the exclusion of everything else or did you just miss the initial comment?




This is part of a previous discussion Concust and I had. Nothing to do with you or we're. Its why I addressed his post and not anyone elses. I think that's pretty obvious.


It's pretty obvious to who when you quote a conversation about posters on a site and talk about something else? Why wouldn't you quote the previous conversation you were having then? Your thinking is wrong.
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Rranger
Posted 2019-03-07 9:31 AM (#722244 - in reply to #722241)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


MVP

Posts: 6801
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Vua - 2019-03-07 8:09 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-07 8:56 AM

Vua - 2019-03-07 6:57 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-06 9:53 PM

concust - 2019-03-06 9:02 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 10:50 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity


Stats are used to give context to what you see, and vice versa. Relying on one or the other exclusively will give you a skewed view.




Nobody in the hockey business uses only stats or only watching games. They both have to be used together. But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively. And then go watch him play Ranger games and surprise, he makes lots of mistakes. His Ranger defensive gaffes like his last game played, getting torched off the wall by his check who then carried the puck to the the net for a easy score, happen all to often. And probably had something to do with him sitting last game. It's no surprise he is making the same mistakes he undoubtedly was in Hartford where his plus/minus indicated there was a issue. Backed up by his previous NHL stints where he struggled big time blowing defensive assignments and multiple turnovers game after game. Only noticed on here when a goal is scored. Scouts are charting every shift, turnover, hit, shot, positive and negative plays players make every shift, period and game. I'm sure Anderssons game charts had lots to do with his spending a lot more time in Hartford than anticipated. Go figure.


What do you mean in the business? We're talking fans that post. You don't think there are fans and bloggers that use stats to the exclusion of everything else or did you just miss the initial comment?




This is part of a previous discussion Concust and I had. Nothing to do with you or we're. Its why I addressed his post and not anyone elses. I think that's pretty obvious.


It's pretty obvious to who when you quote a conversation about posters on a site and talk about something else? Why wouldn't you quote the previous conversation you were having then? Your thinking is wrong.





I'm paying a termite guy $200 for some cleanup. So I needed a good laugh. Thanks.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-07 9:42 AM (#722245 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


Legend

Posts: 20381
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Location: AV is gone
Illegal termites?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-07 9:43 AM (#722246 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


Legend

Posts: 20381
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Location: AV is gone
Hockey Central gonna let the Leafs have it today
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concust
Posted 2019-03-07 9:53 AM (#722247 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov



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I was talking about fans. Rranger is the one that tied it back to previous conversation about Andersson, who we were not talking about in this thread.

But since he brought it up,

But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively.


Apparently you have made that assumption, and ironically it runs counter to what I said about using stats and what you see to provide context for each other, so you must disagree and think that you can draw conclusions from seeing AHL plus minus and drawing conclusions?

I don't really know why I'm arguing with someone that uses plus minus as an analogue for defensive proficiency but I also need a good laugh.

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Vua
Posted 2019-03-07 11:18 AM (#722248 - in reply to #722244)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


All-Star

Posts: 2021
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Rranger - 2019-03-07 9:31 AM

Vua - 2019-03-07 8:09 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-07 8:56 AM

Vua - 2019-03-07 6:57 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-06 9:53 PM

concust - 2019-03-06 9:02 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 10:50 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity


Stats are used to give context to what you see, and vice versa. Relying on one or the other exclusively will give you a skewed view.




Nobody in the hockey business uses only stats or only watching games. They both have to be used together. But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively. And then go watch him play Ranger games and surprise, he makes lots of mistakes. His Ranger defensive gaffes like his last game played, getting torched off the wall by his check who then carried the puck to the the net for a easy score, happen all to often. And probably had something to do with him sitting last game. It's no surprise he is making the same mistakes he undoubtedly was in Hartford where his plus/minus indicated there was a issue. Backed up by his previous NHL stints where he struggled big time blowing defensive assignments and multiple turnovers game after game. Only noticed on here when a goal is scored. Scouts are charting every shift, turnover, hit, shot, positive and negative plays players make every shift, period and game. I'm sure Anderssons game charts had lots to do with his spending a lot more time in Hartford than anticipated. Go figure.


What do you mean in the business? We're talking fans that post. You don't think there are fans and bloggers that use stats to the exclusion of everything else or did you just miss the initial comment?




This is part of a previous discussion Concust and I had. Nothing to do with you or we're. Its why I addressed his post and not anyone elses. I think that's pretty obvious.


It's pretty obvious to who when you quote a conversation about posters on a site and talk about something else? Why wouldn't you quote the previous conversation you were having then? Your thinking is wrong.





I'm paying a termite guy $200 for some cleanup. So I needed a good laugh. Thanks.


Well termites had about as much to do with the conversation as your comment did so why not. While we're not on this subject, the cooling pump on my computer went and the hoses on the replacement were really long and hard to squeeze into the case. Keep that in mind if you have to replace yours.
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concust
Posted 2019-03-07 11:28 AM (#722249 - in reply to #722248)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov



Legend

Posts: 15812
10000
Location: USA
Vua - 2019-03-07 12:18 PM

Rranger - 2019-03-07 9:31 AM

Vua - 2019-03-07 8:09 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-07 8:56 AM

Vua - 2019-03-07 6:57 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-06 9:53 PM

concust - 2019-03-06 9:02 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 10:50 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 11:41 AM

Mikey Red - 2019-03-06 9:31 AM

Rangerjunkie - 2019-03-06 9:45 AM

Get Rykov here and send Shattenkirk to Russia

Other websites have plenty of posters that think 22 is a good player.....can't make this up


Those are people that watch hockey through spreadsheets. I like the stats, but they have to be used in context.

Yep...it's insanity


Stats are used to give context to what you see, and vice versa. Relying on one or the other exclusively will give you a skewed view.




Nobody in the hockey business uses only stats or only watching games. They both have to be used together. But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively. And then go watch him play Ranger games and surprise, he makes lots of mistakes. His Ranger defensive gaffes like his last game played, getting torched off the wall by his check who then carried the puck to the the net for a easy score, happen all to often. And probably had something to do with him sitting last game. It's no surprise he is making the same mistakes he undoubtedly was in Hartford where his plus/minus indicated there was a issue. Backed up by his previous NHL stints where he struggled big time blowing defensive assignments and multiple turnovers game after game. Only noticed on here when a goal is scored. Scouts are charting every shift, turnover, hit, shot, positive and negative plays players make every shift, period and game. I'm sure Anderssons game charts had lots to do with his spending a lot more time in Hartford than anticipated. Go figure.


What do you mean in the business? We're talking fans that post. You don't think there are fans and bloggers that use stats to the exclusion of everything else or did you just miss the initial comment?




This is part of a previous discussion Concust and I had. Nothing to do with you or we're. Its why I addressed his post and not anyone elses. I think that's pretty obvious.


It's pretty obvious to who when you quote a conversation about posters on a site and talk about something else? Why wouldn't you quote the previous conversation you were having then? Your thinking is wrong.





I'm paying a termite guy $200 for some cleanup. So I needed a good laugh. Thanks.


Well termites had about as much to do with the conversation as your comment did so why not. While we're not on this subject, the cooling pump on my computer went and the hoses on the replacement were really long and hard to squeeze into the case. Keep that in mind if you have to replace yours.


Make sure you get that cooling system hooked back up cause there's nothing but hot takes in here.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2019-03-07 12:00 PM (#722250 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


Legend

Posts: 20381
10000
Location: AV is gone
Rykovs team has been eliminated
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Gravey09
Posted 2019-03-07 12:31 PM (#722251 - in reply to #722225)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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robstones - 2019-03-06 5:31 PM

concust - 2019-03-06 11:59 AM

Vua - 2019-03-06 9:01 AM

concust - 2019-03-06 7:34 AM

robstones - 2019-03-05 3:34 PM

Rykov went from being the 7th Dman for SKA to the top pair on Sochi
.. that's all I know about it. Pretty sure he leads the team in scoring too, at least for D


He doesn't but he plays a lot of minutes, got the most minutes on his team the last 2 playoff games I believe. Coach trusts him. (Coach is Sergei Zubov)


I read he's been credited with 4 hits in his 160 odd games. Is that even possible for a defenseman? I know the hit stat doesn't mean much but 4? Maybe that wasn't written correctly.


He just likes to pick his spots


I'm surprised they even log a hits stat in Russia


Maybe in Russia hits means murders ? Even guys like Redden, and Yandle could post more body checks than that!
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Rranger
Posted 2019-03-07 7:46 PM (#722324 - in reply to #722247)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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concust - 2019-03-07 8:53 AM

I was talking about fans. Rranger is the one that tied it back to previous conversation about Andersson, who we were not talking about in this thread.

But since he brought it up,

But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively.


Apparently you have made that assumption, and ironically it runs counter to what I said about using stats and what you see to provide context for each other, so you must disagree and think that you can draw conclusions from seeing AHL plus minus and drawing conclusions?

I don't really know why I'm arguing with someone that uses plus minus as an analogue for defensive proficiency but I also need a good laugh.




Make up your mind what your talking about I'm talking about the assumptions based on his plus/minus stats in Hartford that he must suck defensively, and after watching him since he's been called up the assumption he sucks defensively has been proven and concluded. The rest of your post is babble and twisting words.
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concust
Posted 2019-03-08 8:22 AM (#722355 - in reply to #722324)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov



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Rranger - 2019-03-07 8:46 PM

concust - 2019-03-07 8:53 AM

I was talking about fans. Rranger is the one that tied it back to previous conversation about Andersson, who we were not talking about in this thread.

But since he brought it up,

But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively.


Apparently you have made that assumption, and ironically it runs counter to what I said about using stats and what you see to provide context for each other, so you must disagree and think that you can draw conclusions from seeing AHL plus minus and drawing conclusions?

I don't really know why I'm arguing with someone that uses plus minus as an analogue for defensive proficiency but I also need a good laugh.




Make up your mind what your talking about I'm talking about the assumptions based on his plus/minus stats in Hartford that he must suck defensively, and after watching him since he's been called up the assumption he sucks defensively has been proven and concluded. The rest of your post is babble and twisting words.


If you want to say "i've watched his games and I think he sucks defensively" then that's your right, I won't argue with that. I may disagree, but it's fair for you to make your own assessments.

However you're the one that assumed that he was bad defensively in the AHL based on plus minus, having not seen his play, and that's what i'm criticizing you for, and that's what I mean by saying that stats provide context to what you see and vice versa. You don't watch the AHL games but you look at plus minus, a flawed stat to begin with, and then you misinterpret what it means. So yeah I'm going to call you out on that.

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Rranger
Posted 2019-03-08 8:55 AM (#722358 - in reply to #722355)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Posts: 6801
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concust - 2019-03-08 7:22 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-07 8:46 PM

concust - 2019-03-07 8:53 AM

I was talking about fans. Rranger is the one that tied it back to previous conversation about Andersson, who we were not talking about in this thread.

But since he brought it up,

But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively.


Apparently you have made that assumption, and ironically it runs counter to what I said about using stats and what you see to provide context for each other, so you must disagree and think that you can draw conclusions from seeing AHL plus minus and drawing conclusions?

I don't really know why I'm arguing with someone that uses plus minus as an analogue for defensive proficiency but I also need a good laugh.




Make up your mind what your talking about I'm talking about the assumptions based on his plus/minus stats in Hartford that he must suck defensively, and after watching him since he's been called up the assumption he sucks defensively has been proven and concluded. The rest of your post is babble and twisting words.


If you want to say "i've watched his games and I think he sucks defensively" then that's your right, I won't argue with that. I may disagree, but it's fair for you to make your own assessments.

However you're the one that assumed that he was bad defensively in the AHL based on plus minus, having not seen his play, and that's what i'm criticizing you for, and that's what I mean by saying that stats provide context to what you see and vice versa. You don't watch the AHL games but you look at plus minus, a flawed stat to begin with, and then you misinterpret what it means. So yeah I'm going to call you out on that.






As I have said repeatedly, I look at the Hartford stats and make a ASSUMPTION that Andersson is bad defrensively. But you still have to see him play to confirm the ASSUMPTION. With Andersson anyone who watched his previous Ranger stints would be predisposed to him struggling defensively because he did. After watching his latest Ranger callup games I conclude his defense is still bad.
I assume You would agree if you see Joe Schmoe has 35 goals in 25 games in Hartford and gets called up to the Rangers, one would assume he can score. But he still has it to do. Just like Andersson has to play through the logical assumption he has defensive issues based on his Hartford numbers.
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Vua
Posted 2019-03-08 10:19 AM (#722365 - in reply to #722358)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Rranger - 2019-03-08 8:55 AM

concust - 2019-03-08 7:22 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-07 8:46 PM

concust - 2019-03-07 8:53 AM

I was talking about fans. Rranger is the one that tied it back to previous conversation about Andersson, who we were not talking about in this thread.

But since he brought it up,

But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively.


Apparently you have made that assumption, and ironically it runs counter to what I said about using stats and what you see to provide context for each other, so you must disagree and think that you can draw conclusions from seeing AHL plus minus and drawing conclusions?

I don't really know why I'm arguing with someone that uses plus minus as an analogue for defensive proficiency but I also need a good laugh.




Make up your mind what your talking about I'm talking about the assumptions based on his plus/minus stats in Hartford that he must suck defensively, and after watching him since he's been called up the assumption he sucks defensively has been proven and concluded. The rest of your post is babble and twisting words.


If you want to say "i've watched his games and I think he sucks defensively" then that's your right, I won't argue with that. I may disagree, but it's fair for you to make your own assessments.

However you're the one that assumed that he was bad defensively in the AHL based on plus minus, having not seen his play, and that's what i'm criticizing you for, and that's what I mean by saying that stats provide context to what you see and vice versa. You don't watch the AHL games but you look at plus minus, a flawed stat to begin with, and then you misinterpret what it means. So yeah I'm going to call you out on that.






As I have said repeatedly, I look at the Hartford stats and make a ASSUMPTION that Andersson is bad defrensively. But you still have to see him play to confirm the ASSUMPTION. With Andersson anyone who watched his previous Ranger stints would be predisposed to him struggling defensively because he did. After watching his latest Ranger callup games I conclude his defense is still bad.
I assume You would agree if you see Joe Schmoe has 35 goals in 25 games in Hartford and gets called up to the Rangers, one would assume he can score. But he still has it to do. Just like Andersson has to play through the logical assumption he has defensive issues based on his Hartford numbers.


When the team is -40 in goal differential you shouldn't assume someone's -24 or whatever is a result of being bad defensively. He may be, but your first assumption should be that the team is bad and the players with the worst +/- are the ones pressing for the tying goal with the goalie pulled and have a bunch of empty netters making the stat look worse.

You may have context now and be correct, but just looking at his +/- on a bad AHL team tells you nothing about his performance. If he's -24 and the team has a goal differential of +40 then you can rightly assume a problem. I guess you can assume anything you want but...
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concust
Posted 2019-03-08 11:09 AM (#722367 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov



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Assuming anything based on plus minus is just a bad assumption. For example, I shouldn't need to explain that "wins" for a goaltender is pretty useless. It's a team stat that, sure, the goalie contributes to, but it's horribly incorrect to say more wins = better goalie. Even GAA, while better, is a product of much more than a goalie's ability. You simply can't draw a direct conclusion, or even an ASSUMPTION, that is the case. Plus minus is even worse and has even less correlation to a player's defensive abilities, yet here we are.

Literally just google "why is plus minus a bad stat" and read some of the dozens of articles out there. Or if you want to be dismissive and say that internet hockey bloggers don't know anything, maybe listen to Brian Burke who called it a "horse sh!t stat." (He's "in the hockey business.")

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Rranger
Posted 2019-03-08 5:52 PM (#722382 - in reply to #722365)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Vua - 2019-03-08 9:19 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-08 8:55 AM

concust - 2019-03-08 7:22 AM

Rranger - 2019-03-07 8:46 PM

concust - 2019-03-07 8:53 AM

I was talking about fans. Rranger is the one that tied it back to previous conversation about Andersson, who we were not talking about in this thread.

But since he brought it up,

But that doesn't mean for example, without watching Anderson play in Hartford, but seeing his terrible plus/ minus stats, compared to all but a couple Hartford teammates, that you can't make a assumption he is not good defensively.


Apparently you have made that assumption, and ironically it runs counter to what I said about using stats and what you see to provide context for each other, so you must disagree and think that you can draw conclusions from seeing AHL plus minus and drawing conclusions?

I don't really know why I'm arguing with someone that uses plus minus as an analogue for defensive proficiency but I also need a good laugh.




Make up your mind what your talking about I'm talking about the assumptions based on his plus/minus stats in Hartford that he must suck defensively, and after watching him since he's been called up the assumption he sucks defensively has been proven and concluded. The rest of your post is babble and twisting words.


If you want to say "i've watched his games and I think he sucks defensively" then that's your right, I won't argue with that. I may disagree, but it's fair for you to make your own assessments.

However you're the one that assumed that he was bad defensively in the AHL based on plus minus, having not seen his play, and that's what i'm criticizing you for, and that's what I mean by saying that stats provide context to what you see and vice versa. You don't watch the AHL games but you look at plus minus, a flawed stat to begin with, and then you misinterpret what it means. So yeah I'm going to call you out on that.






As I have said repeatedly, I look at the Hartford stats and make a ASSUMPTION that Andersson is bad defrensively. But you still have to see him play to confirm the ASSUMPTION. With Andersson anyone who watched his previous Ranger stints would be predisposed to him struggling defensively because he did. After watching his latest Ranger callup games I conclude his defense is still bad.
I assume You would agree if you see Joe Schmoe has 35 goals in 25 games in Hartford and gets called up to the Rangers, one would assume he can score. But he still has it to do. Just like Andersson has to play through the logical assumption he has defensive issues based on his Hartford numbers.


When the team is -40 in goal differential you shouldn't assume someone's -24 or whatever is a result of being bad defensively. He may be, but your first assumption should be that the team is bad and the players with the worst +/- are the ones pressing for the tying goal with the goalie pulled and have a bunch of empty netters making the stat look worse.

You may have context now and be correct, but just looking at his +/- on a bad AHL team tells you nothing about his performance. If he's -24 and the team has a goal differential of +40 then you can rightly assume a problem. I guess you can assume anything you want but...





When the team is minus 40 and the only forwards with ridiculous +/- are the immortal Bobby Butler and Lias Andersson at -24 and the next worst are only minus 13 then minus 11, I will make a asumption his defense bears watching, which is a assumption. And then watch to see why, if in fact its him or circumstances. I have watched him closely since he came back up and its him. Unlike like your assumption that he's on the ice for empty net goals against, which is your unsubstantiated assumption, otherwise known as hot air. But its ok for you to assume, but not others. Lol. Sure I get it.
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Rranger
Posted 2019-03-08 6:12 PM (#722383 - in reply to #722367)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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Posts: 6801
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concust - 2019-03-08 10:09 AM

Assuming anything based on plus minus is just a bad assumption. For example, I shouldn't need to explain that "wins" for a goaltender is pretty useless. It's a team stat that, sure, the goalie contributes to, but it's horribly incorrect to say more wins = better goalie. Even GAA, while better, is a product of much more than a goalie's ability. You simply can't draw a direct conclusion, or even an ASSUMPTION, that is the case. Plus minus is even worse and has even less correlation to a player's defensive abilities, yet here we are.

Literally just google "why is plus minus a bad stat" and read some of the dozens of articles out there. Or if you want to be dismissive and say that internet hockey bloggers don't know anything, maybe listen to Brian Burke who called it a "horse sh!t stat." (He's "in the hockey business."







Your making it sound like I've said its the be all end all, and I've never said that always quantified it by saying viewing the player was necessary to make a conclusion. I'm not sure what part of that your missing. The difference in plus minus between the immortal Bobby Butler and Andersson and other forwards is very hefty. Another tell in the use of statistics. When players stats deviate from the group. And you can use stats any way that you want, I don't mind forming assumptions on players before seeing them using stats and then have a bit of a gameplan of what I'm looking for in a player. That was the discussion, Andersson being a pretty good example was used. And yes Brian Burke has more than a couple player agents laughing their ass off that +/- is a horse**** stat never used by him in a contract negotiation.

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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2019-03-09 7:40 AM (#722387 - in reply to #707190)
Subject: Re: Vitali Kravtsov


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+/- is one thing, I'm more concerned about his offensive output, or lack of at the AHL level. To me this is much more troublesome..........
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