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New York Rangers trade chips
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robstones
Posted 2018-12-04 6:20 AM (#715840)
Subject: New York Rangers trade chips



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https://foreverblueshirts.com/checking-up-on-the-rangers-north-ameri...

This article says Wall and Huska are both having decent seasons for themselves

(It's really an otherwise good article about how all the NA prospects are doing.... almost put this in the Miller thread)

But it reminded me of the talk about drafting a goalie this year in the 2nd.

These guys are trade chips at very least. It's important to have players come up through the system and have entire careers here.... no doubt... but every championship team has it's share of transplants as well.

So thought I'd start a thread about the potential trade chips in the organization leading up to the deadline. Tis the season!

So the goalies... Zuccarello, Skjei, and Hayes have been talked about as well as Zibanejad... so they are open for discussion here too. As well as anyone else someone cares to add to the list.

If anyone reads anything in the rumor mills... this is the thread to post in.

Wall turned a crazy corner from last year.

12gp 3.98gaa and a .868sv% last year. Ouch.

but this year

10gp 1.80gaa and a .933sv%

Good god yall!

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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-04 6:59 AM (#715843 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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The whole defense can be moved for all I care....Hopefully Lindgren, Rykov, Hajek, Crawley can be here next season...We need a true top pair D and elite talent up front....I am mostly against trading Kreider, Hayes and Zib...We need to build around these pieces....If we trade them for picks etc... we gotta wait years to replace them...Who is gonna score the goals if we move them? Yes you have to trade Zuc...he will fetch a good price to a contender...Shattenkirk will have takers too
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-04 8:21 AM (#715844 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Ryan Gropp sent to Maine
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NTHockey
Posted 2018-12-04 8:50 AM (#715845 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Will have to move some BIG pieces if we want to be in the mix for a top draft choice. Currently we would draft 14th; hardly a position that would get us a pick strong enough to build around. I agree with Mikey Red - "The whole defense can be moved for all I care". Maybe and it's a qualified maybe, keep Skjei. Untouchables - none, for the right price.
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x10003q
Posted 2018-12-04 9:50 AM (#715846 - in reply to #715844)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Mikey Red - 2018-12-04 10:21 AM

Ryan Gropp sent to Maine


Barzal halo pick. Maybe the Islanders want him.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-12-04 9:53 AM (#715847 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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Skjei would be the guy you want to move After the expensive vets. The system is loaded on the left. Too early to give up on players like Pionk and DeAngelo. Essentially, they are rookies. Neither has played much in their careers.

Zucc for a 1st and a forward prospect.
Hopefully either Staal or Smith retaining if necessary. Both would be the jackpot.
Skjei for the right young forward prospect that is NHL ready.
Love to dump Shatt but not sure that can happen
Hayes I'd like to keep but if the offer is a can't pass, do it.

Georgiev has to go because Shesterkin is coming over. He may be the key to dumping a Staal or Smith. Florida and Vancouver both have crap goaltending. Staal would be a nice addition to the Canucks with Georgiev.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-04 9:55 AM (#715848 - in reply to #715846)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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x10003q - 2018-12-04 11:50 AM

Mikey Red - 2018-12-04 10:21 AM

Ryan Gropp sent to Maine


Barzal halo pick. Maybe the Islanders want him.

Lol yep...Gropp doesnt have a plan anything
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Vua
Posted 2018-12-04 10:43 AM (#715849 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: RE: New York Rangers trade chips


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Don't forget we have to make room for Halverson too. He's having a career year with the Buford Wyoming Bisons or wherever he plays.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-04 10:46 AM (#715850 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Lol Hahaha
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Rranger
Posted 2018-12-04 1:48 PM (#715851 - in reply to #715849)
Subject: RE: New York Rangers trade chips


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Vua - 2018-12-04 9:43 AM

Don't forget we have to make room for Halverson too. He's having a career year with the Buford Wyoming Bisons or wherever he plays.





Lol.
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Rranger
Posted 2018-12-04 2:03 PM (#715852 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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The old adage is every one is available in the right deal that you win . The Rangers have a few obvious non tradeable prospects. Normal player personnel moves will weed the Gropps out of the system as room is needed. I’m kind of “it’s not that bad” and any deals should involve obtaining players that can at least compete next year for a job. I think this trade deadline will cement Gortons short rebuild and I expect the Rangers to not only battle down to the playoff wire this year, but to be a better team next year play personnel wise, which means more of a playoff competitor. No brainer Zucc, Hayes, and hope Smith and Shattenkirk get moved. The X factor with Hayes wil be is Chytil or Howden for that matter, ready after this season to play top two center minutes to replace Hayes, if the Rangers think so Hayes is a goner.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-12-05 2:06 AM (#715853 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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Nobody said Halverson is NHL ready dumbass. As usual Vua. You're a moron who can't read. Or only sees what he wants when he reads which is why your a crap poster. The point was that the Pack are playing a crap 27 year old goalie who has no talent. Halverson is 22. The Rangers spent a second rounder on him and his save % is .918 in a league that doesn't play defense. There is ZERO reason he shouldn't be on the Pack. I seem to remember nobody in the fan base believing in Talbot when he first got here either. Of course, as usual you only remember what you want to remember. Gropp continues to get playing time as a second rounder and do nothing with it. Liked the pick at the time but no disputing he sucks right now. However, Halverson doesn't get a chance and he is playing well in his league. That makes no sense and it's not how you rebuild. It's also hypocritical by the organization. It sends a terrible message to prospects that you can play like crap, get rewarded for it. Not to mention if you play well, you are punished for it. I'm not OK with pissing away a second round pick on a goalie and not trying to develop him. He was 9-16 with a .887 save % on a terrible Pack team in 16-17. That does not warrant a demotion. Blackwood for the Devils last year as an example was 7-17 with a .882 save %. They didn't banish him this season. They kept working with him and now his save % is .929.

Edited by itsmcilrathtime 2018-12-05 7:38 AM
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NTHockey
Posted 2018-12-05 10:32 AM (#715855 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Too bad there are so few teams that know how to develop goalies. I am reminded of a coaches clinic where Bill Barber, then coach of the Philadelphia Phantoms, was the featured speaker. Having two goalies in my family, I asked him how he handles goalies. His response "I leave them alone" says it all.

Teams may have a goalie coach at the NHL but AHL goalie coaches are more than a cut below NHL; some are volunteers or related to players. That doesn't bode well for development or success.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-12-05 10:50 AM (#715856 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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I think we are the best team in hockey at developing goalies because of BA. Talbot, Raanta, Georgiev. I don't get this though with Halverson. His numbers at the AHL are not horrific. He was a 2nd rounder. They are playing 2 half ass vets over him. It makes no sense. Only thing I can think of is he pissed somebody off in the organization. It's ridiculous. At least play the fukkkkking kid every game, hope he does well and use him as a trade chip. If he had a .850 save % and was completely over matched I get it. Call it a bust and move on. That's not the case here. Maybe BA doesn't like him and he's not coachable. I don't know.

Edited by itsmcilrathtime 2018-12-05 10:52 AM
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Vua
Posted 2018-12-05 12:29 PM (#715857 - in reply to #715853)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-12-05 2:06 AM

Nobody said Halverson is NHL ready dumbass. As usual Vua. You're a moron who can't read. Or only sees what he wants when he reads which is why your a crap poster. The point was that the Pack are playing a crap 27 year old goalie who has no talent. Halverson is 22. The Rangers spent a second rounder on him and his save % is .918 in a league that doesn't play defense. There is ZERO reason he shouldn't be on the Pack. I seem to remember nobody in the fan base believing in Talbot when he first got here either. Of course, as usual you only remember what you want to remember. Gropp continues to get playing time as a second rounder and do nothing with it. Liked the pick at the time but no disputing he sucks right now. However, Halverson doesn't get a chance and he is playing well in his league. That makes no sense and it's not how you rebuild. It's also hypocritical by the organization. It sends a terrible message to prospects that you can play like crap, get rewarded for it. Not to mention if you play well, you are punished for it. I'm not OK with pissing away a second round pick on a goalie and not trying to develop him. He was 9-16 with a .887 save % on a terrible Pack team in 16-17. That does not warrant a demotion. Blackwood for the Devils last year as an example was 7-17 with a .882 save %. They didn't banish him this season. They kept working with him and now his save % is .929.


I can read and comprehend. I know exactly what you said and sometimes it pains me that I remember it. How do you think I know to find all your quotes to throw back in your face? I remember it whether I want to or not. I'm not misstating here in error, it's to taunt you since you're such a douche. You're not grasping the situation with Halverson. Until this season he's shown nothing. He has to earn his way back. You think the Rangers wanted to bring in an old goalie with no future? They have a number of goalie prospects now and he isn't near the front of the group anymore. He's going to have to force his way back with an extended period of good play. And regardless of what you seem to think, a sub .900 save percentage isn't good.
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NTHockey
Posted 2018-12-05 1:19 PM (#715858 - in reply to #715856)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-12-05 12:50 PM

I think we are the best team in hockey at developing goalies because of BA. Talbot, Raanta, Georgiev. I don't get this though with Halverson. His numbers at the AHL are not horrific. He was a 2nd rounder. They are playing 2 half ass vets over him. It makes no sense. Only thing I can think of is he pissed somebody off in the organization. It's ridiculous. At least play the fukkkkking kid every game, hope he does well and use him as a trade chip. If he had a .850 save % and was completely over matched I get it. Call it a bust and move on. That's not the case here. Maybe BA doesn't like him and he's not coachable. I don't know.


BA may be great in developing goalies at the NHL level. However, the AHL is where the development starts. BA can't be in two places as one. Read up on Eric Raymond, the Wolf Pack goaltending coach. Meh!


https://bluelinestation.com/2018/07/14/new-york-rangers-new-wolf-pac...
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Rranger
Posted 2018-12-05 5:42 PM (#715863 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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There is a lot of smoke blown about Shestorkin, which is fine but when you compare his numbers to other KHL goalies they are similar. Very much within the league average. So it’s not like he’s tearing up the KHL or anything. So until he gets over here and tears it up, I wouldn’t be dumping Georgiev anytime soon. If Georgiev shows Some consistency but still hasn’t answered his ceiling question this year, the Rangers would be crazy to move him just yet. At least wait til after next seasons training camp, to assess Shestorkin and Henreks New York or bust views.





https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/khl/stats/2018-2019

Edited by Rranger 2018-12-05 6:07 PM
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-05 5:49 PM (#715864 - in reply to #715863)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Good points R....and Ive read in places that NYR is not crazy high on Shesty....Hence they took Lindbom
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Rranger
Posted 2018-12-05 6:07 PM (#715866 - in reply to #715864)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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Mikey Red - 2018-12-05 4:49 PM

Good points R....and Ive read in places that NYR is not crazy high on Shesty....Hence they took Lindbom






I forgot to post the KHL goalie stats it’s in the post now.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-05 6:16 PM (#715867 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Lol Nigel Dawes.... Those GAA are way too low
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Rranger
Posted 2018-12-05 6:37 PM (#715868 - in reply to #715867)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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Mikey Red - 2018-12-05 5:16 PM

Lol Nigel Dawes.... Those GAA are way too low






Another in a long line of Tom Remney draft busts.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-05 6:45 PM (#715869 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Hahaha totally...but the guy who vetted and hired him is still here lol
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Rranger
Posted 2018-12-05 8:28 PM (#715871 - in reply to #715869)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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Mikey Red - 2018-12-05 5:45 PM

Hahaha totally...but the guy who vetted and hired him is still here lol




Renney was so far in over his head it was beyond belief. No experience whatsoever as a Player personell guy and smooth talks Sather into hiring him. Then drafts gems like Jessiman and Dawes.

Edited by Rranger 2018-12-05 10:53 PM
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-12-06 2:19 AM (#715872 - in reply to #715863)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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Rranger - 2018-12-05 5:42 PM

There is a lot of smoke blown about Shestorkin, which is fine but when you compare his numbers to other KHL goalies they are similar. Very much within the league average. So it’s not like he’s tearing up the KHL or anything. So until he gets over here and tears it up, I wouldn’t be dumping Georgiev anytime soon. If Georgiev shows Some consistency but still hasn’t answered his ceiling question this year, the Rangers would be crazy to move him just yet. At least wait til after next seasons training camp, to assess Shestorkin and Henreks New York or bust views.





https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/khl/stats/2018-2019



I think that is a crock of sh!t that the Rangers aren't high on Shesterkin. I haven't seen anything written on him other than 1 piece a while back that he's one of the elite goalie prospects in the world. As far as Lindbom goes he isn't even playing. Complete waste of a year for him. On one site he was rated 9th or 10th out of the goalies in his year and the Rangers took him first. Shesterkin's coach is a dumbass. He's done nothing but jerk the kid around giving old scrub goalies equal or more playing time that often have worse statistical numbers. He should have never resigned there and should have come over and played in the AHL.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-12-06 2:33 AM (#715873 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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Rangers are over zealous building from the net out. I agree with that to an extent. However, the Rangers go way overboard with this which is why they are short on forwards in the system. Taking Lindbom was a mistake. Period.


https://thehockeywriters.com/rangers-prospect-shesterkin-lundqvist/
https://thehockeywriters.com/who-is-the-nhls-top-goaltending-prospec...
http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/nhl-top-prospects-rankings-...


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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-06 6:55 AM (#715874 - in reply to #715873)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Taking Lindbom with a second rounder is still a stupid pick... We have 20 goalies in the system
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Rranger
Posted 2018-12-06 8:05 AM (#715875 - in reply to #715872)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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itsmcilrathtime - 2018-12-06 1:19 AM

Rranger - 2018-12-05 5:42 PM

There is a lot of smoke blown about Shestorkin, which is fine but when you compare his numbers to other KHL goalies they are similar. Very much within the league average. So it’s not like he’s tearing up the KHL or anything. So until he gets over here and tears it up, I wouldn’t be dumping Georgiev anytime soon. If Georgiev shows Some consistency but still hasn’t answered his ceiling question this year, the Rangers would be crazy to move him just yet. At least wait til after next seasons training camp, to assess Shestorkin and Henreks New York or bust views.





https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/khl/stats/2018-2019



I think that is a crock of sh!t that the Rangers aren't high on Shesterkin. I haven't seen anything written on him other than 1 piece a while back that he's one of the elite goalie prospects in the world. As far as Lindbom goes he isn't even playing. Complete waste of a year for him. On one site he was rated 9th or 10th out of the goalies in his year and the Rangers took him first. Shesterkin's coach is a dumbass. He's done nothing but jerk the kid around giving old scrub goalies equal or more playing time that often have worse statistical numbers. He should have never resigned there and should have come over and played in the AHL.




Slow down there putz. Maybe you can point out where I said the Rangers aren't high on Shesterkin, or mentioned Lindbom?? You really need to quote the post you are responding to. Work on that would you. Lol.
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robstones
Posted 2018-12-06 8:38 AM (#715876 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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He's not within league average.... his stats are top 3-4 in the league

31 year old Lars Johansson is tops in both gaa and sv%.... after him, Shestyorkin (22 years old) and Jacob Kovar (30 years old) are the only other goalies in the top 5 in each stat

He's one of the best goalies in the 2nd best league in the world, and the best goalie prospect playing in Russia. End of story
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Rranger
Posted 2018-12-06 10:13 AM (#715877 - in reply to #715876)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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robstones - 2018-12-06 7:38 AM

He's not within league average.... his stats are top 3-4 in the league

31 year old Lars Johansson is tops in both gaa and sv%.... after him, Shestyorkin (22 years old) and Jacob Kovar (30 years old) are the only other goalies in the top 5 in each stat

He's one of the best goalies in the 2nd best league in the world, and the best goalie prospect playing in Russia. End of story





And Magnus Hellberg who was a plug has as good as or better stats on the same team. no one is saying the kid can't play my points about the Rangers covering their ass by hanging onto a still undetermined ceiling for a prospect like Georgiev, who's value could significantly improve the longer the Rangers nurture him. When Shestorkin gets here and proves his worth then hand him the keys not before. End of story.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-12-06 10:52 AM (#715880 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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Your strategy sucks ass. If Shesterkin makes the team next year which is highly likely, then Georgiev will lose all his value around the league and he will be worthless. Halverson should be playing almost every game in the AHL so by miracle if Shesterkin doesn't make the team, he can be the backup for a little while. Georgiev has shown no high level skill in any area. He stops the pucks he is supposed to. They would be morons not to use him for what they can get at the deadline. As I stated before, he would be an ideal guy to use to dump Smith or Staal with.

Edited by itsmcilrathtime 2018-12-06 10:54 AM
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concust
Posted 2018-12-06 10:57 AM (#715881 - in reply to #715863)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Rranger - 2018-12-05 6:42 PM

There is a lot of smoke blown about Shestorkin, which is fine but when you compare his numbers to other KHL goalies they are similar. Very much within the league average. So it’s not like he’s tearing up the KHL or anything. So until he gets over here and tears it up, I wouldn’t be dumping Georgiev anytime soon. If Georgiev shows Some consistency but still hasn’t answered his ceiling question this year, the Rangers would be crazy to move him just yet. At least wait til after next seasons training camp, to assess Shestorkin and Henreks New York or bust views.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/khl/stats/2018-2019


The smoke is not due only to his numbers, but the age at which he's putting them up. The other NHL wunderkind playing for the KHL is Sorokin, Isles property, and is similarly hyped. I completely agree about waiting and seeing what he does here - but remember, you were similarly skeptical about signing Georgiev based on what he accomplished in Europe.

Will be interesting to watch if both russian goalies come over (speculation is NA for both after their KHL seasons are done) and have a cross-town rivalry in goal.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-06 11:31 AM (#715883 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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I believe the Isles guy is KHL signed through 2020
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2018-12-06 12:09 PM (#715884 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: RE: New York Rangers trade chips


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Hank has shown plenty this year that he isn't done. Georgiev is hardly a guy they will build around. Yet, there are always a few teams out there desperate for goaltending. Hopefully, Georgiev finishes strong and can draw some interest. They can get picks or unload a contract with him.
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Mikey Red
Posted 2018-12-06 12:11 PM (#715885 - in reply to #715840)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips



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Come back in February when he is on game 58
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Rranger
Posted 2018-12-06 12:17 PM (#715886 - in reply to #715881)
Subject: Re: New York Rangers trade chips


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concust - 2018-12-06 9:57 AM

Rranger - 2018-12-05 6:42 PM

There is a lot of smoke blown about Shestorkin, which is fine but when you compare his numbers to other KHL goalies they are similar. Very much within the league average. So it’s not like he’s tearing up the KHL or anything. So until he gets over here and tears it up, I wouldn’t be dumping Georgiev anytime soon. If Georgiev shows Some consistency but still hasn’t answered his ceiling question this year, the Rangers would be crazy to move him just yet. At least wait til after next seasons training camp, to assess Shestorkin and Henreks New York or bust views.

https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/khl/stats/2018-2019


The smoke is not due only to his numbers, but the age at which he's putting them up. The other NHL wunderkind playing for the KHL is Sorokin, Isles property, and is similarly hyped. I completely agree about waiting and seeing what he does here - but remember, you were similarly skeptical about signing Georgiev based on what he accomplished in Europe.

Will be interesting to watch if both russian goalies come over (speculation is NA for both after their KHL seasons are done) and have a cross-town rivalry in goal.




Just as I remember you and rob incessantly blowing how valuable it was Lias was playing in Sweden last year, until of course the Rangers got him out of there. Georgiev is still far from any kind of confirmed player, and my skepticism was not to appoint him the best Ranger goalie upon signing. let him come over and prove it which he did. I don't base a players current success like some, based on what they did before they got here, but rather what they do AFTER they get here. When Shestorokin comes over and does it then ya hes a keeper. Success in the KHL does not guarantee success over here. His numbers are good like many others before him that never panned out.
Trading Georgiev before Shestorkin even gets here would be stupid.
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