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Projected Line-up per Brooks
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Mjolnir
Posted 2018-08-10 11:30 PM (#708647 - in reply to #708646)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Mikey Red - 2018-08-10 10:31 PM

You cant have 2 favorite teams


Who said anything about favorites?
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DaTeL
Posted 2018-08-11 1:58 AM (#708648 - in reply to #708646)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 4:31 AM

You cant have 2 favorite teams

Says someone who claims to be a fan but constantly rips the team for everything and spreads doom-and-gloom all the time.

Let's just not tell people how they should or shouldn't be a fan or root for team(s) they love.

Deal?
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DaTeL
Posted 2018-08-11 2:16 AM (#708649 - in reply to #708640)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 3:01 AM

Yep.....It goes further back than that... Heatl and Lias are absolutely NOT a thumbs up yet....Let's hope....JT was not as good as his pick spot...he was not a top 6 forward...a playoff failure...and we got rid of him...fail....Brady Skjei I like but the jury absolutely is still out on him...He sucked last year...You correct everywhere else

Claim whatever you want about J. T. Miller.
I'm definitely not a fan of his.
But the facts are clear -- at the age of 25, he's got:
190 points in 360 regular season games
24 points in 57 playoff games
new 5-year contract worth 5.25 MM with modified NMC

Plus he was good enough to be put on loaded Tampa team's first line.

Is he a Karlsson caliber player? Heck no.
But he's right up there on this list if you take the post-lockout era:
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/draft_by_pick.php?position=15

So overall, hardly an underachieving #15 overall pick.


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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 5:56 AM (#708650 - in reply to #708648)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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DaTeL - 2018-08-11 3:58 AM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 4:31 AM

You cant have 2 favorite teams

Says someone who claims to be a fan but constantly rips the team for everything and spreads doom-and-gloom all the time.

Let's just not tell people how they should or shouldn't be a fan or root for team(s) they love.

Deal?

1 SC since the end of WWII....4 SC in 91 years existence
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x10003q
Posted 2018-08-11 6:48 AM (#708651 - in reply to #708638)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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robstones - 2018-08-10 8:49 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-10 8:45 AM

DaTeL - 2018-08-10 1:08 AM

I don't expect that every 1st round pick pans out.

I don't expect to find a franchise goalie in the 7th round.

And I definitely don't expect to draft the only and biggest dog in the first round.


How about 50% of the 1st rounders?


Marc Staal
Bobby Sanguinetti
Alex Cherepanov
MDZ
Chris Kreiider
Dylan McIlrath
JT Miller
Brady Skjei
Filip Chytil
Lias Andersson

Those are the last 10 first rounders not including this year's. Chytil and Andersson aren't proven yet, but they're certainly not busts.... that title can be given to 3.... 30% of the past 10 first rounders can be considered busts.

Cherepanov would probably be the best NHLer of all of them, but that's still 60% success rate.

We.could go back further in our draft history to try to make your 50% claim true, but I like the results lately.


MDZ is not a bust and its not even close.This guy is a full on 2nd/3rd pair NHL d-man.
As a Ranger - 292 games and 121 points
He brought back Kevin Klein in the trade
He is still playing in the NHL - 566 games, 211 points, career avg of 20:40 a night, just turned 28

and don't forget, McIlrath trashed his knee before he got to the Rangers


Edited by x10003q 2018-08-11 6:50 AM
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Go NYR
Posted 2018-08-11 7:48 AM (#708652 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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I say what I said a few days ago, we are not the best drafting team and we are not the worst. We are middle of the road when you factor in many early picks traded going for it.

I'd also say let's focus on the Clark era. Going back years and years accomplishes what exactly...that the guys here before him had bad misses also...and are now gone. Okay...at some point you need to move forward and focus on the somewhat recent past and future.

Round and round we can go, but at days end Clark's legacy will be 95% tied to the 1st round picks we made in 2017 and 2018 (5 all in) and some of the other early picks we had in those two drafts. So we'll see over the next 2 or 3 seasons.





Edited by Go NYR 2018-08-11 7:50 AM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 7:53 AM (#708653 - in reply to #708651)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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x10003q - 2018-08-11 8:48 AM

robstones - 2018-08-10 8:49 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-10 8:45 AM

DaTeL - 2018-08-10 1:08 AM

I don't expect that every 1st round pick pans out.

I don't expect to find a franchise goalie in the 7th round.

And I definitely don't expect to draft the only and biggest dog in the first round.


How about 50% of the 1st rounders?


Marc Staal
Bobby Sanguinetti
Alex Cherepanov
MDZ
Chris Kreiider
Dylan McIlrath
JT Miller
Brady Skjei
Filip Chytil
Lias Andersson

Those are the last 10 first rounders not including this year's. Chytil and Andersson aren't proven yet, but they're certainly not busts.... that title can be given to 3.... 30% of the past 10 first rounders can be considered busts.

Cherepanov would probably be the best NHLer of all of them, but that's still 60% success rate.

We.could go back further in our draft history to try to make your 50% claim true, but I like the results lately.


MDZ is not a bust and its not even close.This guy is a full on 2nd/3rd pair NHL d-man.
As a Ranger - 292 games and 121 points
He brought back Kevin Klein in the trade
He is still playing in the NHL - 566 games, 211 points, career avg of 20:40 a night, just turned 28

and don't forget, McIlrath trashed his knee before he got to the Rangers

Del Zotto is 28 and on his 4th team already...Mclrath pick was criticized on the spot....Please share with us what you are smoking lol
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 8:01 AM (#708655 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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If you draft a kid with your #1's and you end up trading him he is a bust...If he is good you would not want to trade him under any circumstance....Your premium picks you hope their # hangs from the roof someday
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 8:03 AM (#708656 - in reply to #708652)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Go NYR - 2018-08-11 9:48 AM

I say what I said a few days ago, we are not the best drafting team and we are not the worst. We are middle of the road when you factor in many early picks traded going for it.

I'd also say let's focus on the Clark era. Going back years and years accomplishes what exactly...that the guys here before him had bad misses also...and are now gone. Okay...at some point you need to move forward and focus on the somewhat recent past and future.

Round and round we can go, but at days end Clark's legacy will be 95% tied to the 1st round picks we made in 2017 and 2018 (5 all in) and some of the other early picks we had in those two drafts. So we'll see over the next 2 or 3 seasons.




There is risking some future for going for it...then there is the Rangers who burn the future to the ground in going for it.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-11 8:07 AM (#708657 - in reply to #708655)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 8:01 AM

If you draft a kid with your #1's and you end up trading him he is a bust...If he is good you would not want to trade him under any circumstance....Your premium picks you hope their # hangs from the roof someday


Edmonton Traded Gretzky my boy....Then they traded Messier......

Sometimes the great ones are traded because of the return..
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-11 8:08 AM (#708658 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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And............

I thought this horse was dead!!!
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-11 8:10 AM (#708659 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Why out of all the sports that have a draft, hockey is the one that has the most misses by far?

They have the world to choose from....
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 8:10 AM (#708660 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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2013 thru 2016 no 1st round picks....and 2 of those years no #2 either....and look how we got there. Nash trade we gave up a #1....Cally trade we gave up 2 #1's....Yandle trade we gave up a #1....Eric Staal trade we gave up 2 #2's ....What GM doesnt get fired with that resume?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 8:11 AM (#708661 - in reply to #708657)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-11 10:07 AM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 8:01 AM

If you draft a kid with your #1's and you end up trading him he is a bust...If he is good you would not want to trade him under any circumstance....Your premium picks you hope their # hangs from the roof someday


Edmonton Traded Gretzky my boy....Then they traded Messier......

Sometimes the great ones are traded because of the return..

True but Gretzky was sold more than traded
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 8:12 AM (#708662 - in reply to #708659)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-11 10:10 AM

Why out of all the sports that have a draft, hockey is the one that has the most misses by far?

They have the world to choose from....

Yep makes you wonder...
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 8:21 AM (#708663 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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The Oil got more than a fair shake of service before they traded all those guys
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 8:33 AM (#708664 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Look at the Oils # 1 picks from 1984 to 1999....Sather....complete train wreck

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/EDM/draft.html
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 8:44 AM (#708665 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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What the Oil DID do between 1978 and 1983 where they drafted absolute home runs....allowed them to make that crazy run to 1990 winning the SC 5 times is incredible....Then Sather got fat and you cant get on him for it....But he never got his magic back
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Rranger
Posted 2018-08-11 8:45 AM (#708666 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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When the Rangers started trading top picks for Nash's ect they were swinging for the fence. I don't begrudge that, they got close and albeit for whats proved to be a blockhead coach, who knows what might have been. In hindsight Tortorella couldn't have done any worse.
The picks are what they are and subject to some scrutiny, with the theme the last few years of veering from the so called safe picks like Walstrom, Middlestadt ect. I think the scrutiny may be magnified in the coming years. Gorton has accumulated a lot of pieces and when you look at the Rangers top ten prospects, I don't think I've ever seen a better Rangers group on paper. But they all have issues, and not all will make it. no one knows where this goes for at least the next three training camps, and by then you will know who sticks and who doesn't. So Clark and company's expertise and abilities are still fluid and very much in play.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-08-11 9:01 AM (#708667 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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I think we all agree,

Sather is terrible
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robstones
Posted 2018-08-11 9:11 AM (#708668 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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I don't understand the thought that if you're traded, you're a bust.... that's dumb. You have to give to get. JT was traded..... but he helped bring back Howden, Hajek, Namestnikov, Nils Lundkvist, and a 2nd rounder. We can pretend it was Namestnikov for Miller, and McD brought back the rest.... but that's not the case.

And yeah, Del Sucko IS a full time NHLer, so thanks for the correction. I was glad to see him go, but that doesn't make him a bust.

Nash isn't a bust because CBJ traded him.... Brassard and Zibanejad aren't busts. They were traded.

Edited by robstones 2018-08-11 9:12 AM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 9:27 AM (#708669 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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I liked Miller but he was not a top 6 forward...and you cant put a check mark next to Howden, Hijak, Nils and the hopefully #1 yet...I would rather have Miller over Names tho...Del Zotto is not as good as where he was picked.....Nash played for 9 years with CBJ before they traded him so that is ok...proper time to unload him and they kicked our ass on that trade...I hope when Heatl blows up to be a star we trade him at the Tavares UFA situation time too....Jury is still out on Zib and for Ott to trade him says they didnt believe in him and took a much older player in return ....We robbed CBJ in that trade for Brassard
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 9:27 AM (#708670 - in reply to #708667)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Rangerjunkie - 2018-08-11 11:01 AM

I think we all agree,

Sather is terrible

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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 9:33 AM (#708672 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Heres a blast from the past I found lol and you cant blame Sather either

1999 Rangers Top prospects 1-5

5 Stefan Cherneski
4 Thomas Kloucek
3 Jamie Lundmark
2 Pavel Brendl
1 Manny Malhotra

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DaTeL
Posted 2018-08-11 11:37 AM (#708673 - in reply to #708669)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 5:27 PM

I liked Miller but he was not a top 6 forward...

I guess then the guys down in sunny Tampa are sniffing glue real hard because not only did they put him on the top 6, they slotted him on their first line.

Geez...what idiots.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 12:34 PM (#708676 - in reply to #708673)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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DaTeL - 2018-08-11 1:37 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 5:27 PM

I liked Miller but he was not a top 6 forward...

I guess then the guys down in sunny Tampa are sniffing glue real hard because not only did they put him on the top 6, they slotted him on their first line.

Geez...what idiots.

Are you sure thats where he ended up? By the time TB season ended...Ondrej Pallate was on the top line and Miller went to line 3.....It also helps to play with Stamkos and Kucherov....same way it helped Gropp to play with Barzal in Juniors....Like I said I liked Miller and wished we kept him over Names but he was not a top 6 forward with us
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DaTeL
Posted 2018-08-11 1:02 PM (#708680 - in reply to #708676)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 8:34 PM

DaTeL - 2018-08-11 1:37 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 5:27 PM

I liked Miller but he was not a top 6 forward...

I guess then the guys down in sunny Tampa are sniffing glue real hard because not only did they put him on the top 6, they slotted him on their first line.

Geez...what idiots.

Are you sure thats where he ended up? By the time TB season ended...Ondrej Pallate was on the top line and Miller went to line 3.....It also helps to play with Stamkos and Kucherov....same way it helped Gropp to play with Barzal in Juniors....Like I said I liked Miller and wished we kept him over Names but he was not a top 6 forward with us

Right. The guy had 58 points in 82 Games last season, good for 82nd place in the league in pts per game...despite playing big part of the season under AV on a pretty bad team.

I rest my case. You keep throwing your wisdom and truths at the hard facts I present.

Well then...Like your good friend and brave defender once said: it is what it is.

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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 1:13 PM (#708681 - in reply to #708680)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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DaTeL - 2018-08-11 3:02 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 8:34 PM

DaTeL - 2018-08-11 1:37 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 5:27 PM

I liked Miller but he was not a top 6 forward...

I guess then the guys down in sunny Tampa are sniffing glue real hard because not only did they put him on the top 6, they slotted him on their first line.

Geez...what idiots.

Are you sure thats where he ended up? By the time TB season ended...Ondrej Pallate was on the top line and Miller went to line 3.....It also helps to play with Stamkos and Kucherov....same way it helped Gropp to play with Barzal in Juniors....Like I said I liked Miller and wished we kept him over Names but he was not a top 6 forward with us

Right. The guy had 58 points in 82 Games last season, good for 82nd place in the league in pts per game...despite playing big part of the season under AV on a pretty bad team.

I rest my case. You keep throwing your wisdom and truths at the hard facts I present.

Well then...Like your good friend and brave defender once said: it is what it is.


Why did we get rid of him then? he's 25
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 1:14 PM (#708682 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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4 SC in 91 years...hows that for wisdom?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 1:16 PM (#708683 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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You dont like Miller but you say he is a good player? which is it?
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 1:27 PM (#708686 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Yes Miller had 58 points....40 points in 63 games with us and 18 points in 19 games with TB...hmmm what stands out here? Miller scored almost half his NYR points total with TB in less than 1/3 of the games...Thats a 52 pt pace with us and a 77 pt pace with them
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 1:43 PM (#708687 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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USA got robbed in this Gretzky tournament
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Go NYR
Posted 2018-08-11 2:45 PM (#708688 - in reply to #708308)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks


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Jesus Red, you must be miserable man...LOL. All you do is complain and knock everything about the Rangers. To each their own man, but how can you be a Rangers fan and just have such a negative view of everything related to the organization.

And please don't give me 4 cups in 91 years. That is absolutely true, we all got it, but to dwell on it and focus on the negative over and over and over and over and over again does what exactly? To live in the past does what exactly? To have page after page after page in this thread knocking year after year of drafts does what exactly? Going back years and years does what exactly?

Let's focus on finally doing things the right way. Adding picks, getting young players, staying that course this offseason, I would think adding more picks with Zucc and/or Hayes dealt this season. Then getting back at it next summer with a whole boat load of young assets and a plan to be back on top in the not too distant future. And yes the picks of Lias or Chytil and so on could be misses, but they also could be hits. Let's see how it plays out bro.

And BTW...I don't say any of this to start a battle, I am just busting your chops on the miserable Rangers existence you must have. Lighten up bro. Focus on the plan we appear to now have. Focus on a new coach. And I will also add the past 5 or 6 seasons prior to this past one were a great ride. We had a lot of good times. Won a lot of playoff series. We didn't win the cup, but I know I had fun and enjoyed the time sitting in the stands at many big playoff games.

I am hopeful we'll have another good run of seasons starting in the next 2 years or so.




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DaTeL
Posted 2018-08-11 3:08 PM (#708689 - in reply to #708683)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 9:16 PM

You dont like Miller but you say he is a good player? which is it?

Says a lot about you that you think those two views are irreconcilable.

However, get your facts straight first. I did not say he is or is not a good player.
I'm just getting the kick out of your claim he ain't a top-6 player.
Which is obviously incorrect.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-08-11 3:20 PM (#708691 - in reply to #708689)
Subject: Re: Projected Line-up per Brooks



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DaTeL - 2018-08-11 5:08 PM

Mikey Red - 2018-08-11 9:16 PM

You dont like Miller but you say he is a good player? which is it?

Says a lot about you that you think those two views are irreconcilable.

However, get your facts straight first. I did not say he is or is not a good player.
I'm just getting the kick out of your claim he ain't a top-6 player.
Which is obviously incorrect.

Its not a claim Eurotrash girl....I gave you a lot to work with and you come up with this?
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