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So...what do you do?
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Fish
Posted 2018-11-13 8:51 AM (#714050)
Subject: So...what do you do?



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LONG way to go, and it's clear the Rangers will have difficulty maintaining this level of success, especially once some of these Eastern teams figure themselves out. But....

It's approaching February 25th and the Rangers have defied the odds and remain in the playoff picture...what would you do if?

1. Rangers are among the leaders in the East
2. Rangers are in the top three in the Metro
3. Rangers have a wild card spot
4. Rangers are just outside the playoffs
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concust
Posted 2018-11-13 9:04 AM (#714051 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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1. Not going to happen, but IF they are among the leaders in the East, it's important to look beyond points standings and evaluate why they're among the leaders in the East. Is Lundqvist carrying a very flawed team? Have they been bolstered by fake loser points? Is there mass parity in the division/conference, masking more important underlying strengths or weaknesses? Honestly if even a casual fan were to take 5 minutes to dig a little bit beyond W-L-T-OTL-SOL etc and find a better measure for the quality of a team, we'd be in much better shape. If the Rangers are actually one of the better teams in the east? Sure, go for it. But it wasn't predicted to happen, it hasn't happened so far, and the chances of them getting their sh** together to actually be a strong team, is pretty much nil.

2. "Top three in metro" is most likely means "mediocre team exceeding expectations," with some spin. Does anyone hang a "Top three in metro" banner in their rafters? No. This is meaningless. See above.

3. Sell your pending UFA assets and be happy that your young kids are playing above expectations.

4. Same as 3, except you also get to be happy about getting a few extra lottery balls.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-11-13 9:43 AM (#714052 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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Im with concust
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-11-13 10:29 AM (#714057 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: RE: So...what do you do?


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Fish - 2018-11-13 8:51 AM

LONG way to go, and it's clear the Rangers will have difficulty maintaining this level of success, especially once some of these Eastern teams figure themselves out. But....

It's approaching February 25th and the Rangers have defied the odds and remain in the playoff picture...what would you do if?

1. Rangers are among the leaders in the East
2. Rangers are in the top three in the Metro
3. Rangers have a wild card spot
4. Rangers are just outside the playoffs



Why is it clear they will have difficulty maintaining this level of success? They have done absolutely nothing to show you that. They lost 1 point to complete incompetence by the refs in the Oilers game. Another point because Hank had a rare goof late vs. the Kings. Should have won at least 1 of the first 4 losses. They have out played their opponent the majority of games this season. The Rangers are deeper than most teams in hockey. Most teams are 1 or 2 line teams at best. A lot of teams have crap defenseman. Rangers are only starting to rebuild and their D core is more talented than most teams. Especially if DeAngelo can keep it up. Plus, they have had injuries to deal with. Zucc has missed time. Now Buchnevich who finally was getting a clue. McQuaid has been out. I simply don't see a lot of teams all that better than them in the East.

Playoffs would be a great experience for the younger players. If they are in it, expect them to deal guys like Spooner and Smith with some retained. They won't deal Hayes, Zucc, or guys like that until the off-season if they want more picks. If they are in it by game 40, they should sign Hayes to a 4 year deal. Then they can move him down the line. Gorton must stop giving out idiotic NMC and NTC's. That should be a company policy. No more of those. If you don't want to play here without it, then get lost. Personally I think they should sign him if Chytil and Andersson don't show more offensively.

Edited by itsmcilrathtime 2018-11-13 10:31 AM
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-11-13 11:49 AM (#714058 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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You can't deal Hayes or Zucc in the off season, they will be free agents

Rangers have 5 regulation or OT wins out of 18 games, Colombus, Tampa, Toronto, Boston, all have double that. In fact no one has less, even the devils who are last in the east right now have 6. This is the problem of the shootouts, they have the tendency to make you think you're better than you are.

I enjoy watching this team, I like the fact that they have a ton of twenty somethings. BUT, 5 actual wins out of 18 does not mean a great deal of success. Lets see where they stand 20 games from now, if they're still in the hunt then I'll get excited. Right now I have a hard time believing they will be even a bubble playoff team
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-11-13 11:56 AM (#714060 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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Call it cautious optimism
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-11-13 12:24 PM (#714063 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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It all depends if Gorton is the GM or if Sather getting involved
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-11-13 12:31 PM (#714064 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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If you read, I said sign Hayes. You can deal a players rights. Happens a lot.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-11-13 1:04 PM (#714065 - in reply to #714064)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-11-13 12:31 PM

If you read, I said sign Hayes. You can deal a players rights. Happens a lot.


Actually you said they won't deal Hayes or Zucc until the off season if they want more picks.

All good though!!

Hahahaha yep

Woo Hoo
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-11-13 1:05 PM (#714066 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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You said later on, if they're still in it after 40 games then sign Hayes. Gotcha..
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-11-13 1:59 PM (#714071 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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You can always do conditional rights. Trade Zucc's rights for a 7th in the off-season, then turns into a first or second if he signs with that team. Hank and Zucc seem to be best buddies. I have a hunch he's not going anywhere. Rangers farm isn't nearly as deep up front as it is on d and in goal. Other than Kravtsov, there really isn't anybody on the verge of a major role up front. You figure Spooner is out. McLeod is out. That leaves one spot for Kravtsov.
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-11-13 6:24 PM (#714079 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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well deserved. Thanks for the info buddy
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-11-13 6:27 PM (#714080 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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I hope he recovers from surgery
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-11-15 8:14 AM (#714095 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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Boston needs Defensemen...
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Fish
Posted 2018-11-15 8:32 AM (#714096 - in reply to #714057)
Subject: RE: So...what do you do?



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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-11-13 12:29 PM
Why is it clear they will have difficulty maintaining this level of success?


Because no team in the NHL has ever maintained a 93% point ratio...and give their are something like 45 or so games until the deadline, in unrealistic to expect the Rangers to continue at that pace. You could perhaps make an argument that they'll be good enough to still be in a playoff race, which is the reason why I posed the question the way I did...
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-11-15 10:24 AM (#714097 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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Fish, you need to be less of a stats geek and open your eyes to what you watch. Stats are for morons. Metrics are gay. If you are watching the games, the Rangers have outplayed their opponents the majority of the time and they are deeper than most teams. That is the recipe for wins.
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NTHockey
Posted 2018-11-15 12:10 PM (#714098 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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How does it benefit the younger players to be an 8th seed and do a 4-5 game quick exit?
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Rranger
Posted 2018-11-16 7:44 AM (#714376 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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Today's NHL is a Bettman inspired Chihuahua dogfight between many mediocre hockey teams battling for the 4rth to 8th playoff spots. Its the way it is, with most of those teams also benefiting from Garry's flawed everybody is special, leave no team behind system. I'm not sure what more this team has to do besides be in almost every game they have played, to show they can compete with the rest of the mediocre also rans for a playoff spot. They are in the mix. Quinn is doing a fabulous job, and they ARE going to get steadily better and become more consistent, its what well coached young teams do as a season progresses.. And when, not if they trade Hayes and possibly Zuccarello then Quinn will have Chytil and Andersson ready to contribute. I'm not thrilled about those two in the NHL just yet but as long as they get the ice they should develop, and be solid players by Christmas. Hank is Hank, and the Rangers wouldn't be the first team to ride a good goalie through the rough, and as long as Georgiev can spell Hank with quality starts, I see the Rangers scratching and clawing all the way down the pipe. I also think Gorton is hard at work trying to dump a couple or three overpaid stiffs on D, even if he has to get Claesson types in return. Tony D and Pionk have made Shattenkirk expendable, unless Quinn can get through to him, but I don't see that. I see a dog on the ice just about every time he steps on except in the shootout. Smith never should have got the big contract and Staal could be the third one to go. Hopefully at least Hajek and possibly lindgren find their way up here by the trade deadline. The Rangers are not going to fall off the map. A lot of players individually are showing improvement, if that continues the team will as well. Consistency is the name of the game in all aspects, some highs are ok, Quinn's goal is eliminate the lows. I think he can do it with this group. If they happen to get in the playoffs it certainly could be a quick out going up against a hard working well coached more talented team, but it is a game.

Edited by Rranger 2018-11-16 7:47 AM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-11-16 8:24 AM (#714377 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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also dont wait for the trade deadline....trade guys as soon as deals present themselves
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Fish
Posted 2018-11-16 8:58 AM (#714378 - in reply to #714097)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-11-15 9:24 AM

Fish, you need to be less of a stats geek and open your eyes to what you watch. Stats are for morons. Metrics are gay. If you are watching the games, the Rangers have outplayed their opponents the majority of the time and they are deeper than most teams. That is the recipe for wins.


With an argument like that, I'm guessing that you play the lottery every week. Statistics allow you to quantitatively (that means to use some sort of quantity) assess something to allow you to compare, contrast or in some cases even predict.

Take the lottery for instance, an argument like yours above would probably run something like "well people win the lottery all the time", which is what we'd call a qualitative argument, whereas if you were to look at it quantitatively, you'd find the chances of any one person winning it is something like 1 in 100,000,000. It's kind of akin to that love-struck guy in those bad 80s movies asking the girl whether he still has a chance, and she says that she can't see any way that they'll be together, and he goes off saying "I still got a chance" because she didn't just say no.

In the event of the Rangers points per game, you can qualitatively and quantitatively look at the likelihood of the team continuing that streak and say the chances are extremely low. Quantitatively....no team in over 100 years of the NHL playing has ever done it, and qualitatively there's so many ways to lose, and the Rangers are have barely won a bunch of the games.

I watch the games, and I see a team that has a bunch of positives, but I see all flaws too. The defense remains a work in progress, and the team still struggles with opponents who pressure the puck. I've been enjoying the success the team has had, but I see a work in progress, nowhere near a finished product.

As to calling those who use statistics as morons...and metrics as being "gay", they're like assholes, every opinion has one
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Steady Eddie
Posted 2018-11-16 9:04 AM (#714379 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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1. Sell
2. Sell
3. Sell
4. Sell
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Rangerjunkie
Posted 2018-11-16 9:05 AM (#714380 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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They've outplayed their opponents the majority of the time, and yet, they have 4 wins in 19 games!!

Thats a metric that needs to be looked at no matter how gay a metric may be
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-11-16 9:06 AM (#714381 - in reply to #714379)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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Steady Eddie - 2018-11-16 11:04 AM

1. Sell
2. Sell
3. Sell
4. Sell

5. Sell
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-11-16 9:06 AM (#714382 - in reply to #714380)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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Rangerjunkie - 2018-11-16 11:05 AM

They've outplayed their opponents the majority of the time, and yet, they have 4 wins in 19 games!!

Thats a metric that needs to be looked at no matter how gay a metric may be

Metrics are so happy!
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concust
Posted 2018-11-16 2:18 PM (#714405 - in reply to #714097)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?



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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-11-15 11:24 AM

Stats are for morons. Metrics are gay.


This is my new favorite dump quote.
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Blue404
Posted 2018-11-19 3:29 PM (#714704 - in reply to #714050)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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1. Rangers are among the leaders in the East - go for it,make playoffs or try to.If they were successful enough to be the among leaders of the east then the playoffs experience will pay off in a long run.Cons - no chance of getting a high draft picks

2. Rangers are in the top three in the Metro - same as above but do not make the trades for veterans
3. Rangers have a wild card spot - definitely need to drop off the race and keep calling a young guys and trade whomever they think they might get a lot for.
4. Rangers are just outside the playoffs -satay with the program,develop a system that fits best for this team and forget the playoffs,they will watch playoffs on their TV sets.Get hungry for success and be ready for the next year.

STUDS ARE FOR MORONS.MATRIX FOR GAY
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Mandar
Posted 2018-11-19 5:28 PM (#714753 - in reply to #714405)
Subject: Re: So...what do you do?


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concust - 2018-11-16 4:18 PM

itsmcilrathtime - 2018-11-15 11:24 AM

Stats are for morons. Metrics are gay.


This is my new favorite dump quote.
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