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The Chris Drury Thread
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Fish
Posted 2021-08-10 8:59 AM (#780704 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread



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Updated with Shesterkin and other RFA signings
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2021-08-10 9:20 AM (#780706 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: RE: The Chris Drury Thread




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Drury has been incredible so far. Most of our dumbass fan base has totally forgotten what kind of team and players wins playoff games. You win more playoff games with a Goodrow, Blais, Rooney or Hunt than you do with a euro pussy like Buchnevich. Most of our fan base has also lowered their bar for defensive play and penalty killing so badly it's pathetic. Stating Buchnevich was a really good PK guy. No he wasn't. He sucked compared to guys like Hagelin, Moore and Boyle. He sucked compared to guys like Messier, Larmer and MacTavish. People get caught up with these stupid new stats. They are useless. A guy like Messier or Hagelin had other teams point men constantly playing afraid on the PP because of their speed. Boyle, Moore and MacTavish would constantly win big draws or make big blocks of shots. Larmer would always be in the right place. The team has had so many euro rejects or soft players on this team forever it's no wonder they were butt fukkkked by the Islanders their last 3 games. Rangers most talented players could play brave because a Kocur or Orr was around. I remember watching Orr saying Brashear was running around targeting the Rangers best players. He didn't like it so he crossed Ovechkin in the mouth and knocked his front teeth it. That has been missing for a long time here.
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PV29
Posted 2021-08-10 5:58 PM (#780708 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread





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Drury has been solid so far. I will go on record stating that now because the results this season may, or may not, be positive despite making good moves in the off-season.

He has done what needed to be done to move the rebuild along to the final stages.
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LaFrenger
Posted 2021-08-10 9:25 PM (#780709 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread





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Goodrow, Blais, Reaves, Tinordi, dark horse Dryden Hunt ya they beefed up their third and fourth lines which everyone on the planet knew they had to do. Upgraded bottom pair d with Nemeth and Lunqvist. Another check mark.. Hard to criticize the Buchnevich trade without knowing Drury’s options and knowing Drury had to do it this off season, which 31 other GM’s knew. Goodrows contract is the cost of doing business. Shestorokin contract another cost of doing business contract. Rangers made a statement he’s their go to goalie and if he’s as advertised Rangers are good for three more years after this upcoming season. One could say Drury has been very diligent in filling holes.
If I have a complaint about Gorton and Davidson last summer it was their free agent signings and acquisitions were pathetic, with the exception of Blackwell, it’s like they mailed in last season and it bit them in the ass. Drury very well probably learned something watching that. Interesting season coming up.
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Cap'nMess
Posted 2021-08-11 5:04 AM (#780710 - in reply to #780709)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread





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LaFrenger - 2021-08-11 12:25 AM

Goodrow, Blais, Reaves, Tinordi, dark horse Dryden Hunt ya they beefed up their third and fourth lines which everyone on the planet knew they had to do. Upgraded bottom pair d with Nemeth and Lunqvist. Another check mark.. Hard to criticize the Buchnevich trade without knowing Drury’s options and knowing Drury had to do it this off season, which 31 other GM’s knew. Goodrows contract is the cost of doing business. Shestorokin contract another cost of doing business contract. Rangers made a statement he’s their go to goalie and if he’s as advertised Rangers are good for three more years after this upcoming season. One could say Drury has been very diligent in filling holes.
If I have a complaint about Gorton and Davidson last summer it was their free agent signings and acquisitions were pathetic, with the exception of Blackwell, it’s like they mailed in last season and it bit them in the ass. Drury very well probably learned something watching that. Interesting season coming up.


Rooney was a pretty good signing too.

As for this year, where's the Stud C?
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LaFrenger
Posted 2021-08-11 6:27 AM (#780711 - in reply to #780710)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread





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Cap'nMess - 2021-08-11 4:04 AM

LaFrenger - 2021-08-11 12:25 AM

Goodrow, Blais, Reaves, Tinordi, dark horse Dryden Hunt ya they beefed up their third and fourth lines which everyone on the planet knew they had to do. Upgraded bottom pair d with Nemeth and Lunqvist. Another check mark.. Hard to criticize the Buchnevich trade without knowing Drury’s options and knowing Drury had to do it this off season, which 31 other GM’s knew. Goodrows contract is the cost of doing business. Shestorokin contract another cost of doing business contract. Rangers made a statement he’s their go to goalie and if he’s as advertised Rangers are good for three more years after this upcoming season. One could say Drury has been very diligent in filling holes.
If I have a complaint about Gorton and Davidson last summer it was their free agent signings and acquisitions were pathetic, with the exception of Blackwell, it’s like they mailed in last season and it bit them in the ass. Drury very well probably learned something watching that. Interesting season coming up.


Rooney was a pretty good signing too.

As for this year, where's the Stud C?


Good catch forgot about Rooney he was a real good signing. Big C is still in the water.
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Fish
Posted 2021-08-11 2:41 PM (#780713 - in reply to #780709)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread



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LaFrenger - 2021-08-10 10:25 PM
Goodrows contract is the cost of doing business.


I see it differently. I see the Goodrow signing as a high risk for a number of reasons:

If the Rangers were near to competing seriously for a Cup, then the one or two years you're likely to get out of him might make sense, by the time the team will be contenders, he'll be well past his prime.

The vast majority of forwards tend to peak around the time that UFA kicks in 27/28 and then drop off to varying degrees. You always have exceptions, look at Ovechkin for instance, but the majority tend to follow a quick rise upwards, only to peak and drop at this age. Goodrow playing a physical game, is at greater risk of dropping quicker and more sharply, as players of his ilk typically do. The Rangers might be able to get 1 ... maybe 2 years, but at that point the rest will probably be underperforming. He'll be an expensive fourth liner before you know it.

Whether he can perform without his partners Gourde and Coleman remains to be seen. Goodrow didn't emerge until he joined the Lightning, who got him cheap and paired him up in a way that made the most of his skills. By contrast it's not clear at this point who he'd play with on the team. Rooney and Barron might work, or perhaps Blais, Reaves or Hunt...but then you're really looking a t a 4th liner, rather than the third liner he's been promoted as.

Speaking of which, his offensive high is 7 goals...he had 6 in a shortened season last year, three of which were into an empty net. He's kind of like a slightly bigger version of Jed Ortmeyer in that respect

What Drury did with Goodrow is basically pay him for what he HAS done, versus what he likely will do with the Rangers.

He really needed to spend more effort trying to find a 25/26 year old guy (or perhaps younger) who could possibly evolve into Goodrow, rather than hope that he gets the exception to the rule in this one. A recent analysis I came across, found that only about 1 in 5 UFAs live up to their contract value in their FIRST year...after that it drops.

When it comes down to it, these types of roles you really have to rely on finding some diamonds in the coal. You have to go looking for the guys who haven't yet become that player, rather than paying the ones who have already done it, to try and do it again.

Of course there's the "appearance" of doing something, which is why teams get so much pressure from the media, fanbase etc to do SOMETHING on these days, and the tenure of a GM isn't often long enough for them to have to deal with the consequences. But as fans, we typically have a longer investment with a team and as such it ultimately impacts our happiness long after those who perpetrated it are gone.

Singularly the deals for Goodrow, Buchnevich and even the extension for Reaves are not fatal in and of themselves, but collectively they can have an impact. Next year there's going to be some serious challenges at one of the most important positions - center - where Strome and Zibanejad both become UFAs....assuming they're not gone before that. Gaining Eichel only partly solves the problem, with you having to either rely on Chytil to step up, or picking up someone else's unwanted player....because with $5.3M tied up in Reaves and Goodrow, you're not going to have those extra dollars to fix the center spot - or perhaps they can unload either of Kreider or Trouba.

Anyway, to me the Goodrow is not the "cost of doing business" but akin to betting a big chunk of money on a single number in roulette. You might win, but you're probably going to lose.
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LaFrenger
Posted 2021-08-11 6:16 PM (#780715 - in reply to #780713)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread





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Fish - 2021-08-11 1:41 PM

LaFrenger - 2021-08-10 10:25 PM
Goodrows contract is the cost of doing business.


I see it differently. I see the Goodrow signing as a high risk for a number of reasons:

If the Rangers were near to competing seriously for a Cup, then the one or two years you're likely to get out of him might make sense, by the time the team will be contenders, he'll be well past his prime.

The vast majority of forwards tend to peak around the time that UFA kicks in 27/28 and then drop off to varying degrees. You always have exceptions, look at Ovechkin for instance, but the majority tend to follow a quick rise upwards, only to peak and drop at this age. Goodrow playing a physical game, is at greater risk of dropping quicker and more sharply, as players of his ilk typically do. The Rangers might be able to get 1 ... maybe 2 years, but at that point the rest will probably be underperforming. He'll be an expensive fourth liner before you know it.

Whether he can perform without his partners Gourde and Coleman remains to be seen. Goodrow didn't emerge until he joined the Lightning, who got him cheap and paired him up in a way that made the most of his skills. By contrast it's not clear at this point who he'd play with on the team. Rooney and Barron might work, or perhaps Blais, Reaves or Hunt...but then you're really looking a t a 4th liner, rather than the third liner he's been promoted as.

Speaking of which, his offensive high is 7 goals...he had 6 in a shortened season last year, three of which were into an empty net. He's kind of like a slightly bigger version of Jed Ortmeyer in that respect

What Drury did with Goodrow is basically pay him for what he HAS done, versus what he likely will do with the Rangers.

He really needed to spend more effort trying to find a 25/26 year old guy (or perhaps younger) who could possibly evolve into Goodrow, rather than hope that he gets the exception to the rule in this one. A recent analysis I came across, found that only about 1 in 5 UFAs live up to their contract value in their FIRST year...after that it drops.

When it comes down to it, these types of roles you really have to rely on finding some diamonds in the coal. You have to go looking for the guys who haven't yet become that player, rather than paying the ones who have already done it, to try and do it again.

Of course there's the "appearance" of doing something, which is why teams get so much pressure from the media, fanbase etc to do SOMETHING on these days, and the tenure of a GM isn't often long enough for them to have to deal with the consequences. But as fans, we typically have a longer investment with a team and as such it ultimately impacts our happiness long after those who perpetrated it are gone.

Singularly the deals for Goodrow, Buchnevich and even the extension for Reaves are not fatal in and of themselves, but collectively they can have an impact. Next year there's going to be some serious challenges at one of the most important positions - center - where Strome and Zibanejad both become UFAs....assuming they're not gone before that. Gaining Eichel only partly solves the problem, with you having to either rely on Chytil to step up, or picking up someone else's unwanted player....because with $5.3M tied up in Reaves and Goodrow, you're not going to have those extra dollars to fix the center spot - or perhaps they can unload either of Kreider or Trouba.

Anyway, to me the Goodrow is not the "cost of doing business" but akin to betting a big chunk of money on a single number in roulette. You might win, but you're probably going to lose.



They were not going to get him any cheaper unless he didn’t sign with the Rangers, entered free agency and his market dried up, which I highly doubt. Hence the cost of doing business. In order to maximize the pick they traded for him, they had to sign him.
I’ve watched the Rangers for a very long time and I’ve seen this scenario a lot. They will never learn. Would have been a lot more productive to trade a d prospect and a little higher pick for a Goodrow type still on a entry level contract, if available. Then they go out and get Blais, Hunt, Reaves which almost makes Goodrow, mostly because of his contract unnecessary. Not to mention what Ritchie signed for in Toronto, who could have easily replaced Goodrow, and has a lot more skillful mitts. So ya I agree with you, but it was still the cost of business, they were not going to get him cheaper, and again I will say the Rangers jumped the gun on him, instead of maybe looking a little deeper for a cheaper body. I think Goodrow has got it to do here. He better show up with his hammer cocked.
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Fish
Posted 2021-08-12 10:04 AM (#780720 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread



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Yeah, I didn't expect them to get him cheaper, I expected them NOT to acquire and sign him. It's kind of like people who buy the latest Play Station or Xbox on eBay because they want it now. Just because it's the market value, it doesn't mean that you should do it.

I have less issue with overpaying Patrik Nemeth, I do with overpaying Goodrow and extending Reaves. While acquiring Reaves was comically predictable, the cost of a third rounder is not the worst, even if it's an overpay. Extending him another year though...that's foolish, and if it was the cost of acquiring him, then don't acquire him. The amount of games that Reaves is going to make a difference might be one or two in an 82 game season. Even still, it's not as predictably bad as the Goodrow deal, just kind of dumbish.

Gorton certainly wasn't perfect, the McDonagh/Miller trade and the signings of Trouba and Kreider all have a lengthy impact on the team, though in the case of McDonagh in particular, they also don't have his current contract and perhaps wouldn't have seen the emergence of Fox/Lindgren if he was still around. I admittedly was a bit ambivalent on the Kreider deal at the time, but I think we're getting a better perspective on these things operating under the cap, and to be honest if COVID hadn't happened, then Kreider/Trouba would be less impactful than they are now with the Cap having been projecting to be flat for all but the first and last years of those contracts.




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x10003q
Posted 2021-08-12 11:19 AM (#780722 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread




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Ritchie signed for 2 years 1.7/3.3 (2.5mill/year). He is only 25.
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LaFrenger
Posted 2021-08-12 11:41 AM (#780725 - in reply to #780722)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread





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x10003q - 2021-08-12 10:19 AM

Ritchie signed for 2 years 1.7/3.3 (2.5mill/year). He is only 25.




I don’t think it’s even a contest between Ritchie and Goodrow. Ritchie probably took less to play in Toronto so 2.5 mill per even for 3-4 years if he would have signed that, would have been a far better deal for the Rangers.
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x10003q
Posted 2021-08-12 12:48 PM (#780730 - in reply to #780725)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread




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LaFrenger - 2021-08-12 2:41 PM

x10003q - 2021-08-12 10:19 AM

Ritchie signed for 2 years 1.7/3.3 (2.5mill/year). He is only 25.




I don’t think it’s even a contest between Ritchie and Goodrow. Ritchie probably took less to play in Toronto so 2.5 mill per even for 3-4 years if he would have signed that, would have been a far better deal for the Rangers.


Yup. They fell hard for Goodrow. Too bad for the Rangers.
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Fish
Posted 2021-10-11 12:17 PM (#781291 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread



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Updated with the Zibanejad extension
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Av-merican
Posted 2021-10-13 2:26 PM (#781356 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread





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In the end, Drury will be hard to evaluate as a GM because unlike Gorton, I don't believe he's acting with a free hand. He has Dolan barking in his ear the whole time.

That said, I have my doubts. We'll see.
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itsmcilrathtime
Posted 2021-10-13 3:29 PM (#781361 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: RE: The Chris Drury Thread




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Gorton's idea of a team was a massive failure. Just look at the end of last season and the playoffs vs. the Canes.
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Fish
Posted 2021-11-01 3:58 PM (#782298 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread



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Updated with the Fox signing
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LaFrenger
Posted 2021-11-02 7:07 AM (#782304 - in reply to #780330)
Subject: Re: The Chris Drury Thread





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I don’t think Gorton should be judged to harshly at all. Clark being in charge of the draft yes and Bobrov who you can thank for Andersson, and Krapper more so. Evident by Drury gassing Bobrov early in his gig. Under Gorton’s watch for sure but scouts have to make some picks before you can judge them. I’m not so sure Gorton wouldn’t have cleaned up his staff if he would have been kept on.
Personally I think the Rangers were fine until Davidson came along, and between Gorton and Davidson they did basically nothing to improve the team a year ago last off season with the exception of Rooney and probably more luck than anything with Blackwell. Every body who watched a game of hockey knew the Rangers needed some bite and like it or not someone to go up against a Wilson and the Islander meatheads. And nothing was done and then deliberately expecting young kids to thrive in that atmosphere was beyond stupid. They both shot themselves in the foot. Drury has done a lot of good things, and I don’t believe he has Dolan sitting on his shoulder monitoring every move. He’s the President and G.M. which is more clout than Gorton had. Obviously Dolan is going to want to hear about a Fox contract, but I don’t think he’s to concerned about the day to day stuff.
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